Is Guru Granth Sahib Ji Within A Hindu Mandir Beadbi?

[Balkaar]

How much satkar do we give Guru Sahib Ji in our Gurdwaras?

When anand karaj takes place in Guru Ji’s hazoori how much beadbi do we do? Take the way we dress, take the way we totally ignore Guru throughout the ceremony and take the way the photographers and video makers scuttle about trying to get the best shot with total disregard to Guru Ji.

The inappropriate behaviour of certain Sikhs in our Guru Ghars has little to do with this question. Just because some of us commit beadbi, we are supposed to exempt these Hindus from committing beadbi of their own? Our Guru condemns idolatry and astrology. Performing either in their vicinity, as these Hindus are doing, is an insult and the rankest beadbi. How much further will this interfaith nonsense go?

I am shocked at the dhilla sentiments being expressed and supported on this thread. In a time when saroops are being burned regularly, are you lot seriously suggesting we make them more freely available so that gods knows who can get their paws on them and do god knows what with them? We have to protect our Guru, and the surest way to do this is to keep them in our Gurdware where their devoted Sikhs can ensure their safety. Do anything else, and there is no way to know that our Guru is not being mistreated.

I agree that all can get laha from Maharaj ji, but placing them with other, such as murtia/idols I don't agree with

Of course everyone in this world has a right to our Guru's giaan. But any Hindu who bows before an idol, representative of a religion loaded with superstition and ritual, then shifs a couple of meters to the right to bow before something which condemns their idolatry, superstition and ritual in no uncertain terms, is either very deluded or very dishonest. You can't have the Guru and these idols both.

[Singh559]

The inappropriate behaviour of certain Sikhs in our Guru Ghars has little to do with this question. Just because some of us commit beadbi, we are supposed to exempt these Hindus from committing beadbi of their own? Our Guru condemns idolatry and astrology. Performing either in their vicinity, as these Hindus are doing, is an insult and the rankest beadbi. How much further will this interfaith nonsense go?

I am shocked at the dhilla sentiments being expressed and supported on this thread. In a time when saroops are being burned regularly, are you lot seriously suggesting we make them more freely available so that gods knows who can get their paws on them and do god knows what with them? We have to protect our Guru, and the surest way to do this is to keep them in our Gurdware where their devoted Sikhs can ensure their safety. Do anything else, and there is no way to know that our Guru is not being mistreated.

Of course everyone in this world has a right to our Guru's giaan. But any Hindu who bows before an idol, representative of a religion loaded with superstition and ritual, then shifs a couple of meters to the right to bow before something which condemns their idolatry, superstition and ritual in no uncertain terms, is either very deluded or very dishonest. You can't have the Guru and these idols both.

I'm not surprised anymore. Liberal houn da vi koi anth ah. Sikh oh ah jehrde aavde asoolan te kharday.

Lohkan vich te Sikhan vich ki farkh rehgya je ehs gall te vi hippy-liberal wala kam kariye.

Bezti da vi koi hadh ah Punjabio

[Balkaar]

I'm not surprised anymore. Liberal houn da vi koi anth ah. Sikh oh ah jehrde aavde asoolan te kharday.

Lohkan vich te Sikhan vich ki farkh rehgya je ehs gall te vi hippy-liberal wala kam kariye.

Bezti da vi koi hadh ah Punjabio

The most popular of these liberal distortions of Sikhi is the classic "we Sikhs respect all faiths equally, asee kise dharam de virodh nahi karde, kise marag de takha nahi maarde... Saraay dharam nadiyaan hai, par samundar de vicch jurdhai bla bla bla..." How could this be a Sikh tenet considering our Gurus told people exactly what they thought about their superstitions in terms which any member of the PC Brigade, if they heard them today, would consider extremely offensive?

If Guru Nanak had been alive today and said the things he did, the liberals would go mental and demand that he issue a press release and apologize for his Islamophobia/Hinduphobia, the fools.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

If Guru Nanak had been alive today and said the things he did, the liberals would go mental and demand that he issue a press release and apologize for his Islamophobia/Hinduphobia, the fools.

I highly doubt Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji would bow his head to manmukhs, (unlike some people today), he would probably be against the beadbi happening to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, (his current form), if someone was doing Anand Karaj pakhand.

[simran345]

Of course everyone in this world has a right to our Guru's giaan. But any Hindu who bows before an idol, representative of a religion loaded with superstition and ritual, then shifs a couple of meters to the right to bow before something which condemns their idolatry, superstition and ritual in no uncertain terms, is either very deluded or very dishonest. You can't have the Guru and these idols both.

Hanji I totally agree with this, exactly what I was thinking.

Nobody can stop anybody from having darshan of Maharaj ji, but bowing to idols and then bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, is going against what Guruji is telling us, that even devi/devtas are asking for Naam from Waheguru Akaal Purakh, so it doesn't make sense to bow to the statues and then to Guruji.

ਜਿਸੁ ਨਾਮੈ ਕਉ ਤਰਸਹਿ ਬਹੁ ਦੇਵਾ ॥

जिसु नामै कउ तरसहि बहु देवा ॥

Jis nāmai ka▫o ṯarsėh baho ḏevā.

The Lord's Name, for which crave many gods,

ਸਗਲ ਭਗਤ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਸੇਵਾ ॥

सगल भगत जा की करदे सेवा ॥

Sagal bẖagaṯ jā kī karḏe sevā. whose service all the devotes perform,

ਅਨਾਥਾ ਨਾਥੁ ਦੀਨ ਦੁਖ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਸੋ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਤੇ ਪਾਇਣਾ ॥੩॥

अनाथा नाथु दीन दुख भंजनु सो गुर पूरे ते पाइणा ॥३॥

Anāthā nāth ḏīn ḏukẖ bẖanjan so gur pūre ṯe pā▫iṇā. ||3||

and who is the Patron of the patronless and is the Destroyer of the pain of the poor; that Name is obtained through the Perfect Guru.

SGGS ji Ang 1078

And why can't those people go to the Gurdwara to have darshan of Maharaj ji, like everybody else? No other dharm/faith has mixed two faiths together in one place of worship, so why should Guruji be treated any differently and wrongly?

People or other faiths should be educated on why and not just be told not to, as they will respect the teachings of Guruji too. Something similar happened within the Sindhi community and then they apologised in front of Maharaj ji and asked for forgiveness for what they were doing wrong and it was sorted out amicably. Same thing should be done here too.

[Balkaar]

Something similar happened within the Sindhi community and then they apologised in front of Maharaj ji and asked for forgiveness for what they were doing wrong and it was sorted out amicably. Same thing should be done here too.

Interesting, what happened there bhenji?

[singhbj singh]

Religion; unites as well as divides !

It is a catch 22 situation.

paakhaan gadd kai moorath keenaee dhae kai shaathee paao |

The sculptor carves the stone and fashions it into an idol, placing his feet upon its chest.

jae eaeh moorath saachee hai tho garraanehaarae khaao |3|

If this stone god was true, it would devour the sculptor for this! ||3||

Source - http://igurbani.com/?shabadid=1781&id=21550#bmb=1

[singhbj singh]

You forgot to give source

http://igurbani.com/?shabadid=3012&id=34132#bmb=1

[simran345]

Interesting, what happened there bhenji?

I think it was something to do with somebody not covering their head. If I recall correctly, there was a thread on this forum about it.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪੂਜਾਰੀ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੩॥

आप ही पूजारी आप ही देवा ॥३॥

Āp hī pūjārī āp hī ḏevā. ||3||

He Himself is the worshipper, and He Himself is the idol. ||3||

ਉਹ ਖੁਦ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਖੁਦ ਹੀ ਪੱਥਰ ਦਾ ਦੇਵਤਾ।

But this does not mean we should worship stone idols.

If you read the whole Ang, then one will see the context it is written in.

ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੪

रागु बिलावलु महला ५ घरु ४

Rāg bilāval mėhlā 5 gẖar 4

Rag Bilawal 5th Guru.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

There is but One God. By the True Guru's grace, He is obtained.

ਏਕ ਰੂਪ ਸਗਲੋ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥

एक रूप सगलो पासारा ॥

Ėk rūp saglo pāsārā.

The entire universe is the manifestation of One God.

ਆਪੇ ਬਨਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਬਿਉਹਾਰਾ ॥੧॥

आपे बनजु आपि बिउहारा ॥१॥

Āpe banaj āp bi▫uhārā. ||1||

The Lord Himself is the trade and Himself is the Trader.

ਐਸੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਬਿਰਲੋ ਈ ਪਾਏ ॥

ऐसो गिआनु बिरलो ई पाए ॥

Aiso gi▫ān birlo ī pā▫e.

Some rare one is blessed with such an understanding,

ਜਤ ਜਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਤ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

जत जत जाईऐ तत द्रिसटाए ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Jaṯ jaṯ jā▫ī▫ai ṯaṯ ḏaristā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.

wheresoever I go, thither I see Him. Pause.

ਅਨਿਕ ਰੰਗ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਇਕ ਰੰਗਾ ॥

अनिक रंग निरगुन इक रंगा ॥

Anik rang nirgun ik rangā.

The Unqualitative Lord of one form assumes many forms in the qualitative state.

ਆਪੇ ਜਲੁ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਤਰੰਗਾ ॥੨॥

आपे जलु आप ही तरंगा ॥२॥

Āpe jal āp hī ṯarangā. ||2||

He Himself is the water and Himself the waves.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਆਪਹਿ ਸੇਵਾ ॥

आप ही मंदरु आपहि सेवा ॥

Āp hī manḏar āpėh sevā.

He Himself is the temple and himself the worship.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪੂਜਾਰੀ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੩॥

आप ही पूजारी आप ही देवा ॥३॥

Āp hī pūjārī āp hī ḏevā. ||3||

Himself He is the worshipper and Himself the idol.

ਆਪਹਿ ਜੋਗ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜੁਗਤਾ ॥

आपहि जोग आप ही जुगता ॥

Āpėh jog āp hī jugṯā.

The Lord Himself is the science of union and Himself the way of union.

ਨਾਨਕ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਦ ਹੀ ਮੁਕਤਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੬॥

नानक के प्रभ सद ही मुकता ॥४॥१॥६॥

Nānak ke parabẖ saḏ hī mukṯā. ||4||1||6||

Ever detached is the Lord of Nanak,

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

बिलावलु महला ५ ॥

Bilāval mėhlā 5.

Bilawal 5th Guru.

ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਵਨ ਆਪਿ ਸਧਰਨਾ ॥

आपि उपावन आपि सधरना ॥

Āp upāvan āp saḏẖarnā.

Himself the Lord creates and Himself He supports.

ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਵਨ ਦੋਸੁ ਨ ਲੈਨਾ ॥੧॥

आपि करावन दोसु न लैना ॥१॥

Āp karāvan ḏos na lainā. ||1||

Himself the Lord makes men do the deeds and takes not blame on Himself.

ਆਪਨ ਬਚਨੁ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕਰਨਾ ॥

आपन बचनु आप ही करना ॥

Āpan bacẖan āp hī karnā.

He Himself is the instruction and Himself the Instructor.

ਆਪਨ ਬਿਭਉ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜਰਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

आपन बिभउ आप ही जरना ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Āpan bibẖa▫o āp hī jarnā. ||1|| rahā▫o.

He Himself is the splendour and Himself the Endurer there of. Pause.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਸਟਿ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਬੁਲਨਾ ॥

आप ही मसटि आप ही बुलना ॥

Āp hī masat āp hī bulnā.

Himself He is Mute and Himself the utterer.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਅਛਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਛਲਨਾ ॥੨॥

आप ही अछलु न जाई छलना ॥२॥

Āp hī acẖẖal na jā▫ī cẖẖalnā. ||2||

Himself is He Undeceivable and cannot be deceived.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਗੁਪਤ ਆਪਿ ਪਰਗਟਨਾ ॥

आप ही गुपत आपि परगटना ॥

Āp hī gupaṯ āp pargatnā.

Himself is He unmanifest and Himself Manifest.

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਆਪਿ ਅਲਿਪਨਾ ॥੩॥

आप ही घटि घटि आपि अलिपना ॥३॥

Āp hī gẖat gẖat āp alipanā. ||3|| Himself He pervades all the hearts and Himself remains detached.

ਆਪੇ ਅਵਿਗਤੁ ਆਪ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਚਨਾ ॥

आपे अविगतु आप संगि रचना ॥

Āpe avigaṯ āp sang racẖnā.

He Himself is Absolute and Himself is He with the World.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ਸਭਿ ਜਚਨਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੭॥

कहु नानक प्रभ के सभि जचना ॥४॥२॥७॥

Kaho Nānak parabẖ ke sabẖ jacẖnā. ||4||2||7||

Says Nanak, all are the beggars of the Lord.

SGGS ji Ang 803

Guru ji is telling us that everything is under the Hukam of Waheguru. They are not telling us to worship stone idols, etc, but the one and only Lord, Waheguru, God.

Note, the first pangti:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

There is but One God. By the True Guru's grace, He is obtained.

And the last pangti:

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ਸਭਿ ਜਚਨਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੭॥

कहु नानक प्रभ के सभि जचना ॥४॥२॥७॥

Kaho Nānak parabẖ ke sabẖ jacẖnā. ||4||2||7||

Says Nanak, all are the beggars of the Lord.

[simran345]

Religion; unites as well as divides !

It is a catch 22 situation.

paakhaan gadd kai moorath keenaee dhae kai shaathee paao |

The sculptor carves the stone and fashions it into an idol, placing his feet upon its chest.

jae eaeh moorath saachee hai tho garraanehaarae khaao |3|

If this stone god was true, it would devour the sculptor for this! ||3||

Source - http://igurbani.com/?shabadid=1781&id=21550#bmb=1

Paji Singhbj, it's not a catch 22 situation, Guruji makes it simple and clear, that it is not fruitful to worship any other than Waheguru, Akaal Purakh, but people will make excuses and twist Gurbani to please themselves only.