A better world without Religion???

[Dal_Khalsa]

wjkk wjkf

I want to know the sangats view on the topic which was disscussed in my college's Annual funtion under the banner of 'Red-Hot Issuses'. The topic of the discussion was "Would this world have been a better place to live, had there not been any mainstream Religion?"

I would request everyone in the group to please contribute to it. "And please be careful not to make it a Big-Fight " which it had become in my college.

Fateh

[Sunny]

wjkk wjkf

I want to know the sangats view on the topic which was disscussed in my college's Annual funtion under the banner of 'Red-Hot Issuses'. The topic of the discussion was  "Would this world have been a better place to live, had there not been any mainstream Religion?"

I would request everyone in the group to please contribute to it. "And please be careful not to make it a Big-Fight  " which it had become in my college.

Fateh

What college do you go to? :T:

To answer the question, I don't think the world would be a better place without mainstream religion! If that was the case, the world would not have a body of beliefs and rituals to follow that gives people their identity. We would be lost and confused about matters related to divinity. Where would be find a set of moral principles and guidelines? How would we distinguish between right and wrong? Anarchical governments would reign. Keep in mind the rights we have today were accorded to us by the Constitution, which in turn were influenced

by religion.

One thing I noticed is that most religions tell us to treat each other with respect and equally. By asking would this world be a better place without mainstream religion, you would have a world where the ideals of equal treatment and respect are not present in our thoughts and culture. Respect for humanity, equality and all that other stuff originated from religious thought.

My 7.56654 rupees *Note: 2 cents Canadian (CAN) converted to Indian rupees (INR) based on current market values*

^

- Sunny

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru vaheguru

ik oaankar satnam karta purkh nirbhau nirvair akaal morrath ajoone sahibhang gur prsad

jap

aad sach jugaad sach hai bhee sach nanak hosee bhee sach

we must praise vaheguru je

how can we do that without a path??

many people say religion divides man

no

man divides man

if religion divides man, then people are saying we should all be exactly the same

same eye colour, same hair colour, etc.

man divides man

in this jug the path of gurmath is a unique and special one

we need it to do get darshan of vaheguru je

it would not be a better world without praise of god

it will be the worst narak ever

evil woul run the world

relgion tells us many good things like help other people, be kind, justice, etc.

if there was no relgion, then wat are we doing here

wake up everyday, do our work, do stuff we shdunt do like drink, etc.

go home sleep

wake up again

same routine

then one day that will end

then it is no longer ure choice

even if u beg for naam there, u will not recieve it

we are very lucky that god made this dharamsaal for us to read bani and praise vaheguru je

we shud be happy, not question it

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[lil_lil_singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

the world would a horrible place without religon :wub:

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

Hindu muslims riots in India have been horrific all along !!

Mostly its hindu mobs massacring innocent muslims with police assistance !

Hinduism through castism, dowry, bali(sacrifices), devdasis has caused more anguish to humanity than anything else I know of !

[Pheena]

Hindu muslims riots in India have been horrific all along !!

Mostly its hindu mobs massacring innocent muslims with police assistance !

Hinduism through castism, dowry, bali(sacrifices), devdasis has caused more anguish to humanity than anything else I know of !

Sikhs also have the highest murder rate of unborn Girls. That does not make Sikhi bad or does it.

or should it be Punjabis not Sikhs? So who is a Hindu. If a Hindu was a 'HINDU" there would be no massacre. If a Muslim was a Muslim of Mohammed there would be no Riots. If a Sikh was a SIKH of Guru Nanak all would be Divine.

Now does that exist? Religion is not at fault but the individual Ego which associate itself with a religion. So the Ego becomes the Representative of that religion and ultimatly the representative for the one who started the religion.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

kuran very strongly speaks against other religions, read the kuran

hindu is blind musalman has one eye

from the mouth of guru je himself

:wub:

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[pavandeep]

Sikhi is a way of life, its the one true religion...

The following is from Bachitar Natak...

http://www.lotusmedia.co.uk/sikhstudent/library.htm

DESCRIPTION OF AKAAL PURKH

THROUGH THIS LOWLY CREATURE, SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH

CHAUPAYEE

When I, the Akaalpurakh, first created the universe,

Amongst my creations turned out to be miserly-inflicting-demons;

They became mad with their mystical and muscular powers, and

They would not worship the adorable Creator. ( 6)

* Yaadovanshi Raja Shaantnoo’s second son who was the father of Yudhishtar, Bheem, and

Arjan, etc, the five pandvaas

Then, out of anger, I destroyed them all in a short time;

And, instead, I created gods and angels.

They, too, mustered considerable power and glorification;

And, started assuming to be God themselves. (7)

Shiva started to call himself Immortal;

Vishnu also equated himself to the Creator;

Brahma called himself the Supreme, and

No one considered the Lord as the Lord. (8)

Then, I (Waheguru) created eight witnesses, the sun, moon, fire, wind,

Yamma, element, axis and Dhruv,

To certify the existence of the Lord;

And ordered them to worship the Akaalpurakh, and declared

That there was no one else worshippable. (9)

Those who didn’t, or couldn’t, recognize the Supreme;

Started calling themselves as the Ultimate.

Many started worshipping the Sun and the Moon,

And many accepted the powers of fire and the wind. (10)

Some called the stone, the Saligram, the Waheguru;

Some, taking the baths regularly started calling the water, the

Supreme.

>Many got scared indulging in various forms of acts and imitations,

But Dharamraaj recognized and accepted only the Infinite. (ii)

When the Omnipotent could produce witnesses for His cause;

When they came to this world, they would start calling themselves the

Divinity;

The real meaning of the Immortal would be forgotten;

They all got worried about their own glory and splendor. (12)

When none of them accepted the existence of the Eternal,

The Lord created the progeny of the mind, the human beings;

They, too, got under the influence of worldly attachments,

And started assuming the statues, and idols of stone as the Providence.

(13)

Then the Lord created the saints and seers;

They, too, didn’t acknowledge the All-powerful.

If someone was made intelligent and wise enough,

He/she, too, started his/her own sect or religion. (14)

No one recognized or attained the Supreme Being;

In fact, they all increased the divisions and ambiguities;

They would promulgate their own traditions and rules,

And, no one would, after having been indoctrinated by the cult leaders,

follow Akaalpurakh’s commands.

(15)

Whosoever attained even an iota of ‘powers’,

Would initiate their own religious divisions;

No one gave cognizance to the Creator;

Rather, became mad and insane by continuously indulging in covetedness

(ego, I am).(16)

The principal essence was not recognized nor appreciated by any one;

Each one was involved in a variety of vanities;

Again, when He created kings and ascetics;

They, too, initiated actions in favor of their own memories - Simritis.

(17)

As they became devotees of these memorial descriptions,

They went farther and farther away from the tradition of the

Omniscient;

Those who concentrated in the feet (humility) of the Benefactor,

They did not come even near the tracks of the Simritis. (18)

Brahma created four Vedas,

And preached only the actions and deeds prescribed/described therein

and made the

m prevalent amongst the people;

Those whose concentration was confined to the love of His feet,

Would have abnegated themselves from the Vedas. (19)

Those who relinquished their dependence on books and Vedas,

They became the true adherents of the Preserver;

Their advice was based on true sermons,

Many miseries of various kinds were ground and destroyed under them.

(20)

Those who even bore tortures over their bodies, (to be able to attain

Him)

They would not give up their adoration for the Lord; (this is a strange

paradox)

They would gradually move towards the land of Waheguru;

And, then, there remained no difference between them and the Absolute.

(21)

Those who were terrified by the books, the Vedas,

They would abandon His path, and acquiesce to their commands;

They would, ultimately, go to the hell, inferno region, and

Would continue to be revolving in the cycles of births and deaths. (22)

Then the Lord created Duttatrey, the founder of ascetics (jogis);

He, too, started his own religion;

He decorated his hands and nails, and locks of his hair,

But did not follow the teachings and the advice of the Preserver. (23)

With Akaalpurakh’s blessings was created the Gorakh,

His disciples considered him, the Gorakh, the loftiest king;

Piercing their ears, they wore earrings, and

Did not pay attention to either the love of God or the modes of

meditation. (24)

The Lord, then, blessed Ramanand;

He clad himself like a recluse;

He started wearing and playing with a necklace of wood;

No one ever thought about the practices and the traditions of the

Absolute. (25)

If God created saintly persons,

They, too, directed people towards their own self styled paths;

God, then, created Mohammed, and

Bestowed upon him the kingship of Arabia. (26)

He, too, created another religion, and

Produced princes without the religious symbols, hair, sacred thread,

and their complete form;

He made everyone to meditate on his

own name, and

He never preached nor confirmed the name of the Truth, the Waheguru.

(27)

Everyone pushed his own concepts, and

No one gave recognition to the Infinite Spirit;

Then, the Gum says, “The Lord called me while I was meditating; and

He said the following and sent me to this world”. (28)AKAALPURAKH BAACH

CHAUPAYEE

I am designating you as my son;

I am extending the privilege to you of being my son)

I am creating you to spread my message;

You organize a true religion down there in the world,

And prevent the worldly people from falling into the practice of fake

actions (in stead of remembering Waheguru). (29)

DOHRAA

I, (Gobind Singh), then stood up with folded hands,

And said some words with a bowed head.

The path of ‘truth’ can prosper in this world only

If You, the Waheguru, are by my side. (30)

CHAUPAYEE

For this mission, I was sent to the earth;

Then, I took birth in this materialistic world.

I am relating to you, the worldly people, exactly the way, Akaalpurakh

told me;

I will not invite animosity from any one else. (31)

Those people who would call me (Gobind Singh) the Immortal Waheguru

Would be thrown into deep hellish infernos;

Consider me the servant of the Infinite; but

There is not even an iota of a difference bewteen Him and me. (32)

I am the servitor of the Supreme Being;

I have come to observe the worldly drama;

I am saying whatever the great Master of the universe has asked me to

say;

I will not remain quiet for the mortal world. (33)

NARAAJ CHHAND

I am conveying exactly whatever the Lord said;

I am saying it all without any bias or favor to anyone;

I will not blend with anyone’s fakery;

Rather, I will sow the seeds for the unaccountable Waheguru’s Naam.

(34)

I do not worship the statues of stone (or the stone):

Nor do I get impressed with anyone’s guise;

I sing the praises of the Naam of the Endless;

And I have attai

ned the Ultimate, the Waheguru. (35)

I will not acquire the matted hair (tresses);

Nor will I wear big earrings;

I will not favor anyone;

And will do only whatever the Everlasting dictates me to do. (36)

I will worship only One’s Naam, and only one Naam;

That can be employed and be useful under all circumstances;

I will not worship anyone else

Nor will I seek anyone else’s support and protection. (37)

I have meditated only on the Naam of the Infinity;

Have attained the Supreme Flame, the Immortal Lord;

I do not meditate on any other’s name

Nor will I ever utter anyone else’s name. (38)

I am engrossed only in One’s Naam,

And am not involved nor interested with egotistic or vane thoughts;

I am contemplating on the Supreme Waheguru;

Thus, am able to wipe off endless sins. (39)

I am permeating only Your shape and form, 0 Waheguru!

I will not be happy in someone’s donations nor will I be contended in

someone’s giving any kind of alms; neither of these activities will

give me pleasure.

I will repeat only His Naam,

Which will erase countless misdeeds. (40)

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

Sikhs also have the highest murder rate of unborn Girls. That does not make Sikhi bad or does it.

or should it be Punjabis not Sikhs? So who is a Hindu. If a Hindu was a 'HINDU" there would be no massacre. If a Muslim was a Muslim of Mohammed there would be no Riots. If a Sikh was a SIKH of Guru Nanak all would be Divine.

Guru Gobind Singh explicitly ordained that His sikhs would have nothing to do with 'kurimaars' - ppl who indulged in female infanticide. The 'sikhs' who do that are going against guru's hukam and are therefore not sikhs.

On the other hand 'real' hinduism actually encourages violence and brutalities against the downtrodden and lower caste - according to Manu's laws -

If a shudra reads Purana his tongue should be chopped off.

If he sits with a brahmin - his buttocks should be cut off.

He should be thrown out of the temple if he ever dares enter it.

Ramcharitmanas( one of the many hindu religious texts ) says women, animals drums and lower caste ppl are all fit to be beaten.

There are still incidents of bali (sacrifice) in India wherein young children are killed at the altar of goddeess Durga/Kali.

In traditional hinduism Dana - (charity) is for brahmin and not for the needy.

Hinduism is a group of evil beliefs propagated by powerful brahmins and kshatriyas to take advantage of other castes - Devdasi sys

tem was one of those which led to exploitation of women for centuries - all in name of religion.

The characters of the mythology heroes are exposed in books like "Ramayana the poisonous tree" written by a hindu. Krishna's story is utterly ridiculous - If kansa knew that the son of (I dont remember the names) is going to kill him why did he put the man and the woman in the same prison cell . In the 'is Ram worth it' thread I have quoted numerous references from SGGS and Guru Gobind's writings conveying guru's regards for these dieties & pls dont post another link of that RSS type hindu lady - it is she who's misinterpreting gurbani and not me.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040915/edit.htm

For greatness of islam please read

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

The world is thankfully a better place because ppl dont follow hinduism and islam to the letter.

[Guest SaintSoldier]

The world would not be a better place without religion. But bad things happen when people give into politicians. Religion is a powerful tool for politicians (especially India) to create divide and maximize votes. What we can do is to see through their plan.