New Ravidas Movement Dera Bhallan

[Guest GurdailS]

Gurdwara and Bhawan [That has the SGGS]? I do not know if there should be a difference as the SGGS should be treated equally in both places of worship especially if akhand path, ardas, asa di waar is taking place.

[Guest LionessUK]

OMG if the dera and UK temples are working with Nirankaris surely concerns must be raised. They are helping to divide the Sikh community.

[Guest AnonSikh]

Why was there no reference to the Sri Akhand Paath on Kanshi TV coverage for Guru Ravidas Birthday Celebrations?

The youtube coverage does not reference any Sikhi practices but the SGGS was present. It is Nirankari influenced no mention of Sikh at all. I would like to know what is the difference between Bhawan and Gurdwara also.

Also the number of politicians, did they attend to pay respects, to receive a trophy or opportunity to get more votes in the next elections?

These activities should be reported to the Sikh Council or other body. Also the Ravidassia times is really bad, whistle blowing?, we should be keeping an eye on them!

https://twitter.com/RavidassiaTimes

[sikhiseeker]

Guru Piare Sikhiseeker

Unfortunately the people that these people are being blinded by are using their affiliation to jaat, or a particular jaat and correlating this as a link between Bhagat Jis bani and a nation that Bhagat Ji never espoused as a nation, nor ever existed. They have fermented the hatred of prejudicial treatment that they received by some sections in society due to their jaat into a hatred of Sikhi. And groups opposed to Sikhi are using this hatred to ulterior motives, such as the Nirankari speaker in the video link Rankirini has kindly uploaded.

In reality, wider Sikh society accepted that mistakes were made and that is why the establishment of Bhagat Ravidas Gurdwaras etc was not opposed, similar in manner to the establishment of Black Led Churches by Christians of African/Carribean descent in the UK due to the discrimination they faced in the UK when they first arrived.

The problem as dass has understood from observation over recent times, is that with the development of a separation from mainstream Sikhi, core parchaar was compromised at these Gurdwaras and some people with political motives and personal vendettas and even hatreds, with newly found identity and pseudo-confidence in numbers, set up Bhawans etc instead of Gurdwaras, they adopted a separate nishaan, a separate Jaikara and started referring to Bhagat ji as Guru ji.

Unfortunately, with the vacuum in parchaar, others exploited the separation, and slowly the identity mushroomed into anything that was Ravidasi and not just Sikhi. Hence Ambedkar days being staged at these Gurdwaras, even though Ambedkar ji himself was a Buddhist. Similarly, a large proportion of this now 'caste' based Ravidasia community slowly entered into a following of RadhaSwami as well as other deras, including deras such as Dera Ballan including a sizeable denomination following Christianity.

Most of the Punjab based deras have though maintained links with mainstream Sikhi and resolutely stated that their first and foremost link is to Sikhi, and their reverence is to Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and have thus rejected the moves by dera Ballan to establish a pothi only containing Bhagat jis bani instead of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at Gurdwaras and Bhawans.

There are unfortunately those within the Ravidassia community, as it has now labeled itself, who have no respect for Sikhi, aren't Sikhs and have no linkage to Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, other than the fact that Bhagat Ji's bani forms part of the Ang of Guru Maharaj.

They now want to separate these banis from Bhagat ji as a reference to all of humanity, and stranglehold them into a separate entity. Conversely we have another enemy within in the guise of the Missionaries who want to extract all Bhagat banis from Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. All these people, in my opinion, don't have any spiritual base, but are either former naxal influenced communists who for decades wanted to vent their hatred to Sikhi, and like trojan horses or virus, have remained loosely connected to Sikh diaspora as predatory leaches waiting to exploit their narrow agendas.

We shouldn't despair as it is all in Guru Jis bhaana. If any objective comparison was made of the way people of different castes are treated in India in Punjab and other states, the comparison would be eyeopening. It is only due to the blessing of Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji that the Khalsa were created, Sahib Sri Gobind Singh ji created Sardars from peasants, (incidentally all these so called jaats were actually peasants- its is unfortunate that the tradition of kes and dastar hasn't been maintained in all sections of our society), Banda Singh Bahadur confiscated land from the Mughal aristocrats and Hindu Rajas and distributed land to all Sikhs, who regardless of their former jaat overnight had become Sardaars. This model isn't found in any other state.

People of peasant castes in other states are still unable to have landholdings, let alone have their own Gurdwaras or deras or mandirs of any religious denomination. That is why in Orissa Dalits who convert to Christianity are brutally murdered, their women stripped in public and their children whipped.

Yes, agreed things aren't perfect in Punjab, but Sikhs haven't been able to exert Sikh philosophy anywhere in its true form, not even in Punjab, In Punjab Amritdhari Sikhs across the board are persecuted; nearly a quarter of a million Sikhs have been exterminated in the past 3 decades. We can't have our own free press and media. And Sikhs remain a minority in every part of India including Punjab. So the remaining remnants of this social cancer of caste haven't been able to be addressed in the way shape or form that many practicing Sikhs would expect; the past 2 decades have simply a time for survival.

Bhai Beant Singh ji and Bhai Kehar Singh who were both responsible for avenging the assault on Sri Harmandir Sahib were mazbi Sikhs. And they along with Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh, with Maharaj kirpa, are responsible for restoring the dastar of the Sikhs after Operation Bluestar. It is a fact that when we remember Bhai Kehar Singh and Bhai Beant Singh their jaat is never brought into the equation, just as when Bibi Bimal Kaur Khalsa were elected as an MP post 1986. Lets celebrate these heroes wholeheartedly, and the more and more Gurdwaras that celebrate Bhagat Ravidas Ji's janam din and the days of other Bhagats, the less influence these trojans will be able to exert and their cause will die a death.

More importantly, lets remind all our brothers and sisters that they are equally worthy to receive Guru Ji's blessing of Amrit and share in the Sardari that He has blessed all His children with. This will be the biggest slap in the face of the haters and will develop lasting bonds with Guru Maharaj instead of superficial labels of Sikh nationhood.

Rab rakha

WJKK WJKF,

When people from this caste chak amrit as many other castes did, they were and still are continuously reminded of their pre-caste by people who call themselves sikhs. We talk about inter-faith marriage, yet within the so called mainstream society we still do not encourage marriage within sikh communities due to the wide spread belief of caste, everyone sticking to their own basically. When our panth is Nirmal and the khalsa is pure and equal, people who claim themselves to be sikh have never let other people from other heritages be equal. That is why these people after so many yaers of injustice have split, wrongly I agree, as it is not the religion which is at fault, however the ones who deem themselves to be religious.

So after all these years of people calling them chamars, even when they are amrit dhari, they have turned ther back to sikhi, instead of the people who claim falsely they are sikh. Now we are stating that people who are against the progression of sikhi like nirankaris are relating it to their caste? We as the sikh community did this, before anyone else and we still are to other communities. When ones caste is used in a derogatory manner, that community of people will then try and claim that term back, like how Our African brothers and sisters call one another "nig**r" also how Pakistani people refer themselves as "p*ki". When a chamar Chaks amrit, they should of been refered to as khalsa, not chamar sikh. Even today, a khalsa who was from mazabhi decent is still termed as a mazabhi sikh?

So again, my point is within mainstream sikhi, were great at giving caste references to our own fold and having the same hierarchy in western countries what stil exists in India. So we should look at what we do as a kaum and how far we take our sikhi, also the defamation of our faith we do within sikhi ourselves and asses our understanding of the equal, casteless, colourless, genderless Nirmal panth of shiri guru nanak dev ji.

The reason behind the people of India excepting amrit was the equality it offered under waheguru, this also being the reason why many from the Hindu faith converted to various other religions like Christianity and Islam to break their aste affiliation of the inequality of Hinduism.

sagal dhuaar ko shaadd kai gehiyo thuhaaro dhuaar | baahi gehae kee laaj as gobindh dhaas thuhaar |864|

O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864.

Unfortunately as the sikh kaum, we do not protect one another's honour, we now point fingers at others blaming them for the cracks we helped make.

WJKK WJKF

[Guest dasguruka]

Or maybe this is a play by Vaheguru. You know leading these people to follow a granth and when they're seeking spiritual fulfillment then they will come to know the authenticity of Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji and merge with Khalsa. Because leading them straight to SGGS hasn't been successful by either community. Who knows?

[Singh, Mahan]

There are allegations that in the “Amrit Bani Satguru Guru Ravidass" Granth, (except for the Shabads taken from SGGSji), the bani included is not of written by Bhagat Ravidass – as is being claimed. Most of that is written by Sant Hira Dass in early part of 20^th century when a large number of people started to rejoin Sikhism under the influence Singh Sabha movement. In mid to late nineteenth century (in 1800s) after the fall of Sikh Raj, the Engllish handed over the control of Gurdwaras (Dharmsalas and Deras) to Mahants. The Mahants and other high Caste Sikhs often discriminated against the Sikhs who came from” low caste” background. . So those who were labeled as “lower caste” Sikhs started to leave Sikhism. The Singh Sabha movement reversed that trend. At that time many individuals started to write in support of what was in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Sant Hira Dass was one of those personalities.

Below is the news article from the Dera which is the custodian of poetry / bani of Sant Hira Dass. They claim that a large amount of the bani that is included in “Amrit Bani” Granth is the writings of Sant Hira Dass and not of Bhagat Ravidas ji

Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mahant-moves-HC-against-Dera-Ballan-over-Amrit-Bani-row/articleshow/19719405.cms

Mahant moves HC against Dera Ballan over Amrit Bani row

JALANDHAR: Differences within the Ravidassia community have taken another twist with a Phagwara-based one-and-a-half century-old dera of the community moving the Punjab and Haryana high court, alleging that Dera Ballan indulged in plagiarism while preparing "Amrit Bani Satguru Guru Ravidass" Granth, as it announced founding of a separate religion - Ravidassia-- in January 2010.

Mahant Parshotam Lal, who heads Dehra Shri Guru Ravidass Mandir Chak Hakim, Phagwara, in his petition in the HC has also made Punjab government, Jalandhar commissioner of police and Dera Ballan head Sant Niranjan dass and his aide Sant Surinder Dass Bawa as respondents.

The petitioner alleged that the verses contained in this "Amirtbani" Granth were not of Guru Ravidass, as projected by Dera Ballan, but were authored by Sant Hira Dass in his over-a-century-old "Shri Ravidass Deep" Granth. Parshotam Lal is a descendant of Sant Hira Dass, who established Dehra Guru Ravidass Mandir Chak Hakim in the 19th century.

Claiming that "Ravidass Deep Granth" was completed by Sant Hira Dass in 1908 in his own handwriting and got it first published in 1912, Parshotam Lal alleged that a good part of the verses were copied by Dera Sachkhand Ballan while preparing Amrit Bani Granth, after striking off the name of Sant Hira Dass contained in them, projecting them as that of Guru Ravidass.

He alleged that Mangla Charan, Baran Mah, 46 Shabads and 105 Shaloks were copied almost ditto, except the name of Sant Hira Dass.

Lal also alleged in the petition that after he held a press conference on March 1, he had been receiving threats and had been termed "Gadaar" (traitor) by the Dera and its supporters even on social media.

He also alleged that he had complained to police on March 3 last, but no action was taken on his complaint.

The petition also claimed that scholars of the community had confirmed that the compositions contained in the Amrit Bani Granth were not of Guru Ravidass.

[Guest JSK88]

Just let them be, these are not the sort of people you want to be picking fights with that is why the Gurus had them in their armies, there is no need to monitoring them or report them to Sikh Council as this would get us no where. They would tell the Sikh Council where to go no doubt as they are not Sikh. Look at how quickly and single handedly they shut down Punjab after the assassination in Austria.

If we have love for Ravidas ji then surely having good neighbours who also believe in Ravidas ji is not so bad, a much preferable situation this than having athiests, christian missionaries, etc

[Guest NYSingh]

Dear All

Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the focal point for worship at Sri Guru Ravidas Gurdwara in New York, America.

https://edblogs.columbia.edu/reliw4215-001-2013-3/the-sri-guru-ravidas-sabha/

Our New York sangat is one and united to Sikhi.

There is no place for Dera Bhallan and their twisted beliefs in our Gurdwara.

Sangat should be one and not divided.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wah Guru Ji Ki Fateh

[Guest LionessUK]

This is not right at all. Sri Akhand Paath was used as a vehicle to hold a meeting about ravidassia census separating from Sikh community.

See poster posted on ravidassiatimes twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/ravidassiatimes/status/429014280873066496

[Guest tweetsingh]

This twitter feed is against sikhi calling us names such as terrorists and disrespecting sri guru granth sahib ji.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RavidassiaTimes/tweets