The Relationship Between Sikh Religion And Sikh Ethnicity

[Balkaar]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

The Sikh religion is self-admittedly universal. I do not believe any Sikh would disagree.

The Sikhs of the diaspora (and, it may be said, in India) have fought tooth and nail for a long time in order to be recognized as a distinct ethnic group. The argument which is used most commonly to refute this proposition is that Sikhism is a religion, theoretically open to anyone.

In order to be described as an ethnic group a people must share a common language, culture, history, religion, and geographical origin. As is currently stands we fulfill all these criteria. But if Sikhi were spread and converts to be made to such an extent that, in the future, a large proportion of of Sikhs did not trace their origins to the Punjab, speak Punjabi and did not share in the history which flows through our veins in the form of the blood of our forefathers, then we could never again advance the idea that we are an 'ethnic group' because the definition of this term would no longer apply to us. In other words, the more converts are made to the Sikh religion, the more the cause of a distinct Sikh ethnicity is undermined and undone.

Does the self determination of the Sikh people (the desire to be recognized as a separate ethnic group) conflict with the proliferation of the Sikh religion? Which of these causes do you consider to be more important? I cannot yet decide. I love our people and our traditions and the greatest way to protect the integrity of these traditions would be Sikh self-determination. But I also don't like the idea of denying the Jot of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj to the world and its people, who sorely need it in the blackness of Kaljug.

May any offence I might have caused be forgiven,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[eduardo]

I guess the question I would ask is that if I were to convert to Sikhism, being a white man, would I ever be fully accepted and trusted because I was not Punjabi?

Excellent thread.

[StarStriker]

Well in the future, 960Million khalsa will be living in the world, n id imagine, most will not be s.asian, let alone panjabi.

[eduardo]

960 million, how did you work that figure out?

[buddasingh]

“Converts”. Is that what panj piare were? They gave their heads. The first to stand up and come forward? Our Guruji bowed before them. Were they “our” people? They were converts. What does that make the rest of us? Think about that for a moment.

Surely the suggestion is not that Guru Gobind Singh Ji undermined Sikh “ethnicity” at the outset? In fact, that day in 1699 is a core of Sikh ethnicity.

What does that make any who make a claim to being proud “ethnic” punjabi Sikhs? That makes them as people who challenge Guru Gobind Singh Ji with our CASTE/RACE/ETHINIC ridden mentality.

Sikhs share a common humanity. A people who see commonality as a social spiritual human experience beyond race, geography, or language. How can ethnicity get greater than a group of people who believe in a human ethnicity? Not only is that Ethnicity, it is the richest Ethnicity in the world.

Sikh punjabis are trying hard and having a massive struggle with understanding the preservation and promotion of Sikh culture. It’s a positive thing, absolutely. However, despite many who take the lead sincerely, the core drive of the masses behind that preservation is Punjabi CASTEIST, RACIST mindsets.

We may be well intentioned, but that racism is the same as the vibrant accepted western racism of decades past. We started absorbing our racism and castesim, like the rest of India, when we learned to walk and talk.

Therefore getting rid of our racism/casteism it is not a mere mental decision. A deep, deep reflection and serious challenge to our make up and our core beliefs about “cultural” identity over time is required.

The very fact that Sikhi has not already spread through the world is a black mark on us as ethnic punjabi’s who have turned Sikhi into a caste birth right. Amongst us there are Sikh warriors who walk the walk of 1699. The bulk of us punjabi’s, perhaps less on this forum, are just lighter versions of deras, fake babas, cults, sects who point to those crazier, so we feel sane and "sikh".

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I guess the question I would ask is that if I were to convert to Sikhism, being a white man, would I ever be fully accepted and trusted because I was not Punjabi?

Excellent thread.

Well, I would accept you as a brother of mine. Even though you are a Christian, I would still respect you, what we don't like is insincere converts, (key word insincere).

"Recognize the whole of human race as one." Also Guru Sahib would accept you as well, just as there are some Christians who may be racist as are some Sikhs.

[Balkaar]

“Converts”. Is that what panj piare were? They gave their heads. The first to stand up and come forward? Our Guruji bowed before them. Were they “our” people? They were converts. What does that make the rest of us? Think about that for a moment.

Surely the suggestion is not that Guru Gobind Singh Ji undermined Sikh “ethnicity” at the outset? In fact, that day in 1699 is a core of Sikh ethnicity.

It may not have begun as an ethnicity in 1699, but it has become one over the course of 300 odd years. All ethnic groups have to have their beginnings somewhere, cultures and nations don't just spontaneously materialize. Sikhi didn't even start off as a distinct religion (Bhai Mardana referred to himself as a Muslim Sikh), it only became one through the centuries because of the continuous assault and persecution which necessitated a separate identity , hence the conception of Miri-Piri by Guru Hargobind Sahib, and the founding of the Khalsa by our Dashmesh Pita, among other things. Neither of these developments would have taken place if not for Mughal persecution. And without these developments, the Tisar Panth, Sikhi, would never have distinguished itself from Bhakti Hinduism or Sufi Islam.

[Balkaar]

They are just proud of that because it is believed that our Sri Guru Sahibs were from the Punjab region..!

Brother (or sister, as the case may be ), they were known to be from the Punjab region, not simply believed to be.

[Balkaar]

Yeah I don't get what the problem is to say your ethnicity though.. ethnicity and religion is different lol. Saying Punjabi Sikh would just mean a Sikh from Punjab, or would it be better to say (for example your name) balkaar Sikh Punjab wala/wali

Lol as much as I like that title I don't suppose I would actually adopt it.

That's exactly the sort of thing I wanted to understand in posting this question. Is the Sikh ethnicity separate from the Sikh religion, or is it one and the same? Does the Sikh ethnicity, if there is one, really matter when compared to our sacred duty to spread the Jot of Guru Nanak to all corners of the Earth? I can't say that any of my doubts have been allayed just yet.

[Balkaar]

I think as Sikhs we are seen as one community, but what's wrong with saying where your genes are from right?

I agree entirely, I can't sympathize with this insistence by some Sikhs that for me to even say that I am of a certain racial descent, that I am of Jatt descent for instance, is anathema to the principles of Sikhi and that I am a casteist fool at the root of all Sikhi's problems for speaking thusly. I don't think my being of Jatt ancestry makes me better than anyone else, its whats written in my genes, it cannot be changed.

I guess the question I would ask is that if I were to convert to Sikhism, being a white man, would I ever be fully accepted and trusted because I was not Punjabi?

Excellent thread.

That's just the thing. The idea of denying somebody entry into the Sikh religion on the basis of their color fills me with revulsion. Sikhi IS open to all.

But on the other hand, I also do not like the idea that our traditions, many with explicitly Punjabi connotations, particularly with regards the script and poetry of our sacred scriptures, might have to be discarded in order to accommodate converts from vastly different cultures. Am I a chauvinist for thinking this way?

In India, Sikhism and Sikh traditions are routinely attacked by the establishment and by the government of India. The best way to repel their efforts would be self-determination for the Sikh people, but that will only be achieved if we can make the case to the rest of the world that we are an ethnic group and that any devolution of powers is taking place on the basis of nationhood/ethnicity. Not on the basis of religion - as with the creation of Pakistan, which should never have happened.

I am conflicted.