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baljinder_s

Pakhandian Ne Paya "maun Vrat Akhand Path" Da Bharam

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So you do beleive in Sri Dasam Granth I assume.

Cool.

As far as your belief for Sants goes.

I don't care.

Everyone had their beleifs.

Only reason I got involved was because I thought you were speaking about the bani .

Good. Veerji over-assumption can lead to catastrophes. So always be wary of what you assume without being clear of what the other person is talking about. Don't jump guns, that is the practice of ignorant people who don't know how to sit down and talk like enlightened intellectuals. That is rule#1 in healthy discussions (which rarely take place). Otherwise its called an 'ignorant argument'.

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Veerji how qualified are you to call someone you don't personally know a 'heretic'? Let me enlighten you with what the word professor means. It is a Latin origin word which originated in around 1350. In Latin prōfessor is one who has taken the vows of a religious order. It also refers to (in Latin) a public lecturer. So the point that he lies about his qualifications falls flat on floor. He holds a diploma from a government registered college. Which college gives title of bhramgyani, 108, sant, etc.? lol

Don't beat about the bush by what the ancient latin root meaning of a word is. Every word in the world has some root meaning in some ancient language dating back thousands of years ago. What does the word mean NOW! TODAY! is what matters. If you are telling me that a person who holds a mere diploma from an unaccredited collage can be a professor then that is as credible as a diploma holder claiming to being an MD. Sorry but in the world of academia it doesn't hold water. A public speaker is not a processor. If that is what a professor is then every yahoo who gives a lecture in speakers corner in London would qualify as a 'professor' by that definition.

He and his mentor(Ghagha) is a fake a professor just like the fake holy men who use Sant next to their names in order to trick and misguide the bhola bhaala Sikh out there. But the existence of fake professors like Dhundu and Ghughu does not mean there are no real professors out there who have academically earned to have such a qualification. Same way the existence of fake Sants does not mean there have never been real Sants. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is an example of a real Sant.

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If you are telling me that a person who holds a mere diploma from an unaccredited collage can be a professor then that is as credible as a diploma holder claiming to being an MD.

Being an MD just gives prefix of Dr. not Prof. MD is a professional designation. The designation of Professor is not awarded anywhere in the world, it is a post/position which one holds when teaching in an post secondary academic institute.

Don't beat about the bush by what the ancient latin root meaning of a word is. Every word in the world has some root meaning in some ancient language dating back thousands of years ago.

The meaning of the word wouldn't change even 1000 years down to road. The root meaning stays no matter how much the wording is distorted. Please refer to some linguistic Ted-talk to learn more about linguism.

Sorry but in the world of academia it doesn't hold water. A public speaker is not a processor. If that is what a professor is then every yahoo who gives a lecture in speakers corner in London would qualify as a 'professor' by that definition.

If you teach in some academic institute you may use the prefix. It is not a professional designation like CFA, Dr., Er., CMA, etc. but a common word in the 'world of academia'. Is every corner of London an academic institute? I haven't been there so not sure. If it is a case then they may call themselves. Linguism allows them.

He and his mentor(Ghagha) is a fake a professor just like the fake holy men who use Sant next to their names in order to trick and misguide the bhola bhaala Sikh out there.

Agreed. I am not defending anybody here. But these sants etc. have done more damage and hijacked sikhi more. They have money power and money rules in today's world (a realistic expression). I am not sure about Ghagga, but Dhunda is only so hated because of his approach against babas and taksalis. He speaks substance. His view on Dasam Granth is other matter. As far as Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is concerned he has done a commendable job in explaining people what guru sahb is saying. Different matter some people can't digest the simplicity of gurbani.

Same way the existence of fake Sants does not mean there have never been real Sants. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is an example of a real Sant.

The only sant is akal purakh and guru sahb. No other mortal can be called with that prefix. Then Bhai Mati Das should be Sant Mati Das. He is also an example of real Sant who didn't give up guru's philosophy. NOTE: I hold highest respect for Baba Jarnail Singh Ji, Real Singh Soorma of the 20th century.

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Being an MD just gives prefix of Dr. not Prof. MD is a professional designation. The designation of Professor is not awarded anywhere in the world, it is a post/position which one holds when teaching in an post secondary academic institute.

The meaning of the word wouldn't change even 1000 years down to road. The root meaning stays no matter how much the wording is distorted. Please refer to some linguistic Ted-talk to learn more about linguism.

If you teach in some academic institute you may use the prefix. It is not a professional designation like CFA, Dr., Er., CMA, etc. but a common word in the 'world of academia'. Is every corner of London an academic institute? I haven't been there so not sure. If it is a case then they may call themselves. Linguism allows them.

Agreed. I am not defending anybody here. But these sants etc. have done more damage and hijacked sikhi more. They have money power and money rules in today's world (a realistic expression). I am not sure about Ghagga, but Dhunda is only so hated because of his approach against babas and taksalis. He speaks substance. His view on Dasam Granth is other matter. As far as Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is concerned he has done a commendable job in explaining people what guru sahb is saying. Different matter some people can't digest the simplicity of gurbani.

The only sant is akal purakh and guru sahb. No other mortal can be called with that prefix. Then Bhai Mati Das should be Sant Mati Das. He is also an example of real Sant who didn't give up guru's philosophy. NOTE: I hold highest respect for Baba Jarnail Singh Ji, Real Singh Soorma of the 20th century.

You are clutching at straws. Maybe you are doing this out of Bholapan(innocence) or out of dishonesty, I don't know. By bringing in it's latin root or saying a professor is simply a lecturer you are ignoring the academic qualifications of what makes a professor. Examples of real Sikh professors are Prof Gurmukh Singh Jee who was one of the founding fathers of the Singh Sabha movement, another is Prof Sahib Singh Jee who authored a number of books on Sikhi and wrote an entire translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, Dr Ganda Singh(also a professor) who authored a number of books on history. These gentlemen were academically qualified for the position of a professor, they taught at collages and universities. No one disputes this. But when we have people who are mere dasvi passed and diploma holders claiming to be professors it is an insult to those great men who earned this position due to sheer hard work and it also misguides the average Jantaa into believing Dundhu and Gughu are academics when in fact they are not.

Now I will tell you what Dundha is. He is a Giani and he taught at an unaccredited institute. Just for your info, he did the Giani course from PU(patiala) which is done in 4 to 6 months. So if he wants he should add Giani to this name. But he wont do that since he doesn't want a desi sounding designation. Further more, when he attended missionary collage, he learned from Ghagha who was also a so called 'professor' there. Ghagha who used to work at the Bijli board only attended school till grade 10. After that he did a correspondance course from Sikh missionary collage which earned him a diploma. From there he began teaching at Sikh missionary collage. So it is basically the blind leading the blind. There is nothing academic about dhunda or his teacher ghagha.

As for Sant Jernail Singh Bhindranwale, he is called a Sant by Sikhs out of respect for him. Bhai Mati Das Jee was also a Sant Mahapursh. A Sant is a Saint. Who can deny these men were not Saints? The term Sant can be used out of respect for Vaheguru, Guru Jee and Sikh Saints.

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He is a heretic.

1699 = Jonny Paji instead of labelling fellow GurSikhs as heretics why not let us concentrate on how all of us can unite to unitedly tackle bakhre bakhre Gurdware, drugs, alcohol, illiteracy, infanticide, cancer and poverty afflicting our Panth and use all hands willing to help?

:) reasons? The guys a phony. A self proclaimed professor who disrespects Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. Dont think I need any other reasons. His a clown.

1699 = That's good to know S4NGH bir'ay that you oppose derawadi as well as biprenwaad yatra's. And just as an aside, I remember thinking years in the past that how dare S4NGH disrespect Master Tara Singh Ji as a Hindu and thinking how pro-Pakistan or how easy going you were to stick up for Pakistani's but I would like to say big respect to you for many good posts on other topics you've made more recently. I thought you were a bit harsh on Harsharan000 though! Anyways getting back to topic. Fair enough you are strongly against Dhunda. That's fine. Each of us has a right to agree and disagree with what we consider to be in tandem with Gurmat. As far as I understand Dhunda emphasises that JapJi Sahib comes first and his problem with Charitropakhiyan is more to do with the majority sexual stories part which is called Triya Charitar as opposed to Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib. I don't agree with your classification of him as a clown as it is strong Sangat support of him that accords him the title "Professor" more than anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDB9gxNKsdc

Dhunda Did His False Translation of Bachittar Natak

1699 = Bir'ay 8963 Ji i don't think the juxtaposition of Shaheed Baba Jarnail Singh Ji's awaaz with Dhunda's point regarding Sri Anandpur Sahib and Vaisakhi 1699 being more central to Sikhi than yatra's to Uttarakhand contradicts Dhunda's point in any way. In fact I strongly believe that Shaheed Bhai Jarnail Singh Ji by the time of June 1984 had rejected much of what Damdami Taksal's essentially Sanatan and Vedic leaning doctrine had classicly stood for (in contrast to Gurmat). For example, in the 1980 elections Damdami Taksal campaigned for Congress (Indira) with disastrous impacts for our Panth to this very day. Clearly by June 1984 we see that Shaheed Bhai Jarnail Singh Ji was Indira's biggest opponent and similarly I passionately believe that theologically Khalsa Ji had distanced themselves from the Sanatan and Vedic leaning classic ideology and Dusht Daman concepts of Damdami Taksal by June 1984.

1699 = Also remember bir'ay that all Dhunda is primarily saying re Bachittar Natak is that he disagrees that our Guru Sahibaan were not Hindu Kings in previous lives (from only the two clans of Sodhi and Bedi) who divided up the future actual GurGaddi between 1469-1708 as if it was a Hindu fiefdom according to who had allegedly read the Veda's most extensively in their supposed previous lives (as stated in Bachittar Natak). I know you as my sincere brother totally believe that story but please bear in mind that the majority of the Panth can't stomach this story that GurGaddi was carved up by a bunch of Hindu Kings in such a superficial way in contrast to what actually occurred 1469-1708 where GurGaddi succession provably occurred on the criteria of Bibek Buddhi and Seva and Kamai.

If you don't believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

I don't think this forum is right for you. The Admins have a very clear policy on this.

Of course you should stay here learn explore give your opinion but not talk about Sri Dasam Granth if you are against it.

1699 = HSingh Ji don't forget that 100% of the Sikh Panth believe in Dasam Bani. I do. You do. SikhiInspire does. Even Sarbjit Singh Dhunda does. So does Ghagha. And obviously Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji too.

1699 = The only difference is that some Sangat don't consider the sexual stories of Triya Charitar, for example, as authentic Dasam Bani. We are nevertheless all still Sikhs. And all of us should agree to diasgree respectfully.

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Akhauti Parcharak Dundha reveals his heretical views on Sri Jaap Sahib which is a Nitnemi Bani.

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I don't agree sant ji opposed Damdami Taksal which was started by Guru Maharaj

Bir'ay Takht Sri Damdama Sahib has no connection to Chowk Mehta. Zail Sinh chose Damdami Taksal specifically to enlist as support for Congress (Indira) in the 1980 elections on the basis of their name as Longowal was known as Sant Longowal for his seva at Takht Sri Damdama Sahib. It was Dhumma and his like who encouraged the support for Congress (Indira) and came up with the claim DDT were founded by Guru Sahib despite Damdami Taksal provably being founded in the 20th century by Giani Sunder Singh Ji and having no link at all to Takht Sri Damdama Sahib.

I'm sure you are aware that Giani Sunder Singh Nirmale who founded Damdami Taksal in the 20th century was a student of Pandit Jawala Das Udasi?

For example, this is Damdami Taksal's man-made nitnem devised in the late 19th century after 1857 (Rahiraas) and I strong believe Shaheed Baba Jarnail Singh Ji had moved away from this by June 1984:

ਦੋਹਰਾ॥

ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ॥

ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ॥1॥

ਚੌਪਈ॥

ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ॥

ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ॥

ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤ ਕੀ ਏ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ॥

ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ॥1॥

(in Roman transliteration):

Dohraa

Raam kathaa jug jug atal, sabh koee bahkhat nayt.

Surg baas raghubar karaa, sagri puree samay. 1

Chaupai

Jo ih kathaa sunai aur gaavai.

Dookh paap tih nikat naa aavai.

Bisan bhagat kee ih phal ho-ee.

Aaadhi byadhi chhvai sakai naa ko-ee. 1

(English translation): Dohra

The story of Ram will remain known through Ages and all shall ever narrate it.

Raghubar (Ram) went to heavens and took his entire city with him.

(So, the taksal worships Ram):

Dohra

Those who will listen to or sing this (Ram’s) story;

sufferings and sins will not come near him.

This will be the fruit (profit) of the meditation upon the name of Vsihnu.

No disease or illness will be able to touch him. 1

(So, the taksal worships Vishnu also):

Giani Sunder Singh (1883-1930) of Bhinder Kalan village (in Firozpur district) was the founder of modern day Damdami Taksal.

Sunder Singh Ji was known as ‘Sri Maan 108 Giani Sunder Singh Nirmala’; he was a student of Pandit Jawala Das Udasi

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Sant giani baba jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindranwale said damdami Taksaal was started by guru maharaj.

As Did Sant Giani Baba Kartar Singh Bhindranwale

Sant giani baba gurbachan singh ji said the same.

I wouldn't over think these things. I don't understand why people have such a hard time accepting that Guru Maharaj Started Damdami Taksaal.

I'm not a Taksal da Singh BTW.

Sant Sunder singh Ji didn't start the taksal. Before them was Baba Bishan Singh

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Bir'ay Baba Bishan Singh Ji never lead nor created Chowk Mehta Taksal.

DDT was never even called DDT until the 20th century.

However, Baba Bishan Singh Ji learn a lot from certain Pandits.

Baba Bishan Singh Ji did of course relay onwards the teachings of those Pandits to Giani Sunder Singh Nirmale Ji.

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I disagree.

You are mistaken.

"On the 13th day in the month of Maagh 1962 Bikramee 1905 eesvee Sant Bishan Singh Ji themselves tied the dastar of Damdami Taksal around the head of Sant Giani Sundar Singh Ji Bhindranwale."

Damdami Taksal.

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We obviously have different opinions.

That's fine.

I feel I am done with this thread.

The main topic. Was that Dhunda has false views....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=IJlSVej6H8q0oQTD-YHwDg&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DKi3CkME1meo&ved=0CB0QtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNHkLi4yJ6C9l8RDbnGPzWfELOCtOw

Please view

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Lets take a step back and ponder as to how the word Sant became a prefix in Sikhi. The word "saint" originated in Christianity. After the fall of Sikh Raj, the term got associated with people in Sikhi. You won't find anybody with that title before that time. Can anybody have more 'kamai' (as you refer it to) than Bhai Mardana who spent his entire life in shadow of dhan guru nanak dev ji maharaj? Why not Sant Mardana? Bhai Gurdas. Bhai Mani Singh. Bhai Taru Singh. Bhai Dayala. Bhai Sati Das. Bhai Mati Das. Bhai Bachittar Singh. The list is endless. Guru Sahb was present in human form at that time, he could have bestowed any such title to the singhs mentioned above. But there is no place of such titles in Sikhi as there can be only one Sant that is Akal purakh and guru sahb himself. Note: Nobody is questioning the contribution of Baba/Bhai Jarnail Singh here to Sikh Panth. His name is in the same list of great singh soorme.

Bhagat Prahlaad is called Sant Prahlaad in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Therefore the word Sant has been used for an individual who has reached the state of being a Sant.

Coming back to the chronology of events, Britishers were first to introduce sainthood titles in Sikhi. It was done to separate sikhs from the gyan and free spirit sikhs got from guru granth sahb ji. For reference please read the entire book (I mean every page and word) "Papers relating to Punjab 1847-49, Presented to Both Houses of Parliament by Command of her majesty, may 1849", to understand the hostility of british raj towards sikh philosophy.

A terrible theory with so many holes in it.

As to 'sant' and 'bhramgyani' shabad in sukhmani sahb, it has come only for Akal Purakh and Guru Sahb. Nobody is allowed to take those titles. If you walk into a university and find 100s of chancellors, who would you follow? There can only be 1 of them, just 1.

Gurbani gave the title of sant to a individual named Prahlaad. Let me know if you will lose the ability of knowing how to use a search engine now.

The only voice which carries "weight" in sikhi is that of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Which is all of the Gurus Bani including Dasam Bani. If you have trouble swallowing this truth. I can surely present Gurbani which shows all Sikhs the truth of what is Guru ki Bani.

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