Quit Meat Stop Wearing Or Made From Animal Parts?

[savinderpalsingh]

Jeet ji. I will inbox you . rather then posting here and becoming a war veg vs meat .

[sikhiseeker]

When you eat meat you have interrupted the flow of karma of the animal. The killer, the skinner, the butcher, the chef and the eater all bear responsibility and will take on the karma of the animal. You will have to answer for your actions when you pass over to the other side, and all the animals you have eaten will demand justice !!!!

Sikhs of old were all vegies. The langar has always been veggie. This has nothing to do with some sections being veggie so the langar had to be veggie. It has to do with the fact that Gurus were vegetarian and so the langar was exclusively veggie. We follow Guru not manmat.

This is not the same as wering leather shoes etc, although it is advisable to not wear these items abd seek alternatives.

WJKK WJKF

If I was a sikh and a soldier serving for example within the British Armed Forces and I was serving in Afghanistan. If I was to kill another human within the grounds of my duty, why would be the result of my karma for killing another human being due to man made political situations?

I Look forward reading your reply!

WJKK WJKF

[Bundha]

We endlessly debate issues and we start going down to minute detail (in essence there is nothing wrong in that), what if this, what if that, what if the other, what we forget, conveniently, is to actually walk the walk.

For God sake guys, WALK the WALK. Do it! Get that simran going, get that naam going, see Akaal in EVERYONE, forget the naffrat, the vheer, the viroodh, love God, love Him like your life depended on it. And you know what, Guru Ji will assist you in all things, all these questions that your maan sprouts up to distract you, all will become shaant, all will become peaceful and then you will know the truth. But all we do is argue and argue, we never go near the practical.

It is like the group of guys who were arguing, one side saying mool mantar completes at jap, while the other argued it completed at Nanak Hosi Bhi satch. Some one asked , you have been arguing for an hour now, which of you actually does any simran to Jap or to Nanak hosi bhi satch ? None spoke.

Okay, firstly, we will have to answer for every action we take, every action. All is being recorded as we speak. We have devices now that record our every move and we upload to the net. Those souls in Dhargah, are a thousand times wiser then those on earth, their devices are not physical but they record everything none the less. Yes, we will have to answer for our meat eating and sharaab drinking and leering and swearing and mouthing off. Also if animals suffer then we are all responsible. All that suffering gets distributed and we all get a share. Why are none of us happy any more? Why do we suffer from new and chronic illnesses? why are our relationships with those around us going down the drain? Loomk around you people bombing their own, atrocities , so much why? because we are all paying for our misdeeds here right now. And then we will be judged what is left over, and boy is there some left over! What ever we eat if it is has bad stuff in it, if the animal suffered then yes we will pay, we are paying. This jaggat is jallandha - on fire!

Meat eaters are the same, overweight full or cholesterol, most meat eaters drink with big barrel tummies.

When you become a soldier you take an oath to fight for your country. This oath is not new, this oath or similar type has been going on for time immemorial . This oath is sacred, in the olden times from Mahabharat , the fighting caste took it as a sign of honour and this is recognised in dhargah. You fight and you kill because that is your duty. As a soldier it is your duty to fight. Bhagwan Krishan Ji gives this lesson to Arjan in mid battle - it is your duty to fight and if necessary, to die in battle. You cannot influence decisions that politicians make, your duty is that when you are called to fight you fight.

[jeetnijjar]

We endlessly debate issues and we start going down to minute detail (in essence there is nothing wrong in that), what if this, what if that, what if the other, what we forget, conveniently, is to actually walk the walk.

For God sake guys, WALK the WALK. Do it! Get that simran going, get that naam going, see Akaal in EVERYONE, forget the naffrat, the vheer, the viroodh, love God, love Him like your life depended on it. And you know what, Guru Ji will assist you in all things, all these questions that your maan sprouts up to distract you, all will become shaant, all will become peaceful and then you will know the truth. But all we do is argue and argue, we never go near the practical.

It is like the group of guys who were arguing, one side saying mool mantar completes at jap, while the other argued it completed at Nanak Hosi Bhi satch. Some one asked , you have been arguing for an hour now, which of you actually does any simran to Jap or to Nanak hosi bhi satch ? None spoke.

Okay, firstly, we will have to answer for every action we take, every action. All is being recorded as we speak. We have devices now that record our every move and we upload to the net. Those souls in Dhargah, are a thousand times wiser then those on earth, their devices are not physical but they record everything none the less. Yes, we will have to answer for our meat eating and sharaab drinking and leering and swearing and mouthing off. Also if animals suffer then we are all responsible. All that suffering gets distributed and we all get a share. Why are none of us happy any more? Why do we suffer from new and chronic illnesses? why are our relationships with those around us going down the drain? Loomk around you people bombing their own, atrocities , so much why? because we are all paying for our misdeeds here right now. And then we will be judged what is left over, and boy is there some left over! What ever we eat if it is has bad stuff in it, if the animal suffered then yes we will pay, we are paying. This jaggat is jallandha - on fire!

Meat eaters are the same, overweight full or cholesterol, most meat eaters drink with big barrel tummies.

When you become a soldier you take an oath to fight for your country. This oath is not new, this oath or similar type has been going on for time immemorial . This oath is sacred, in the olden times from Mahabharat , the fighting caste took it as a sign of honour and this is recognised in dhargah. You fight and you kill because that is your duty. As a soldier it is your duty to fight. Bhagwan Krishan Ji gives this lesson to Arjan in mid battle - it is your duty to fight and if necessary, to die in battle. You cannot influence decisions that politicians make, your duty is that when you are called to fight you fight.

[sikhiseeker]

We endlessly debate issues and we start going down to minute detail (in essence there is nothing wrong in that), what if this, what if that, what if the other, what we forget, conveniently, is to actually walk the walk.

For God sake guys, WALK the WALK. Do it! Get that simran going, get that naam going, see Akaal in EVERYONE, forget the naffrat, the vheer, the viroodh, love God, love Him like your life depended on it. And you know what, Guru Ji will assist you in all things, all these questions that your maan sprouts up to distract you, all will become shaant, all will become peaceful and then you will know the truth. But all we do is argue and argue, we never go near the practical.

> I fully understand your point, but for some it is harder than others to "walk the walk". The connection with our sat guru and parmatama is all on a individual bases. We cannot judge someone if they are not doing what we are. As we may fail at any time and they may succeed at any time. I think it's better to simply keep your own Mann in check than judge what the next person is doing.

It is like the group of guys who were arguing, one side saying mool mantar completes at jap, while the other argued it completed at Nanak Hosi Bhi satch. Some one asked , you have been arguing for an hour now, which of you actually does any simran to Jap or to Nanak hosi bhi satch ? None spoke.

> agreed! All gurbani is Sargun roop of Akal purakh waheguru, one bani is no less or more to the next bani.

Okay, firstly, we will have to answer for every action we take, every action. All is being recorded as we speak. We have devices now that record our every move and we upload to the net. Those souls in Dhargah, are a thousand times wiser then those on earth, their devices are not physical but they record everything none the less. Yes, we will have to answer for our meat eating and sharaab drinking and leering and swearing and mouthing off. Also if animals suffer then we are all responsible. All that suffering gets distributed and we all get a share. Why are none of us happy any more? Why do we suffer from new and chronic illnesses? why are our relationships with those around us going down the drain? Loomk around you people bombing their own, atrocities , so much why? because we are all paying for our misdeeds here right now. And then we will be judged what is left over, and boy is there some left over! What ever we eat if it is has bad stuff in it, if the animal suffered then yes we will pay, we are paying. This jaggat is jallandha - on fire!

>> I agree, our actions are recorded by Chith and guphat, however on all our actions, not just meat eating...all issues which derive from the five vices which then will make the document on to which we will be judged.

Meat eaters are the same, overweight full or cholesterol, most meat eaters drink with big barrel tummies.

>> Disagree, a big generalisation their for a huge, massive number if people, however I can only talk for myself and I am none of the above mentioned.

When you become a soldier you take an oath to fight for your country. This oath is not new, this oath or similar type has been going on for time immemorial . This oath is sacred, in the olden times from Mahabharat , the fighting caste took it as a sign of honour and this is recognised in dhargah. You fight and you kill because that is your duty. As a soldier it is your duty to fight. Bhagwan Krishan Ji gives this lesson to Arjan in mid battle - it is your duty to fight and if necessary, to die in battle. You cannot influence decisions that politicians make, your duty is that when you are called to fight you fight.

>>> agree, the oath of a soldier has been taken since time, however I do not understand how you describe it as "sacred" as you yourself have stated that in essence, a soldier is just there to kill on order! So how can this based on man made political agenders and situations be "sacred" if it results inevitably in the bloodshed of soldiers and civilians over maya? How can you call this "sacred" and then slander the meat eater? Krishna counselled Arjan as he found it difficult to commit the ultimate act of what he was meant to do as a soldier, kill other human beings, this war was fought for again, power and rule? How is that "sacred" and justified? It is only the fauj of Akal purakh waheguru, the Khalsa fauj what does not fight for maya. The oath if the Khalsa is the only real "sacred" oath.

I support all my sikh brothers and sisters who wish to be vegetarian and vegan, however I don't appreciate then to be told I am commiting kurehat, as it is important for the vegetarian and vegan sikh to remember if the wish not to consume meat, then the question arises around the use of it's by products. As you stated, the slaughterer of the animal, the butcherer of the meat, the consumer of the meat will all have a percentage of bad karam on the death of this animal, however you forgot about the user of the by product! The tabla/nagara/sarangi master in the gurus divan, the Amrit Chak sister who plasters her face with animal fat (make up) over her lips and in her eyes, the person who has ill health and consumes medication which contains animal by products, the sikh who carries their Kirpan in a leather sheath.......the list goes on, lol! So do you think, as a vegetarian it is then ok to use the by product of an animal, because someone else had done the dirty work for you (the killing) and it's not your paap?

The sikh who performs jhatka and consumes the animal and uses all it's carcass within their own home is very different to the mass meat market around the world. These are two separate issues.

When you perform jhatka, the animal does not die. That's a very semetical viewpoint, the nirgun/Sargun roop of Akal purakh cannot die, the ruu of the animal simply moves on, the Mann leaves the tann, the tann merges back with the living body of another living tann as nourishment and the mann moves forward.

The statements you have made as fact can be questioned by sikh ithiaas, sikh granths and the Akal takhat maryada. If a sikh should not eat meat, then let's all go to the Akal takhat and get the rehat maryada mended so no one then has to question this practice.

I believe in one maryada for all, but have no problem with my vegetarian and vegan brothers and sisters. As one day we may have to stand on a battlefield and take up arms as once our shaheed Singh and singhnia have done and kill the opposing army, as the gurus Khalsa!

WJKK WJKF

[jeetnijjar]

The jokes will never stop Everyone's entitled to their own opinion

No wonder Guru Nanak Dev Ji Said

Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhagre"

The Guru is addressing a Vaishnav Pandit who believes that he can achieve Nirvana (a state of liberation) only by avoiding meat as food and not trying to obtain the true wisdom through meditation. The Guru has stressed that only avoiding meat will not lead one to the achievement of Spiritual Bliss.

Millions of cows, pigs, sheep, and goats are slaughtered for their skin every year. They are castrated, branded, and dehorned and have their tails dockedall without anesthetics. Then they are trucked to slaughter, bled to death, and skinned for us my personal opinion we all have to pay either u veggie or meat lover one thing we all can do Do not buy clothing made from down or animal feathers or anything have to do with animals for the veggies out there

Going veggi means celebrating animals by not wearing them and eating only delicious meals that are free of animal products. If you quit meat long time ago you can also stop wearing clothes that has something to do with animals

[jeetnijjar]

We endlessly debate issues and we start going down to minute detail (in essence there is nothing wrong in that), what if this, what if that, what if the other, what we forget, conveniently, is to actually walk the walk.

For God sake guys, WALK the WALK. Do it! Get that simran going, get that naam going, see Akaal in EVERYONE, forget the naffrat, the vheer, the viroodh, love God, love Him like your life depended on it. And you know what, Guru Ji will assist you in all things, all these questions that your maan sprouts up to distract you, all will become shaant, all will become peaceful and then you will know the truth. But all we do is argue and argue, we never go near the practical.

It is like the group of guys who were arguing, one side saying mool mantar completes at jap, while the other argued it completed at Nanak Hosi Bhi satch. Some one asked , you have been arguing for an hour now, which of you actually does any simran to Jap or to Nanak hosi bhi satch ? None spoke.

Okay, firstly, we will have to answer for every action we take, every action. All is being recorded as we speak. We have devices now that record our every move and we upload to the net. Those souls in Dhargah, are a thousand times wiser then those on earth, their devices are not physical but they record everything none the less. Yes, we will have to answer for our meat eating and sharaab drinking and leering and swearing and mouthing off. Also if animals suffer then we are all responsible. All that suffering gets distributed and we all get a share. Why are none of us happy any more? Why do we suffer from new and chronic illnesses? why are our relationships with those around us going down the drain? Loomk around you people bombing their own, atrocities , so much why? because we are all paying for our misdeeds here right now. And then we will be judged what is left over, and boy is there some left over! What ever we eat if it is has bad stuff in it, if the animal suffered then yes we will pay, we are paying. This jaggat is jallandha - on fire!

Meat eaters are the same, overweight full or cholesterol, most meat eaters drink with big barrel tummies.

When you become a soldier you take an oath to fight for your country. This oath is not new, this oath or similar type has been going on for time immemorial . This oath is sacred, in the olden times from Mahabharat , the fighting caste took it as a sign of honour and this is recognised in dhargah. You fight and you kill because that is your duty. As a soldier it is your duty to fight. Bhagwan Krishan Ji gives this lesson to Arjan in mid battle - it is your duty to fight and if necessary, to die in battle. You cannot influence decisions that politicians make, your duty is that when you are called to fight you fight.

[jeetnijjar]

Sorry but I dont get it either you are against animal cruetly or you are not And being vegetarian is NOT against animal cruelty. Ever see those battery cages those hens are kept in yeah go ahead and enjoy that omelette. Being vegan on the other hand, is NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS OR BY-PRODUCTS THAT is to be totally against cruetly to animals. And unfortunately, Im not sure that being vegan or vegetarian is saving any animals there is more meat thrown away in this so called America than you can imagine.

I have to disagree with those who insist that being vegan refers to people who exclude all food and medicine products with trace amounts of animal products. Certainly I would agree to sign a petition so that pharmaceutical and food companies make a full disclosure of ingredients and provide 100 percent vegan alternatives

You people who take the hard line do you have ANY idea what you sound like to newcomers?

I see with this entire discussion is the constant insistence on titles. Being a vegetarian is about not eating meat, not lording it over a waiter or a friend or a stranger. The obsession with being able to call myself a shakahari is missing the entire point. It took me several years to get over the fear that I would call myself a vegetarian and then accidentally ingest some small amount of meat and be called out on it.. Now that I am a vegetarian, I decided to test out being a vegan for a while. When I mentioned my plan to a friend, her first comment was, well, TECHNICALLY, you shouldnt be wearing those clothes if you were a TRUE vegan..

Can we clear this up for once and for all? Please? Girls shouldn't wear make up we shouldn't eat or wear animal products this is what I would call

True veggie

Our brains can only hold so much info. The long list of animal ingredients takes up valuable space! It

[Bundha]

Being part of the Khalsa is another form of Hunkaar - I / me am part of the Khalsa!

No my friend, be the lowest of the low, don't even consider yourself as part of the Khalsa. Khalsa is so spiritually elevated , we are not worthy. How can I, with all my shortfalls, be part of such a brother/sister hood?

You think that only those in the Khalsa are liberated in battle? Those who fight on the battlefield on both sides are part of the kshattri tradition, all become shaheed (and I am not talking about the ISIS types!) Those who fought against the Sikhs in full battle were also called Soormay by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Guru Ji praised all who fought in battle. Guru Ji praised the Sikhs and Guru Ji praised the enemy who fought fiercely and bravely. Were they fighting a just war? They were fighting against Guru Ji, yet Guru Ji in all his glory saw the bravery in them also. In Chandi Dhi Vaar, Guru Ji even praises the dhents (demons) who fought bravely.

We need to get over ourselves; Khalsa is just the fist step. Khalsa is not the only one who gets entry into Satch Khand!

I do no comdemn or look down on anyone, we all make our life choices and live by them. We are all on a path, no one is higher or lower, but all points of view need to be put forward so that in the end no one can say "I didn't know."

I think you misunderstand me (or my post was so muddled it didn't make any sense), all are tainted with karam and that includes the veggies and vegans. If the animal has suffered , if its atma suffered then whoever comes into contact with it or with its byproducts accumulates some karma. If you are not into naam simran and you have no time to develop your spirituality so that your mind tunes itself to the vibrations of the Shabad that permeates from the beginning of time, then it matters not whether you consume meat or not because meat "weighs" heavily on the soul, it will not let you do simran, it deadens the atam.

The statements I have made are a viewpoint it is up to you whether you accept or not, that is your purrative. If you take the opposing view I hold no grudge but all I will say is that if you ask any ,any spiritually elevated soul and ALL will warn you of the consequences of eating meat. It is our arrogance and our reluctance for change that stops us from moving forward.

Wouldn't it be great if there was one rehat maryada and everything was so clear cut and we didn't have to think or have any convictions or faith all we needed to do was follow the rehat and all would be fine. Well nothing is clear and for good reason. For it all rests on faith and conviction. We are told by gurbani the true path but we make our own path and follow the path of least resistance.

I think you miss the point. As Guru Ji admonished the vaishnav pandit who thought that being a non-meat eater was the be all and end all, in the same way we need to move away from falling into the trap of following rules as being the all encompassing goal. Your life should flow like a stream towards the ocean. don't forever beat yourself up for not doing this or that, it is not about that. This is not a contradiction, yes it is best to be a vegetarian but if you them become so self-obsessed and egotistical that you look down on people and demand they stop their evil ways, well you have frankly lost the way yourself. The secret is to live your live in nimarta, in His hukam, love Guru Ji and guide those around you but ultimately they have to make their own choices.

[sikhiseeker]

Being part of the Khalsa is another form of Hunkaar - I / me am part of the Khalsa!

No my friend, be the lowest of the low, don't even consider yourself as part of the Khalsa. Khalsa is so spiritually elevated , we are not worthy. How can I, with all my shortfalls, be part of such a brother/sister hood?

You think that only those in the Khalsa are liberated in battle? Those who fight on the battlefield on both sides are part of the kshattri tradition, all become shaheed (and I am not talking about the ISIS types!) Those who fought against the Sikhs in full battle were also called Soormay by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Guru Ji praised all who fought in battle. Guru Ji praised the Sikhs and Guru Ji praised the enemy who fought fiercely and bravely. Were they fighting a just war? They were fighting against Guru Ji, yet Guru Ji in all his glory saw the bravery in them also. In Chandi Dhi Vaar, Guru Ji even praises the dhents (demons) who fought bravely.

We need to get over ourselves; Khalsa is just the fist step. Khalsa is not the only one who gets entry into Satch Khand!

I do no comdemn or look down on anyone, we all make our life choices and live by them. We are all on a path, no one is higher or lower, but all points of view need to be put forward so that in the end no one can say "I didn't know."

I think you misunderstand me (or my post was so muddled it didn't make any sense), all are tainted with karam and that includes the veggies and vegans. If the animal has suffered , if its atma suffered then whoever comes into contact with it or with its byproducts accumulates some karma. If you are not into naam simran and you have no time to develop your spirituality so that your mind tunes itself to the vibrations of the Shabad that permeates from the beginning of time, then it matters not whether you consume meat or not because meat "weighs" heavily on the soul, it will not let you do simran, it deadens the atam.

The statements I have made are a viewpoint it is up to you whether you accept or not, that is your purrative. If you take the opposing view I hold no grudge but all I will say is that if you ask any ,any spiritually elevated soul and ALL will warn you of the consequences of eating meat. It is our arrogance and our reluctance for change that stops us from moving forward.

Wouldn't it be great if there was one rehat maryada and everything was so clear cut and we didn't have to think or have any convictions or faith all we needed to do was follow the rehat and all would be fine. Well nothing is clear and for good reason. For it all rests on faith and conviction. We are told by gurbani the true path but we make our own path and follow the path of least resistance.

I think you miss the point. As Guru Ji admonished the vaishnav pandit who thought that being a non-meat eater was the be all and end all, in the same way we need to move away from falling into the trap of following rules as being the all encompassing goal. Your life should flow like a stream towards the ocean. don't forever beat yourself up for not doing this or that, it is not about that. This is not a contradiction, yes it is best to be a vegetarian but if you them become so self-obsessed and egotistical that you look down on people and demand they stop their evil ways, well you have frankly lost the way yourself. The secret is to live your live in nimarta, in His hukam, love Guru Ji and guide those around you but ultimately they have to make their own choices.

WJKK WJKF

I'm not sure if your post is for my attention in reply to my post in which I quoted your post, lol if that makes sense.....but I think I understand clearly what you have written and have not misunderstood your points. You claim vegetarianism as the ultimate diet, when really the only diet for your mann is naam simran and Amrit, no other food will nourish this hunger, whether it is meat or veg or vegan. All these types are simply food for your body. Got your soul, the food which one should spiritually consume is sat, Santokh and vechar, then when ones soul get thirsty, Amrit should be taken.

Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji tells us :

Thal vich tin vastu paiyo, sat, santokh vicharo.

Amrit Nam Thakur ka paiyo, jis ka sabhs adharo.

Jai ko khavai, jai ko bhunchai, tis ka hoye udharo

Eh wast taji neh jayee nit nit rakhu urdharo.

Tam sansar charan lag tariai sabh Nanak Brahm pasaro.(p.1429)

(Three main things are placed in this platter, Truthfulness, contentment and meditation-deliberation along with the Nectar of His Name, the sustenance of everyone. Whosoever partakes of it, digests it (shares it with others) would attain salvation. Once partaken, this food (His Name) cant be given up, bear this ever in mind. In this way can one get across the ocean (of life and death), and become aware, sayeth Nanak, of the entire creation of the Creator (Brahm).

So, this is the real food for ones soul, not meat, not veg and not vegan, however if you wish to come under one of the above categories, so be it, but we must all be prepared for battle and be shastar dhari, as per gurus hukam, clear cut enough for me.

Also, when our gurus and shaheed were in battle, yes dhan dhan akali nihang Shiri guru gobind Singh ji praised soldiers on the other side for fighting bravely, however they acted in the very same way as ISIS is right now, trying to spread Islam by the sword. There is now difference to the fanaticism then as it is happening right now. However mahaan sikh like dhan dhan baba kanaya ji understood the gian of gurbani, as he have water to all fallen soldiers, the water being contained within an animal by product, I wonder if any sikh, as you assume we should all be vegetarian refused to drink the cold thirst quenching water as it was stored in the stomach of a dead animal? I also then wonder if any fallen Hindu refused, or if any fallen musalmaan refused, as the by product most definitely would of not been a by product of halaal slaughter?

As I said, opinion is one thing, sikh/non-sikh ithiaas is another thing and then gurbani is the ultimate thing, the gian of gian, not an answer and question book.

Nothing never dies, just moves within the system to achieve mukhti, the merging of energy (atma) within the ultimate energy (pramaatma). The world itself is a living entity to which it undergoes it's cycle of seasons, over and over and over again, up until this game of the manifested simply will cease to exist at the will of waheguru.

WJKK WJKF