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TejS

Question about Guru Gobind Singh Ji's decision?

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Firstly, I mean no disrespect and am not trying to cause any trouble with this question. It is a genuine concern of mine that I have been having trouble finding an answer to.

So I've been thinking about the promise Aurangzeb and his generals gave to Guru Gobind Singh Ji by swearing and taking an oath on the Quran. It is mentioned in the Zafarnama too.

Considering the Quran is not the word of God, and therefore is a tampered or a fabricated text, why would Guruji even accept an oath on a false text? Given that he knows the text is false, he should have no reason to believe them? Right?

Also, as @jkvlondon has informed me, Guru Gobind Singh Ji also accepted oaths by the Hindu Hill Rajas on their Gita.

So why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji believe their oaths on false texts in the first place?

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1 hour ago, TejS said:

Firstly, I mean no disrespect and am not trying to cause any trouble with this question. It is a genuine concern of mine that I have been having trouble finding an answer to.

So I've been thinking about the promise Aurangzeb and his generals gave to Guru Gobind Singh Ji by swearing and taking an oath on the Quran. It is mentioned in the Zafarnama too.

Considering the Quran is not the word of God, and therefore is a tampered or a fabricated text, why would Guruji even accept an oath on a false text? Given that he knows the text is false, he should have no reason to believe them? Right?

So why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji believe their oath on a false text in the first place?

How could you possibly arrive at the conclusion that you have. The zafarnama clearly shows respect for quran sharif and you seem to miss the point entirely 

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3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

it wasn't just the quran the marathas/hill rajas swore on the gita , this was a pure exercise to show his beloved children just why you should NEVER trust ANYONE who swears/promises you something on their 'holy' scriptures Hukhams 26 of 52 hukhams

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

But why was he willfully accepting their oaths, knowing well it was a lie based on the fact that text themselves were false? That's still a question I have because accepting some of those false oaths cost him and the Sikhs dearly. I'm sure the Sikhs were more than willing to accept that any of those texts are false, and so ultimately their oath means nothing.

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37 minutes ago, TejS said:

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

But why was he willfully accepting their oaths, knowing well it was a lie based on the fact that text themselves were false? That's still a question I have because accepting some of those false oaths cost him and the Sikhs dearly. I'm sure the Sikhs were more than willing to accept that any of those texts are false, and so ultimately their oath means nothing.

It also may have been Guruji excersizing one their many lessons to us: use diplomacy until all routes fail, then take up arms in defence. Guru Sahib decided to give Aurangzeb another chance to swear on what he saw as his highest text, the Qur'an. Also remember that the universe has an everflowing pen, Aurangzeb could have easily honored his word as easily as he broke it, Guru Sahib knew this, but this is my thoughts on your question. Forgive me if I made any mistakes, WJKK WJKF.

 

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You really should have a listen to suraj prakash katha regarding this. Sikhs were tired from the seige. They desperately wanted Guruji to accept the mughal/hills' offers. Guruji started the counter offer to the singhs at 20 more days, then 19....then 18....and so on until the sikhs refused all of Gurujis proposed duration of continued stay. Then Guru ji told mataji Gujar kaur ji and the singhs that great hardship and suffering is to follow after the evacuation. Guruji stated to the singhs to hold ground just a bit longer and all the tyrsnts would crumble...but alas....as willed by Akal purakh .... his wonderous play had to unfold.

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7 hours ago, TejS said:

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

But why was he willfully accepting their oaths, knowing well it was a lie based on the fact that text themselves were false? That's still a question I have because accepting some of those false oaths cost him and the Sikhs dearly. I'm sure the Sikhs were more than willing to accept that any of those texts are false, and so ultimately their oath means nothing.

but did he send all his sikhs out with his family or did he send out a decoy ? you forget that he sent a small jatha of volunteers with a decoy caravan  first . When he came out of the fort at Anandpur he did it under hukham of Panj piare and sangat , Ape Guru Chela (just as Guru Arjan Dev ji did rejection of ristha of Chandu, Guru Teg Bahadur ji did of Bibian of Amritsar)  . No ONE is Bigger than Guru Panth ...except Waheguru ji's Hukham and Guru ji is jaani jaan he knew exactly what was going to happen but he needed to remove that shadow of mental softness/naivete in his Children that these kinds of people will be honourable , even those who claim SIkhi as their faith

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Alright. Thank you everyone. From what I have gathered is that the accompanying Sikhs forced Guruji to accept the false oaths, and it was not out of trust. 

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On 6/27/2018 at 4:55 AM, TejS said:

Considering the Quran is not the word of God, and therefore is a tampered or a fabricated text, why would Guruji even accept an oath on a false text? Given that he knows the text is false, he should have no reason to believe them? Right?

 

When did Guru Gobind Singh ji say that Quran Sharif is false ? 

or even the other gurus for that matter. Not even any bhagats . Honestly the kind of anti-islamic sentiment on this website to me I feel is a response to the betrayal  of pakistan to sikhs in 1984 . 

First thing , Guru Gobind Singh ji never said quran sharif is false. Secondly , yes there're some violent verses in quran , but it also has spiritual content . And Gurbani says "Don't call the vedas or quran false. False are they who don't reflect on them" 

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4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

When did Guru Gobind Singh ji say that Quran Sharif is false ? 

or even the other gurus for that matter. Not even any bhagats . Honestly the kind of anti-islamic sentiment on this website to me I feel is a response to the betrayal  of pakistan to sikhs in 1984 . 

First thing , Guru Gobind Singh ji never said quran sharif is false. Secondly , yes there're some violent verses in quran , but it also has spiritual content . And Gurbani says "Don't call the vedas or quran false. False are they who don't reflect on them" 

If it was all correct and above board then Guru Nanak Dev ji would not have to specify the true conduct of a muslim ...or a pandit etc
when a sikh does vichar on something he/she is expected to engage bibek buddhi i.e. gurmat shiksha  as the kasvati for truth. If they were all correct there would be no need for a tisar panth...  Guru Pita ji has also pointed out the faults of the pegambars of the faiths e.g. Mohammed was made ruler of Arabia , he used his power to subjugate all men and women by sunnat (circumcision of both sexes) and yet didn't give naam with any strong determination just got people to repeat his own name . Ibadat is the reason he was given the mission and yet the true purpose has become secondary to krodh, lob, moh, ahankar and kaam  ridden motives in the minds of his followers .

Guru ji never talks about the granths of other faiths because they are really not important, as it is the resulting actions of the 'faithful' that matter in Waheguru ji's darbar nothing more or less.

we are all false anyway- we are temporary   you have to quote the original gurmukhi words used to know the meaning in which Guru ji is speaking of falsity , in a logical/literal manner or the spiritual manner.

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Why would guru ji write this in Zaffarnama itself if he thinks Quran Sharif is false ?

 

ਸ਼ਰੀਅਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਤੋ ਫ਼ਜ਼ੀਲਤ ਮ-ਆਬ ॥ ਹਕੀਕਤ ਸ਼ਨਾਸੋ ਨਬੀਉਲ ਕਿਤਾਬ ॥੯॥
SHARI-AT PRAST-O FAZILAT M-AAB, HAKIKAT SHANAS-O NABI AL-KITAB (9)

The Virtuous One is the protector of the faithful. Nothing is hidden from Him. He is the inspiration of Koran.

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1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Why would guru ji write this in Zaffarnama itself if he thinks Quran Sharif is false ?

 

ਸ਼ਰੀਅਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਤੋ ਫ਼ਜ਼ੀਲਤ ਮ-ਆਬ ॥ ਹਕੀਕਤ ਸ਼ਨਾਸੋ ਨਬੀਉਲ ਕਿਤਾਬ ॥੯॥
SHARI-AT PRAST-O FAZILAT M-AAB, HAKIKAT SHANAS-O NABI AL-KITAB (9)

The Virtuous One is the protector of the faithful. Nothing is hidden from Him. He is the inspiration of Koran.

who do you think that Guru ji is talking about ? MOhammed or Akal Purakh

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6 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

who do you think that Guru ji is talking about ? MOhammed or Akal Purakh

Obv about akal purkh/allah 

No one says quran is authored by muhammad. It was a revelation from akal purkh to mohamad via angel gabriel . 

Same way bhagvad gita is inspired onto krishna when he's in yog with akal purkh. Its even mentioned in one part of mahabhart that when someone asks krishan to recite bhagvad again , he is unable to and says "I was in yog with parbrahm then so i was, now i cant"

every scripture is authored by akal purkh , so why call quran false ?

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Tejs, does it not state in Guru Granth Sahib ji, "Do not take Quran, Bible and Gita to be false. The preachers can b false not the Holy texts themselves." (NOTE! This is not going against original writers, but preachers that are preaching today). Also, it's stated in SGGS that slandering the texts is paap.

Why did Maharaaj go ahead with it? Maybe because they knew, not going ahead with it is against Akaal Purkh's hukam. Whatever the Guru Ji's saw in future they went with it rather than against it.

If Quran was "false" then part of Hukam would have NOT been to study other religious texts, Quran is one thing Sikhs need to study. I hope you did not think "Only to study n lash back at Muslims in a debate..?"

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1 hour ago, Singh1989 said:

Tejs, does it not state in Guru Granth Sahib ji, "Do not take Quran, Bible and Gita to be false. The preachers can b false not the Holy texts themselves." (NOTE! This is not going against original writers, but preachers that are preaching today). Also, it's stated in SGGS that slandering the texts is paap.

Why did Maharaaj go ahead with it? Maybe because they knew, not going ahead with it is against Akaal Purkh's hukam. Whatever the Guru Ji's saw in future they went with it rather than against it.

If Quran was "false" then part of Hukam would have NOT been to study other religious texts, Quran is one thing Sikhs need to study. I hope you did not think "Only to study n lash back at Muslims in a debate..?"

studying other texts was instructed , but importantly if and only if you keep faith in your own path and Guru Granth Sahib ji people seem to forget this proviso ... it should be done to increase one's understanding and knowledge of others, nothing more. If one does vichar of gurbani you will hear the echoes in the other granths and appreciate your own more as it encompasses the others salient points .

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