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californiasardar1

Number of young dastar-wearing Sikh women compared to number of young dastar-wearing (non-trimming) Sikh men

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Hello,

I would like to get SikhSangat's observations on the number of dastar-wearing Sikh women compared to the number of dastar-wearing (non-trimming, sabat surat) Sikh men under the age of 40 (I am most interested in the younger generation).

It will be very interesting to see what Sikhs who live in the different part of the world have observed.  Please state where you live, and whether your observation pertains to your locality, or if you believe it to be global (or over a wider geographic range than the area where you live).

 

Please state your answer in the following format:

"My observation is that for every non-trimming young Sikh man who wears a dastar, there are three young Sikh women who wear dastars"

or

"My observation is that for every young Sikh woman who wears a dastar, there are four non-trimming young Sikh men who wear dastars"

 

You get the idea

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My observation is that for every 10 Sikh man (may or may not be a Singh) wearing a Dastaar, there is 1 Sikh women (almost always a Kaur) who wears a Dastaar. 

The amount of women who wear Dastaars is and has always been lower than men, this is because historically and even today the dastaar is seen as more masculine by society. There is also the issue of higher beauty standards for women, that don’t affect men that much. 

Those women who do wear Dastaars, are always Kaur’s, Sikh women who have received Khand Di Phaul initiation into the Khalsa Panth. 

Edited by TheeTurbanator
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19 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Those women who do wear Dastaars, are always Kaur’s, Sikh women who have received Khand Di Phaul initiation into the Khalsa Panth. 

That seems like a stereotype, I dont wear a dastar and Im amritdhari. Also, my sister who is older than me wore a dastar but isnt amritdhari. Theres  a khalsa school near us and I dont know if Id be able to label all of the dastar wearing people as amritdhari. There are so many amritdhari kaurs, a bunch dont wear dastars, rather chunnis/ramals.

Edited by Preeet

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35 minutes ago, Preeet said:

That seems like a stereotype, I dont wear a dastar and Im amritdhari. Also, my sister who is older than me wore a dastar but isnt amritdhari. Theres  a khalsa school near us and I dont know if Id be able to label all of the dastar wearing people as amritdhari. There are so many amritdhari kaurs, a bunch dont wear dastars, rather chunnis/ramals.

 

 

Where do you live?  And how old are the Kaurs who you are referring to?

 

My observation is that, in the west, a woman wearing a dastar may not necessarily be amritdhari, but if she is amritdhari (and under the age of 40), there is a 99% chance she wears a dastar. 

Among older women, wearing a dastar appears to be more rare, and my guess is that most amritdhari women who are 50+ years of age do not wear dastars.

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3 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

 

Where do you live?  And how old are the Kaurs who you are referring to?

 

My observation is that, in the west, a woman wearing a dastar may not necessarily be amritdhari, but if she is amritdhari (and under the age of 40), there is a 99% chance she wears a dastar. 

Among older women, wearing a dastar appears to be more rare, and my guess is that most amritdhari women who are 50+ years of age do not wear dastars.

Im from Canada ji. The Kaurs would be under 35. Even at the amritsanchar I was at I think there were others who just had chunnis/ramals. I just think that theres more amritdhari girls than people expect since its hard to tell when we keep our kirpan sahib ji under our clothes and have a ramal. 

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2 minutes ago, Preeet said:

Im from Canada ji. The Kaurs would be under 35. Even at the amritsanchar I was at I think there were others who just had chunnis/ramals. I just think that theres more amritdhari girls than people expect since its hard to tell when we keep our kirpan sahib ji under our clothes and have a ramal. 

 

I see, I am surprised to hear that, as it is quite different from what I have observed.  Thanks for enlightening me! 

Where in Canada are you from?  BC?  Or GTA?

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16 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

I see, I am surprised to hear that, as it is quite different from what I have observed.  Thanks for enlightening me! 

Where in Canada are you from?  BC?  Or GTA?

BC : ) but to be fair, I usually tie a dastar during amritvela nitnem ji. Im not really good at tying it though so then I take it off afterwards. 

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28 minutes ago, Preeet said:

That seems like a stereotype, I dont wear a dastar and Im amritdhari. Also, my sister who is older than me wore a dastar but isnt amritdhari. Theres  a khalsa school near us and I dont know if Id be able to label all of the dastar wearing people as amritdhari. There are so many amritdhari kaurs, a bunch dont wear dastars, rather chunnis/ramals.

It is a stereotype and a lie as it follows the same one for men and Singh.

Actions and appearance define the name gifted to us from Guru pita ji - one without the other just doesn't work.

 

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4 hours ago, Preeet said:

That seems like a stereotype, I dont wear a dastar and Im amritdhari.

If you give your head to the Guru, and dont want to represent the Khalsa identity by wearing a Dastaar , then thats your choice, im just stating what I have personally seen in my community where i live. I literally said at the top if my comment that its my observation, im not passing it off as face and saying my opinions are statistically factual or anything. 

What I have personalty noticed is that those Sikh women who wear a Dastaar are almost allways initiated into the Khalsa Panth: Kaur. I didnt state that ALL who are initiated wear Dastaars, just that in my expedience those who happen to wear one are initiated, you are conflating the two. 

 

4 hours ago, Preeet said:

Also, my sister who is older than me wore a dastar but isnt amritdhari.

Respect to your sister, you as a Kaur should try to do the same. 

4 hours ago, Preeet said:

. There are so many amritdhari kaurs

In case you didnt pick up on it before in my comment, I define a Kaur as a Sikh women who has received Khand Di Phaul (Amrit). The entire point of a Sikh changing their last name to Singh or Kaur is that they go through a transformation to become initiated into the Khalsa Panth and become reborn into the Khalsa Family. Not even a single Guru, even Guru Gobind Singh Ji (who was previopusly known as Gobind Rai) was born with Singh or Kaur, it was only after the Guru received Khand Di Phaul and was the 6th person to be initated (first 5 were panj pyare) did he call himself a Singh.

Sikhi, especially the Khalsa Sub tradition is not passed on through blood or culture, its earned through individual merit. Singh and Kaur was once an honorable title, when a Singh would get on a train, people would feel safe, now the once honorable Khalsa titles are diluted by Punjabi culture...but thats a story for another time. 

Edited by TheeTurbanator

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3 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

Among older women, wearing a dastar appears to be more rare, and my guess is that most amritdhari women who are 50+ years of age do not wear dastars.

Historically speaking, Sikh women would very rarely wear a Dastaar, and about 150 to 200 years ago, Sikh women would also rarely by initiated using the Khand Di Phaul ceremony. Sikh women would historcualy tie a top knot, and cover it with a chunni. Some would wear a patka type of material. The key here is that Sikh women would almost allways cover their hair, especially in Public. The Dastaar was very popular for most Sikh men, and seen as a requirement for Singhs, those Sikh men who are initiated into the Khalsa Panth. Just notice the different standards for genders here. 

It seems that the rise of the dastaar for Sikh women is a recent phenomenon of women wanting to identity more with their Sikh roots, especially in the west I have noticed. The dastaar for women is also something thats really popular among the sect of the Khalsa Panth called the "AKJ", who generally believe that both genders should wear it, and even have a Keski as a Kakar. 

I studied in India for about 5-6 years, and almost never saw a Dastaar wearing Sikh women, or even Kaur. However in Canada, they are all over the place. I just recently came back from Punjab, and honestly, not much has changed, and you cant tell a Kaur apart from your average Hindu. The Kaurs, especially in India, dont have as strong as an identity as Singhs do. They dont even wear the same top knot style that Sikh women historically did. 

Edited by TheeTurbanator

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2 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

Actions and appearance define the name gifted to us from Guru pita ji - one without the other just doesn't work.

 

No one here, including myself, is advocating that external identity by itself without proper actions will work. Im literally just stating my observations. 

 

Quote

It is a stereotype and a lie as it follows the same one for men and Singh.

Its not a stereotype or a lie, its my observation as I clearly said at the top of my comment. 

As for Singhs, its obvious that 99% of Singhs regularly wear the Dastaar, whole the same cannot be said for Kaurs. 

My argument was never that every single Sikh man or Women wears a dastaar as a "fact", my observation was that out of Sikh women who wear a Dastaar, almost all of them happen to be initiated into the Khalsa Panth, this isnt the same as saying that out of those who are initiated almost all wear dastaars. 

You need to learn how to read and contemplate what other people are saying before you accuse others of stereotyping or lying. 

Edited by TheeTurbanator

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26 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

No one here, including myself, is advocating that external identity by itself without proper actions will work. Im literally just stating my observations.

Its not a stereotype or a lie, its my observation as I clearly said at the top of my comment. 

As for Singhs, its obvious that 99% of Singhs regularly wear the Dastaar, whole the same cannot be said for Kaurs. 

My argument was never that every single Sikh man or Women wears a dastaar as a "fact", my observation was that out of Sikh women who wear a Dastaar, almost all of them happen to be initiated into the Khalsa Panth, this isnt the same as saying that out of those who are initiated almost all wear dastaars. 

You need to learn how to read and contemplate what other people are saying before you accuse others of stereotyping or lying. 

My post only disagreed with the last sentence, which was highlighted in bold and quoted by another poster. Open your eyes and read them again.

5 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Those women who do wear Dastaars, are always Kaur’s

You can't call a woman a princess by what she wears on her head - look at their actions too. The same goes for men and Singhs.

Many who decide to practice Sikhi will have a dark past, therefore these gifts will continue to lose their meaning.

Panjabi culture is the main reason for this but there other external causes i.e. muslim grooming, hindu extremists and whitey colonial arrogance. These continue to attack Sikhi today by changing mindsets that lead us away from Guru ji. It's a faceless war that our community are unable to understand let alone contain.

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1 minute ago, GuestSingh said:

You can't call a woman a princess by what she wears on her head - look at their actions too.

Again, no one is making that argument. You are literally taking my statement out of context and creating a strawman fallacy. If you properly read my original comment, I had already defined a "Kaur" by the action of receiving Khand Di Phaul, NOT by "what she wears on her head", this by itself is already enough to dispel your stupid strawman argument. 

Oh and by the way, "Kaur" doesn't mean princess, it means next in line for the thrown, its a gender neutral term, and there has been a Khalsa by the name of Akali Kaur Singh who used Kaur in his name, is he a princess too? 

6 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

My post only disagreed with the last sentence, which was highlighted in bold and quoted by another poster. Open your eyes and read them again.

7 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

You, and her both took that statement out of context, and dont understand the meaning behind it. I was specifically reffering to my personal observation that I have seen where those who Sikh women who do wear a Dastaar happen to allways be initiated. It cant be a stereotype or a lie becuase its my personal observation, im not stating its a fact that holds true for every single area around the world. 

You and her are both so disingenuous and are fighting over a strawman fallacy you created in your own minds. You dont have a valid argument so you have to deliberately change and misrepresent what the other person is saying to attack them. Im done wasting my time with you people. 

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