Khalistan Movement

[Kira]

I said sikh quam not punjab, of course punjab has problems, but if you think khalistan will be some kind of utopia you are about deluded as isis and the desire for caliphate..

How are people falling back into rituals not affecting the sikh quam? Many people who travel to Punjab want to get back in touch with their roots in Sikhi, with these things around it causes confusion and controversy. Let's not forget the fake baba and dera that are popping up faster than ever.

[DTF]

An independent nation in the areas of Majha and Malwa (called Khalistan or Punjab) can certainly be viable (though I do not advocate that we should prioritise it as an issue given more immediate problems and dangers facing the Sikh Panth that we need to urgently address first).

A rather big impediment to such a nation state existing any time soon is that Sikhs are currently on course to be less than 50% of the east Punjab population by the time of 2021 census. Doaba as we all know (and where many of us have links to) is already an area where Sikhs are in a minority and where a referendum would currently result in a rejection of Khalistan for the Doaba area itself.

Non-Sikhs comprising Hindu's, Muslims, Christians, Jains and Buddhists are currently unanimously against the concept of Khalistan. Sikhs falling into the GOI's false classification of so-called scheduled and backward castes and dera followers are also overwhelmingly unsupportive of Khalistan. So-called Jat Sikhs who nowadays only comprise 25% of the east Punjab population (and now also included in the backward castes category) are also pretty equally divided between Badal Dal and Congress camps currently, neither of which advocate Khalistan. Urban Sikhs have always been against Khalistan for business reasons. Thus in all demographic segments a minority support Khalistan.

The level of support in east Punjab for the political parties that democratically seek for a peaceful transition to Khalistan was less than even 1% in the recent 2014 elections (garnering only 1% of Sikh votes in Punjab itself).

So long as both Pakistan and India remain as undivided centralised nation states the prospects for Khalistan coming into being are very slim, as the major powers favour a united India as a counterweight to China and China itself cares little for the Sikhs (given it's own illegal annexation of Tibet) so long as it can sell its goods to a 1.3 billion population market. Even Pakistan is happily co-operating with India against Sikhs realising that independence movements inside Pakistan such as in Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh would only grow unstoppably stronger as a result.

Therefore, if we are serious about Khalsa Raj actually being a global phenomenon (or at least capable of turning all of present day India into Khalsa Raj) we need to prioritise bigger immediate issues currently afflicting the Panth in the form of drugs, alcohol, infanticide, caste apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty.

As the concept of Khalistan in Majha and Malwa is de facto acting as a distraction from allowing us to start addressing bigger, more immediate problems.

Until 99% of Sikhs do not refrain from drugs and acohol the prospects for Khalistan are slim due to the Pakistani and Indian drugs flooding Punjab. Instead of chanting slogans for Khalistan we need to actively and physically choke the smuggling of drugs into Punjab from Pakistan and the subsequent sale of those drugs by local dealers. Allowing drug sales to be conducted unchecked should be seen as one of the biggest beadbi's of what Guru Sahib teach us. (We should also realise that saroops being burnt - when our Guru as Shabad Bani is indestructible - is simply a ploy of our enemies to distract our efforts from addressing the bigger issues of drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, caste apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty).

Until caste divisions are addressed and matrimonial apartheid within the Qaum are stamped out, there is no real prospect for Khalistan any time soon. A people that don't even pray together in united Gurdwara's pose zero threat to the enemies of Sikhs. Only when each pind and locality has a single united Sangat Gurdwara and matrimonial apartheid is uprooted from our mindset can Khalsa Raj (whether in Majha and Malwa only ... or across all of India as an enlarged version of Khalistan ... or globally) ever begin to be envisioned.

Female infanticide results in our demographic oblivion. If we don't realise the importance of Sikh numbers being as large as possible (and accepting all those who have ever been to a Gurdwara as fellow Sikhs) we should at least realise that most minority populations have been unsuccessful at attempts to gain independence if they lack even local area's of predominance in poulation terms. Thus, if we are less than 50% of the east Punjab population by the time of 2021 census via the wholesale removal of all erstwhile Mazhabi and Ravidassia Sikhs from the Panth and their re-classification into Balmiki Mandir and Dera Ballan stooges by our enemies (aided and abetted by our inaction and indifference) then we only have our own ignorance and betrayal of Gurmat and Sikhi (in relation to the abolition of caste apartheid) to blame.

Only when literacy rates within the Panth rise close to 100% will we have a populace that is academically able to distinguish what is in it's best democratic interests (as opposed to believing in media lies which malign the Sikh ethos of Sarbat da Bhala - the welfare of all).

Poverty and cancer are social issues that we from the Diaspora need to change ourselves by greater investment in Punjab to allow jobs growth and increase healthcare provision as we can hardly expect the poor, the weak and the illiterate to meaningfully campaign for democratic change in their own interests given their daily struggles to survive in the face of a Delhi regime which is backed and supported by America, Russia, the UK, France, Canada etc who are all more focussed on trade deals with a 1.3 billion population country (rather than a 1.8% minority within India which is on course to fall below 50% of the Punjab population by 2021 if we ignore the more immediate problems facing us).

[Kira]

Wouldn't Pakistan be fine with Khalistan though. India loses a large chunk of its land,industry and food source and it leaves them even weaker. Plus having another Ally against them would be beneficial to them. I'm not proposing an alliance or anything but it is a possibility

[DTF]

Kira Ji, Pakistan's political elite would secretly be delighted if Khalistan came into being.

However, in real terms, they realise an individual Indian state becoming independent would make the independence movements for Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh unstoppable (without the enemy of India to hold Pakistan together).

Hence, why Pakistan actively co-operates with Delhi to flood east Punjab with drugs in order to financially profit from the human misery of million of Sikhs. Pakistan actively assisted Delhi against Sikhs in the 1980's as we all now know.

Note how Pakistan does not do the same in Kashmir and strictly enforces a drugs export ban to (Indian) Kashmir.

[Kira]

Kira Ji, Pakistan's political elite would secretly be delighted if Khalistan came into being.

However, in real terms, they realise an individual Indian state becoming independent would make the independence movements for Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh unstoppable (without the enemy of India to hold Pakistan together).

Hence, why Pakistan actively co-operates with Delhi to flood east Punjab with drugs in order to financially profit from the human misery of million of Sikhs. Pakistan actively assisted Delhi against Sikhs in the 1980's as we all now know.

Note, how Pakistan does not do the same in Kashmir and strictly enforces a drugs export ban to Kashmir.

I'm curious about that, can you shed some light on this please.

[DTF]

Kira Ji, during Benazir Bhutto's leadership of Pakistan in the 1980's these two terrorist states known as India and Pakistan had a very cosy reciprocal relationship which meant that Pakistan would provide intelligence against Sikhs in Punjab from Pakistani agents and spies inside east Punjab whilst India would do the same for Pakistan in relation to the MQM (Urdu speaking Muhajirs from India living in Pakistan since 1947).

Security experts have revealed that India's rationale behind this was that they considered only the Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh independence movements to have critical mass (whilst the MQM's only real stronghold was Karachi). Similarly, by Pakistan assisting Congress in their Genocide against Sikhs, Pakistan has enabled itself to reap billions of dollars of profit from the human misery of millions of Sikh drug addicts and their families in the last three decades whilst allowing Pakistan to focus their resources upon annexing Kashmir - which to all intents and purposes they have seemingly now given up on as well (except for occasional skirmishes when politically convenient).

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

Khalistan isn't needed. We can do bhagti anywhere. Have you forgotton what happened when Pakistan split, all that bloodshed? I wouldn't want that again. No doubt something similar would probably happen. Even Pakistan becoming a country wasn't needed.

Well, good luck to you trying to make Sikhi flourish within India, it won't happen, but good luck.

Wouldn't Pakistan be fine with Khalistan though. India loses a large chunk of its land,industry and food source and it leaves them even weaker. Plus having another Ally against them would be beneficial to them. I'm not proposing an alliance or anything but it is a possibility

Land wise Punjab is quite a small state, Punjab is also no where close to being a industrial hub of India, only thing is the crops Punjab supplies. Apparently however India has enough reserves to last quite some while if Punjab was to suddenly cut off supplies.They have the upper hand in every shape and form. Khalistan is needed, but I feel as if we lost our chance and the possibility is gone.

[Kira]

Kira Ji, during Benazir Bhutto's leadership of Pakistan in the 1980's these two terrorist states known as India and Pakistan had a very cosy reciprocal relationship which meant that Pakistan would provide intelligence against Sikhs in Punjab from Pakistani agents and spies inside east Punjab whilst India would do the same for Pakistan in relation to the MQM (Urdu speaking Muhajirs from India living in Pakistan since 1947).

Security experts have revealed that India's rationale behind this was that they considered only the Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh independence movements to have critical mass (whilst the MQM's only real stronghold was Karachi). Similarly, by Pakistan assisting Congress in their Genocide against Sikhs, Pakistan has enabled itself to reap billions of dollars of profit from the human misery of millions of Sikh drug addicts and their families in the last three decades whilst allowing Pakistan to focus their resources upon annexing Kashmir - which to all intents and purposes they have seemingly now given up on as well (except for occasional skirmishes when politically convenient).

interesting.

Land wise Punjab is quite a small state, Punjab is also no where close to being a industrial hub of India, only thing is the crops Punjab supplies. Apparently however India has enough reserves to last quite some while if Punjab was to suddenly cut off supplies.They have the upper hand in every shape and form. Khalistan is needed, but I feel as if we lost our chance and the possibility is gone.

I'm aware of the lack of industry in punjab compared to the rest of india, I was just adding bit more context (and a slight exaggeration haha).

How long would you say they could last if Punjab did suddenly cut them off.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

Yeah, and if Sri Khalistan is made it won't flourish in India either. It's nothing surprising, most people aren't even dharmic in their own dharm in India. I'd rather stay in my homeland rather than participating in this movement which can possibly cause deaths as it did when other countries split away from India.

Khalistan wouldnt't be "in India" so I don't understand what you mean. The deaths already occuring, first bullets were causing the deaths, now they just got smarter and changed their tactic. Killing us off silently. Also, Khalistan isn't to make everyone dharmic, its so Sikhs can practice their religion freely without interference, those who want too.

interesting.

I'm aware of the lack of industry in punjab compared to the rest of india, I was just adding bit more context (and a slight exaggeration haha).

How long would you say they could last if Punjab did suddenly cut them off.

I am not sure, to be honest, but the Indian govt is smart, I imagine they have back up plans to maybe raze more land in UP or Maharastra etc to develop for agriculture. I refuse to believe India intends to keep relying on Sikh farmers.

[Balkaar]

You forget that you are equally as Indian as anyone else if you have Indian DNA. I just don't want the atrocities to come back how it did when Pakistan and out countries split such as Bangla. You're getting carried away with emotions. India has always existed, some of our own bahdur Sikhs have given shaheedi for India, and now this is how you repay them, by saying their death meant nothing and you want another new country? How long will this keep going. Sikhs are INDIAN if they are from INDIA. You are equally as Indian as those so called backwards people you are talking about. Punjabis are Indian oh my god. If any place is India the most it's Punjab because Indians are really people who lived past and by the Sindhu river, and right now India's Punjab is the closest to that river, so there you go! It went from Sindhu-Hindu-Hind-Ind-India for the name.

Indian DNA? Preeet, how do you manage to access this forum from the alternate dimension where you live, in which a Punjabi belongs to the same race as a bloke from Tamil Nadu?

Please reply, your answer could be very beneficial to the scientists of my own universe.