Sansahar Sukhmana

[BarinderSingh]

Sampardas Gursikhs saw Gurbani as unique and vedas as no where close to Gurbani. Vedas writer was not able to comprehend Vaheguru while writing the vedas and niether could he after. Framework of vedas is based on finite knowledge. Framework of Gurbani is based on infinite knowledge. Framework of Gurbani is the Guru in all his forms. Vedas is a collection of doubt, misunderstanding, ignorance, and ego.

Vedas is written by a devta fighting with Vaheguru trying to understand Vaheguru but ends up revering maya. The creater of vedas is struggling to understand creation. Gurbani framework is no struggle to understand but to show the way.

[BarinderSingh]

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥

ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥

Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them.

ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥

जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥

Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19.

[T_Singh]

Could NeoSingh be the infamous 'Jasminder' that phones up BBC Asian Network Nihals radio show and tells lies about Sikhi Gurmat and great gursikhs???

[Bijla Singh]

Barinderpal Singh (neo n30), without providing any hard evidence you cannot be taken seriously. And what is all the fuss about? That I posted a link to interpretation you find hard to swallow? Such hypocrisy and ironic considering that you believe Gurbani has unlimited meanings. The interpretation I wrote is based on my experience and why cant this be right? So far and in the past so many years not once have you provided any logical refutation. All you do is throw the name of Sant Ji but you know what, Sant Ji never spoke like you do and he always exhibited Gursikh qualities in his deed and thought. You are a black spot to true sampardaic traditions. If you feel I am wrong in Gurbani interpretation then be a man and refute it with reasoning. I am sure your nirgun/sargun, transcendence experience would have no problem in defeating limited puny grammar.

You are taking one line out of the whole debate and putting it out of context. Hindus believe in Hanuman and Ganesha. Hanuman is a monkey God and Ganesha does ride a mouse according to Hinduism. How is this hatred? There is nothing insulting in calling spade a spade as you put it. And why are you keep harping over fascism? Do you really know what fascism is? I have asked for proofs multiple times but you havent been able to provide any so far. I guess lying is another one of your attributes.

Then you get too personal over the old issue of me trying to get you banned. Believe me, if I wanted to ban you I would have and I had all the access. Your posts in this thread are a proof of the reasons. I am not afraid to debate you but I have grown up from childish bickering and am mature enough to debate according to the rules of logic which you do not know squat about. On your own forum you made a remark that you could get back on sikhsangat through the back door if you wanted but you did not want to go back. As soon as you found (through my revelation) that I had quit the moderating team, you literally begged through SunSingh for the moderation to be lifted. Little did you know that I still had access to the moderator forum at the time. What a man of word you are.

Again I find it ironic that you scream about fascism on this forum yet run off to your own cave (forum) to discuss Indian Fascism article I wrote a while back. Not a single member of your forum has provided any evidence to refute Indian Fascism. You are all the same. When you have no evidence, you resort to personal attacks. Vitanda Vaad is all you know. It is a shame on all those who speak against Khalistan after all the suffering we have gone through. If a persons spirit doesnt get kindled after knowing the horrors of 1984, November genocide and how our women were dishonored in the streets and a decade long systematic liquidation, he/she is not a Sikh.

[N30S1NGH]

Barinderpal Singh (neo n30), without providing any hard evidence you cannot be taken seriously. And what is all the fuss about? That I posted a link to interpretation you find hard to swallow? Such hypocrisy and ironic considering that you believe Gurbani has unlimited meanings. The interpretation I wrote is based on my experience and why cant this be right? So far and in the past so many years not once have you provided any logical refutation. All you do is throw the name of Sant Ji but you know what, Sant Ji never spoke like you do and he always exhibited Gursikh qualities in his deed and thought. You are a black spot to true sampardaic traditions. If you feel I am wrong in Gurbani interpretation then be a man and refute it with reasoning. I am sure your nirgun/sargun, transcendence experience would have no problem in defeating limited puny grammar.

Bijla Singh aka Sikh answers,

Your one liner black/white/abhramic interpretations causes all kind of theological issues which is not consistent with gurbani overall position held on vedas, may be you are too blind with hatred to see it or not qualified to understand common relationship with gurmat.

Regarding my refutation, i have already provided it just to break it down to you, there are three layers of vedas- karam, upasana, gyan-science of unity soul..Karam and upasana are different both gyan science of soul/unity whole framework (four states, rajo, tamo, sato, five elements, mind, bliss, antish karan, sakhsi, jot saroop)-NAAM/turiya - gyan layer of both gurbani and vedas are same. Hence, why you cannot reject it in its totality so your interpretations is rejecting gurbani overall position held of vedas as well.

Read sooraj parkash granth by kavi singh santokh for maha vaks from vedas - science of soul- vedant.

If you must think your interpretation is gospel truth then too comparative study of gurbani - japji sahib/shalok nauvan/gyan parbodh/akaal ustat/jaap sahib/sukhmani sahib with vedas -vedant-gyan chapter, you will notice essence teaching gyan-NAAM are same.

At that point if you have any ounce of integrity /sincerity/zeemar without any hindu phobia, preconceived/ preconditioning or unbias left in you - you will not reject the evidence and you prefer to learn and grown from it, from wisdom - essence of gurbani and vedas than stop hiding your insecurity/fascist ideology, stop using Gurbani for your insecure agenda.

You are taking one line out of the whole debate and putting it out of context. Hindus believe in Hanuman and Ganesha. Hanuman is a monkey God and Ganesha does ride a mouse according to Hinduism. How is this hatred? There is nothing insulting in calling spade a spade as you put it. And why are you keep harping over fascism? Do you really know what fascism is? I have asked for proofs multiple times but you havent been able to provide any so far. I guess lying is another one of your attributes.

You are systematically demonizing hindus and you know it, you are now being too coward to admit your own hate bias. Both arya samaj and hostile factions of singh sabha british reformist movements have ideologies which is not aligned with old traditional gurmat framework as it has protestant christian british influenced framework than traditional gurmat framework which is multi aspect of Nirankar- Akaal purkh...for eg-creation reality in gurbani its both meta reality- gurbani supports both creation came from shabad and creation came from khanda- aad shakti)

Here is definition of fascist:

fas·cism

ˈfaSHˌizəm/Submit

noun

1.

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

Any learned gyani who has spent 10-20 years research after looking at your website, can conclude you are affected with fascist narcissistic self righteous authoritarian right wing syndrome which mind you if it makes you feel better you are not the only one and is not on a personal level its reformist ideology i was pointing to which you are attached to.

My last post on this. I m done with this thread as its about to start to take toll on my gurbani quest.

[DSGj]

Could NeoSingh be the infamous 'Jasminder' that phones up BBC Asian Network Nihals radio show and tells lies about Sikhi Gurmat and great gursikhs???

Barinderpal Singh (neo n30), without providing any hard evidence you cannot be taken seriously. And what is all the fuss about? That I posted a link to interpretation you find hard to swallow? Such hypocrisy and ironic considering that you believe Gurbani has unlimited meanings. The interpretation I wrote is based on my experience and why cant this be right? So far and in the past so many years not once have you provided any logical refutation. All you do is throw the name of Sant Ji but you know what, Sant Ji never spoke like you do and he always exhibited Gursikh qualities in his deed and thought. You are a black spot to true sampardaic traditions. If you feel I am wrong in Gurbani interpretation then be a man and refute it with reasoning. I am sure your nirgun/sargun, transcendence experience would have no problem in defeating limited puny grammar.

You are taking one line out of the whole debate and putting it out of context. Hindus believe in Hanuman and Ganesha. Hanuman is a monkey God and Ganesha does ride a mouse according to Hinduism. How is this hatred? There is nothing insulting in calling spade a spade as you put it. And why are you keep harping over fascism? Do you really know what fascism is? I have asked for proofs multiple times but you havent been able to provide any so far. I guess lying is another one of your attributes.

Then you get too personal over the old issue of me trying to get you banned. Believe me, if I wanted to ban you I would have and I had all the access. Your posts in this thread are a proof of the reasons. I am not afraid to debate you but I have grown up from childish bickering and am mature enough to debate according to the rules of logic which you do not know squat about. On your own forum you made a remark that you could get back on sikhsangat through the back door if you wanted but you did not want to go back. As soon as you found (through my revelation) that I had quit the moderating team, you literally begged through SunSingh for the moderation to be lifted. Little did you know that I still had access to the moderator forum at the time. What a man of word you are.

Again I find it ironic that you scream about fascism on this forum yet run off to your own cave (forum) to discuss Indian Fascism article I wrote a while back. Not a single member of your forum has provided any evidence to refute Indian Fascism. You are all the same. When you have no evidence, you resort to personal attacks. Vitanda Vaad is all you know. It is a shame on all those who speak against Khalistan after all the suffering we have gone through. If a persons spirit doesnt get kindled after knowing the horrors of 1984, November genocide and how our women were dishonored in the streets and a decade long systematic liquidation, he/she is not a Sikh.

T_Singh Jee and Bijla Singh Jee,

NeoSingh has a special 'investigative' report coming out soon, which he has been making for months/years, and he is going to hand it in to all levels of police in Canada including RCMP as well as international agencies and also national media outlets like BBC.

LOL!!!

And then we get this news over here:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/74195-indian-agent-charged-with-spying-on-sikh-organization-in-germany/

And Neo comments:

"Picture? I have a feeling it's some right wing hardcore nut bar luring innocent sikhs to get them back listed. There is no other way can infiltrate in to sikh community or any community.. How do I have this feeling? Try your self - Play devils advocate or read life's of CIA whistle blowers."

Seems like Neo has experience, lol.

NeoSingh/Barinder Singh,

it is against forum rules to have multiple profiles. You have stooped down to the level of GurdeepSinghJohal, Neeldhari supporter and others on this forum who desperately make multiple I.D's to support their own posts.

Even I didn't make a new I.D. when I got banned without any reason for many months due to your lies.

Get real...

[N30S1NGH]

T_Singh Jee and Bijla Singh Jee,

NeoSingh has a special 'investigative' report coming out soon, which he has been making for months/years, and he is going to hand it in to all levels of police in Canada including RCMP as well as international agencies and also national media outlets like BBC.

LOL!!!

Actually it was meant to handed sikh organizations for review including WSO but no need anymore, its pretty self evident to be picked up by anyone, its soo embarrassing that one cannot even down play it ...most of sikh inter bickering community issues are self inflicted, some tribal sikh groups have serious problems with integration with wider egalitarian western values which is compatible over gurbani message -of freedom of speech, freedom of liberty, equal rights for humanity, so far they have segregated themselves in ghetto causing all kind of tribal issues in the community. tribal ghettoism/segregation issues/exclusiveness/start living in their own tight knit amish/jevoh/mormon type of community -living tight knight all that is fine if they do their own thing and have basic intergration, they- sikh youth tribal groups don't,they instead act like hostile tribal groups want hostile take over rest of sikh community and they intimidate/demonize/marginalize aam admi sikh who don't agree with their idealogy,thats where people need to step up and set the record straight to these people if their loyalities of being canadian/uk/american is less than their tribal ghetto attachment than kindly stop double dipping in generous western system and take a next flight back to your imaginary banana republic..!!!

[Bijla Singh]

I have not read Gyan Parbodh but I have studied other Banis by Guru’s Kirpa and I came to the irrefutable conclusion that Gurmat is unique and far above Vedas. Vedas are not revealed but Gurbani is. Vedas are stuck in maya but Gurbani is free from it. I have read works of Hindu scholars on Six Hindu Systems and while they are in variant with each other in terms of reality, knowledge, goal, moksha, creation and eternality they are all different fundamentally from Gurmat. Sure there are similarities to some extent but Gurmat by far exceeds them in presenting the absolute truth and remains unique.

Vedas used to be three initially and much later a fourth one was added. At that time Vedas were nothing more than animal and human sacrifice, yantra/mantra tantrum, worshipping idols and numerous gods/goddesses and women having sex with horses etc. According to Swami Dharma Teertha, Upnishads were written by Kshatriyas to counter Brahmins but latter eventually won over the political supremacy and incorporated Upnishads with Vedas. Vedas advocating multi-god worship, absolute Nirgun, Omnipresent reality, prakriti and purusha being two eternal realities and having no God at all are all contradictory beliefs. So how can a serious student ever consider Vedas to possess the same essence as Gurbani? It is not possible. Picking and choosing one chapter alone does not justify it at all.

Yet again you did not prove how the interpretation I provided is wrong. Just because there are three layers of Vedas as you claim, it doesn’t de facto prove me wrong. I believe Gurmat is superior to others and if this means bias to you then I am biased towards the truth. I cannot hold any other philosophy at par with the truth revealed in Gurbani. This doesn’t make me “hindu phobic”.

Also, you only provided a dictionary definition of fascism. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. I am not an authoritarian government nor a social organization and I am also not part of any. Singh Sabha was a religious revival organization that did not advocate politics at all. So how was it or I am fascist? What you need to prove is how I have elements of fascism in me which you have utterly failed in. It is easy to play the blame game but without providing any evidence you will end up running every time.

I want to iterate although it may not carry any weight for you that I do not hate Hindus or their philosophies. I do not have anything against you personally. I simply oppose anti-Sikhi elements and individuals which you misconstrue as hateful. I do not wish to brainwash anyone. I only share the information I get from books written by gursikhs and no one is compelled to agree with me. Regardless, my mind stays peaceful with Naam.

[N30S1NGH]

We both agree gurbani is supreme over all previous vedas because its nirole gurbani-dhur ki bani - aad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach nanak hosi bhi sach, and its without any useless rituals,.

But that does not make vedas false (as it also has same essence message at the end gyan naam layer), vedas cannot be outright rejected or called false , as it shares common nirole gyan-turiya, science of atma-paratma ekta framework-gyan aspect within gurmat pointing towards same absolute reality- Turiya...!!!

Example

(OM - four states (Rajo, tamo, sato, turiya- jagarath, suopan, sukhopat, chautapad turiya) in vedas, OAN (Rajo, tamo, sato, turiya- jagarath, suopan, sukhopat, chautapad- turiya in gurbani.)

If you are unbias as you claim to be, sooner or later you will realize that. It be high unlikely in conceptual thesis/studies as you may have already have preconceived/pre-conditioning notions/bias build up around you on vedas, it be most likely in experience if you allow it.

As always i will let reader decide for themselves...Enjoy..!!

[Bijla Singh]

Just to clarify, I am not sikh answers. The website is not mine and the id on your forum was not registered by me.