Is Guru Granth Sahib Ji Within A Hindu Mandir Beadbi?

[simran345]

Agreed. Satnam Sri Vaheguru ji.

Some people do Munda kuri farkh, and others do Paramatma sevak farkh.. There is no farkh.

http://youtu.be/DQr0J8brxSc

?? Dhan Guru Ram Das ji

[Guest gupt]

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is for everyone, the message is universal.

In the olden days, not so long ago in fact, Hindus used to come to the Gurdwara and the mulsims used to go to the Gurdwara and there was a togetherness that we just do not find these days. They did sewa in the Gurdwaras and did satkar of Guru Ji. But over the years we have showed great animosity to the local communities so much so that these days you will never find any Hindus or Muslims at Gurdwaras anymore.We ourselves have made Sikhi so small, we have shrunk it just to the Gurdwaras, and what a great job we are making of the Gurdwaras :-(

We go into any place where we hear of saroop of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, instead of showing them how to do proper satkaar or Guru Ji, instead of showing them the rehat maryadha so that they can do true sewa of Guru Ji and that Guru Ji's message is cherished and spread by all to the whole world we instead create great hoo-ha and bring Saroop back to Gurdwara.

How much satkar do we give Guru Sahib Ji in our Gurdwaras?

When anand karaj takes place in Guru Ji’s hazoori how much beadbi do we do? Take the way we dress, take the way we totally ignore Guru throughout the ceremony and take the way the photographers and video makers scuttle about trying to get the best shot with total disregard to Guru Ji.

We have people sitting on benches in front of Guru Ji, is this not beadbi?

Big arguments in front of Guru Ji happen all the time with total disregard to Guru Ji, then these escalate to full blown fights with people running around with kirpans, where is the satkar of Guru Ji then?

Yet we will charge into any Mandir grab saroop of Guru Sahib Ji in the name of beadbi.

Would it not be wise to sit down with the mandir leaders and show them how to do satkar, show them rehat maryadha. Why are we shrinking Sikhi ourselves ?

Guru Jee is not limted within the parameters of time and space as we the rest of the beings.

Just as the sun arises in the sky and gives it sunshine to all of the creation, irrespective of caste, color, creed and gender.

So is Guru Jee, full of Akhand Jot. Who spreads His Daya Meher on all, whether gursikhs, hindus, muslims, christians, to the extent , even on devis, devtas, gods, godesses....

All, absolutely all are worthy of His kirpa.

It is we, who take Guru Jee as limited due to our limitations.

But the fact is, Guru Jee is limitless as Wahiguru Himself.

Sat Sree Akal.

I disagree with everything you said. I don't understand how someone can call themselves a Sikh but not even defend Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Balkaar is right, there is a lot of dhilla sentiments being expressed by you two and its shocking. You mean to say that since Guru Ji is for everyone its ok for musalman and hindus hold Guru Granth Sahib Ji within their facility regardless of the way they carry out their seva? The FACT is if muslims, hindus or christians want darshan of Guru Granth Sahib Ji then they have to visit the GURDWARA, END OF. There is no taking a maharaj saroop and placing it within a building of manmat like a hindu mandir which has idol worship all around it, going totally against Guru Granth Sahib Ji and mocking it.

Bundha, you mean to tell me its ok to teach those hindus in the mandir how to carry out seva of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and just leave all the statues and idol worship there? You really expect them to remove all the statues/idols and just focus on Guru Granth sahib ji? I doubt they'd ever do that. Its one or the other, having Satguru Ji in a mandir is manmat and total beadbi. I suggest you reconsider everything you said as some of it was ridiculous. They could carry out the best sewa of Guru Granth Sahib Ji ever, but that still wouldn't change the fact that there is idol worship around it and other manmat and hypocritical rituals all around. Its the same as having Guru Granth Sahib Ji in a bar/pub. The owners and all occupants could be carrying out the greatest seva of Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroop, but doesn't change the fact there will be alcohol surrounding it everywhere which is totally against the principles, teachings, doctrines of Guru Ji. There is a difference between doing disrespect of Satguru Ji in the Gurdwara and doing direct beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroop itself. The arguments, benches etc. stuff happens everywhere. Does that mean we should just remove Guru Granth Sahib Ji from the Gurdwara then? Is the hindu mandir or the mosque a better place to place it then since the mandir is full of idol worship which goes against Satguru Ji? How does what you said make any sense what so ever? I don't mean to come across offensive but what you said seems like something that would come across from someone who has no sharda or pyaar for Guru Granth Sahib Ji maharaj and just sees it as a 'book'. Call me biased or whatever but you said absolutely nothing against the mandir lot for carrying out such a beadbi. While the suggestions you mentioned (like teaching them sewa) can be viewed as acceptable there was still nothing from you that showed some support in any form or manner.

Harsharan, you seemed to miss the whole point of the question and somehow bring your own topic into this which had no relevance what so ever. Sure the point which you made would have came across very informative with great relevance had the topic been about something that actually suggested limitation towards Satguru Ji. However in this case it did not so therefore it seems you are like the other guy and agreed its ok for the hindu mandir to carry out this beadbi as I explained above. Even though all are worthy of his kirpa this does not mean its ok for hindus to use Guru Granth Sahib Ji in their mandir and surround it with thousands of animal god statues while they do their pooja of their animal gods is it? Isn't this going against guru granth sahib ji and mocking it? What do you expect them to do? To remove all of their statues as well? Not gonna happen, so like I said above, its one or the other. Not both.

[Guest gupt]

If there are Swaroops in libraries, then how is it a problem now if there is a Swaroops where people actually give sharda and faith into the respected Swaroop (rather than sitting in a shelf at a library)???

Tell me which libraries contain a Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroop? I have never head of one. You're most likely talking about English translations of Guru Granth Sahib JI divided into 4 or 5 or 6 parts in libraries. While this is still wrong and unacceptable there is a difference of them being in the library shelf and a actual Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroop in parkash in a mandir, surrounded by idol worship, Big difference. Also there's a difference between 'sharda' and actually having satkar. If they had satkar they wouldn't place the Saroop in the mandir in the first place would they? And how exactly do they have "faith"? There is no faith, if there was they would know better and actually regard Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the true king of kings by abandoning false rituals like idol worship.

[singhbj singh]

Research article on idol worship

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Idol_Worship

[simran345]

Research article on idol worship

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Idol_Worship

Thank you Singhbj Paji, the article also gives Gurbani references on idol worship. So, what Guruji says, I will listen to, idol worship will not benefit me.

[simran345]

In Canada there are many Libraries which I know of that just have the Swaroop in a shelf. Are you aware that many Hindus also have Swaroops in their puja rooms? Will you take that from them too?

Are you sure about the libraries, Preet ji?

[Bundha]

Bhaji, to be honest I was making a general of removing Guru Ji from places other than Gurdwaras I didn’t read the article in question.

Of course any direct beadbi of Guru Sahib Ji should be taken extremely seriously.

When we get avasta we can see that everything is connected. In the cosmos, in the family, in the people we intact with, with the people we pass by on the street we are all connected and akaal resides within all. Who are we so say who is showing the greater beadbi? Who is showing the greater sharda? I have met Hindus in India who have the greatest piyar for Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Yet if one was to look at them we would shake our heads in disgust, “these lallay got piyar for Guru Ji ??? “

Yet we create great beadbi in Guru Ji’s haroozi and just brush it under the carpet, "Oh these things happen."

Satch kahoo sun layho sabhay, jin PREM keeo tin he prabh payoo.

PIYAR is the greatest virtue, within piyar, prem bhagti, one will find Akaal. Was it not a sevak of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji who took bites out of each fruit before putting them in the basket and presented them to Guru Ji out of total love? It would be us FOOLS who would call this great beadbi, the same thing happened to Raam Ji, but I had better not mention them as a mere mention of anything Hindu seems to cause most Sikhs so come out in a fever. Guru-they-piyario we are all the same, there is no outsider.

Was it Bhagat Namdev Ji who found a black dog running off with his roti. We of course would call it great beadbi when Bhagat Ji ran after it with the ghee, “Prabhoo why have you taken the roti but not the ghee?” Bhagat ji shouted because he saw Akaal in everything.

Thakur koe isnaan karo. . . . . Bhagat Ji says we want Thakur to do isnaan but there are 42 lakh joon living in the jall, how can the jall / water be pure ?

I stick by my original point, we need to expand Sikhi and show adhav and satkaar of Guru Ji, Guru Ji is not ours He is of the whole jagat, we are the ones who are full of ego if we think only we show satkaar to Guru Ji. Guru Ji looks after us not the other way. But you are right, I do have no sharda, may Guru Ji take pity on my soul.

[Guest gupt]

In Canada there are many Libraries which I know of that just have the Swaroop in a shelf. Are you aware that many Hindus also have Swaroops in their puja rooms? Will you take that from them too?

I think you are either lying or mistaken, but it seems you have no respect of Satguru Ji or any sharda as you keep referring to it as if its just a book. Such a shame. So go ahead and list EVERY SINGLE LIBRARY that you know of that contains an actual Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroop in Gurmukhi only and has it laying on the shelf. If that really is the case then I wouldn't be surprised because there are no chardi kala tyar bar tyar Gursikhs in Canada who stop beadbi in Maharaj like we do over here in England. Over there they even let these interfaith marriages take place inside the Gurdwara with amritdhari Singhs doing nothing about it. There's been many cases here where families that drink alcohol and eat meat have Guru Granth Sahib Ji locked up inside a cupboard or drawer. As soon as Singh's find out about it we go down and take away the saroop because WE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE GURU, we don't view it as some book like some so called amritdhari's do. So to answer your question "Will you take that from them too?", YES we will take it from them because they have the Guru Granth Sahib Ji without any satkar. If we found out about a hindu family that have Maharaj in their 'puja' rooms YES we will take it. Unlike you or the canadian 'singhs' who just stand by and let everything happen. You don't even realise it, it's like a group or family grabbing Guru Nanak Dev Ji and locking him away in a room without any respect toward's his teachings and message. That's what you have to view this situation as. Not 'oh its just a book and it happens everywhere so lets just do whatever the hell we want'.

[Guest gupt]

Bhaji, to be honest I was making a general of removing Guru Ji from places other than Gurdwaras I didn’t read the article in question.

Of course any direct beadbi of Guru Sahib Ji should be taken extremely seriously.

When we get avasta we can see that everything is connected. In the cosmos, in the family, in the people we intact with, with the people we pass by on the street we are all connected and akaal resides within all. Who are we so say who is showing the greater beadbi? Who is showing the greater sharda? I have met Hindus in India who have the greatest piyar for Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Yet if one was to look at them we would shake our heads in disgust, “these lallay got piyar for Guru Ji ??? “

Yet we create great beadbi in Guru Ji’s haroozi and just brush it under the carpet, "Oh these things happen."

Satch kahoo sun layho sabhay, jin PREM keeo tin he prabh payoo.

PIYAR is the greatest virtue, within piyar, prem bhagti, one will find Akaal. Was it not a sevak of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji who took bites out of each fruit before putting them in the basket and presented them to Guru Ji out of total love? It would be us FOOLS who would call this great beadbi, the same thing happened to Raam Ji, but I had better not mention them as a mere mention of anything Hindu seems to cause most Sikhs so come out in a fever. Guru-they-piyario we are all the same, there is no outsider.

Was it Bhagat Namdev Ji who found a black dog running off with his roti. We of course would call it great beadbi when Bhagat Ji ran after it with the ghee, “Prabhoo why have you taken the roti but not the ghee?” Bhagat ji shouted because he saw Akaal in everything.

Thakur koe isnaan karo. . . . . Bhagat Ji says we want Thakur to do isnaan but there are 42 lakh joon living in the jall, how can the jall / water be pure ?

I stick by my original point, we need to expand Sikhi and show adhav and satkaar of Guru Ji, Guru Ji is not ours He is of the whole jagat, we are the ones who are full of ego if we think only we show satkaar to Guru Ji. Guru Ji looks after us not the other way. But you are right, I do have no sharda, may Guru Ji take pity on my soul.

My original point was true, you are like the typical majority of users who just click on posts and seem to avoid the actual question/topic in hand by presenting your own views and ideas on things which had nothing to even do with the question in the first place. You still did not stick up against the beadbi, but rather "oh yea beadbi should just be taken seriously". Instead of presenting Gurbani which discusses what happens to those who do beadbi of maharaj or those fools that do idol worship, you instead present sakhia which had nothing to do with this topic and a way of somehow avoiding the points I raised in my last post to you.

The whole topic was about why Guru Granth Sahib Ji within a mandir is wrong and beadbi, end of. You instead bring other things like 'fighting in gurdwara and arguments' which happen on a daily basis. Why don't you take those to another thread instead of bringing them here? Does that mean we should just focus on those and forget the real beadbi that is happening in front of our eyes of GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI? Its because you view Satguru Ji as a book and thats all. You need to realise its like taking away Guru Nanak Dev Ji and throwing them away in a room and doing no satkar of them at all. But you don't obviously the difference as you've still said nothing against the hindus who have Guru Granth Sahib Ji in their mandir surrounded by hundreds of animal god statues but keep siding with them and using the typical Sikhi talk 'oh sikhs are full of acceptance and we allow all others to do whatever they want, they can visit gurdwara everyday and eat together on the floor'. It's not going to work.

It's why Satguru Ji says:

LOON HARAAMEE GUNEHAGAAR BAEGAANAA ALAP MATH,

the sinner is unfaithful to himself, he is ignorant, with shallow understanding.

It seems like you didnt even care when all the Guru Granth Sahib Ji was beadbi was happening last year in october/november, Maharaj Saroops are being burned most likely by hindus or some rss and you'd be like 'oh never mind, bhagat ji saw akaal in everyone/everything so we should just leave it'. People like you focus on the smaller issues rather than the bigger ones which I find extremely offensive and shocking as to how people like you so easily brush it off like its no big deal. THIS IS OUR GURU, SABH SIKHAN KO HUKAM HEH GURU MANEO GRANTH. I guess it comes down to individuality them, some people will just have more pyar and sharda for Guru Granth Sahib Ji than others. Some will get more offended and hurt when beadbi of Guru Ji happens will others will just brush it off and try to side with hindus for committing the beadbi. Then they'll do their typical Sikhi talk of acceptance and allowance and that its ok. I mean ajj kall we have goreh breaking into gurdwareh in america, tearing the angs of Satguru Ji and the sangat there are giving him langar afterwards... that just goes to show the low level of Sikhs there who have no sharda, same with Canada. If it happened in UK that goreh would have been beaten to death by Singhs or left with serious injuries in the hospital because truth be told, anyone who can do such a big disrespect to our Guru Ji deserves it.

You do not even have full understanding, "It is Guru Ji who looks after us and not the other way". So that means we should just leave a Maharaj saroop just lying on a palki, without a ramala sahib, without any perahdar/guard all day and expect nobody to commit any beadbi because "It is Guru Ji who looks after us and not the other way"? Wow. Just wow. I think what you just said speaks for itself. Sure, Guru Ji does look after us but we still have to do the fullest and upmost satkaar or Satguru Ji.

Next time try not putting words into others mouths, nobody said hindus didnt have pyaar or that Satguru Ji is limited to a certain religion or faith. The point that still sticks by me and the topic is that the link which was posted by op, those people are committing beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib Ji because they are going against the teachings of the Guru and almost mocking it. The sakhi with Guru Hargobind Ji which you mentioned is a complete difference example as it doesnt mean the person was going against anyones teachings or anything so try not to do that again.

I just cant believe how people brush Guru Granth Sahib Ji's beadbi off so easily and consider it a minor thing and actually stick up for the perpetrators. Just wow.

[Guest gupt]

Amazing post, this is exactly what we have been trying to say.

Nope, playing that card won't work for you. You can't just reply to another guy who's wasted his time on an entire paragraph and take credit by saying "oh this is what we've been trying to say" when all you did was say like 1 or 2 lines and he kind of took the time to explain himself even though he was wrong. The fact of the matter is you are both wrong and you know it. If you had more respect for Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji you would know to do satkaar of the saroop and not just use your mouths all the time to talk about this and that. If you cannot respect your Guru by taking care of it and punishing the dushts who do beadbi of it then shame. I don't mind people who offer alternative methods such as helping and teaching hindus or outer faiths how to keep respect of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but when we have 2 guys here who in NO WAY WHAT SO EVER said anything against the hindus committing the beadbi in the mandir (from the OP's url link), but want to try and defend the hindus or act like doing beadbi is ok then it proves how ashamed you should be of yourselves to utter such nonsense.