Young Sikhs Birmingham Meeting

[Singh_Shiromani]

Khalsa ji, there is so many "Panth Virodi " organisations out there to finish sikhi off, we need to wake up!! i mean let me give you one example: Punjabi is teached in Punjab, when in the Panjab Language do we find "Didi"?? we call our sisters Bhain Ji not didi, didi is a hindi word,

School children in dehli are told in schools that Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Ji caused alot of terrorism in punjab, that is why his head was cut off, and not he wasnt shaheed for speaking out against oppresion against Hindus??? i mean explain that one???

another example, apprently Sri Guru Harkrishan Ji had a son that was secretary of Auranzeb?? how is that possible when Sri Guru Harkrishan Ji Was 7 years old??

come khalsa ji, dnt fall asleep look at the Kurbanian Of Our Shaheeds look at The Kurbanian of our Guru, we need khalistan, we NEED, its our Destiny, its our Right, dnt throw away talk of Khalistan, what did them Shaheeds achieve by sacraficing themselves for us and Khalistan? come on dnt lose faith and ruin the dream of all them Sikh Shaheeds of 1984 and after!

If an organisation has been formed its only for the panth man?? at the end of the day we are just telling you to remain awake!!

if we wanted to we could have raised issues and stuck to issues that would drive u away from Khalistan, and Away from "Sikh IK Vakhri Quam Hai"

ALL YOUNG SIKHS WILL DO WILL BE FOR THE CHARDI KALA OF THE KHALSA PANTH AND SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI'S ADAB AND SATKAAR.

[stopsingh]

Q. Was I and the millions of other Sikhs there when the Thanda Burj at Sirhind was clad in cheap white marble by Kar Seva wale and who criticise this bodge up seva ?

A. NO.

:wub: @ @ @ ä

Stop Singh!

You've made a wonderful post and show how big losers we are who don't ever care about our heritage being ruined by bulldozer baba.......

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fa

teh!!

Thing is we now have to be careful as the "bulldozer" baba want to do seva on Gurdwara in Pakistan.

Just a few months ago we had the Sarna and co of the DGPC wanting to demolish Gurdwara Janamasthan Guru Ram Dass. They said the old structure was not sound. Funny that as when I went last April the structure looked more than sound to me and only required some restoration. No doubt some kar seva wala has now started job of cladding it in cheap white marble. I hope someone would clad some of these kar seva wale in cheap white marble.

[stopsingh]

Jeevan veer ji,

I cannot argue with your point, at the same time, I would like to stress that by no means is Khalistan the top item on the agenda of Young Sikhs - it is one of the issues - of course it is - and one of the issues that has great importance and requires a lot of thought, as proven by your post - this is one of the reasons it is on the agenda.

There has already been so much talk about Khalistan, not just over the past twenty years, but far longer... it's about time Young Sikhs had this on the agenda, to discuss the real possibilities, and the practicalities.... if not anything by way of land, at least Young Sikhs will realise the needs for Khalistan, and the requirements, before just shouting for it.

We have to learn for ourselves the points that you have made, and then work on these points, but if we don't keep these thoughts alive through these organisations, it will remain too distant a dream...

Just my thoughts.

Bhul chuk Maaf.

Agree with most your points but I would go even further and say Khalistan is a non issue. From extensive visits to Punjab I have not met one person who wants it.

If people in the west want it tell them to set it up in Smethwick or wherever the mass of Khalistan backers live.

There are more real pressing issues like the decline in the number of Sikhs in Punjab, the mis

suse of Sikh religious symbols i Punjabi pop videos (all very well demonstrating outside theatres but how about demonstrating against Jazzy B and Mika etc who wear large Khanda whilst dancing around half naked girls etc.), the destruction of our heritage by kar seva wale.

As for the points raised by Singh Shriomani about the lies about Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji in Indian text books what have the Sikhs in India done about it ? Very little. They could easily have filed a few lawsuits to put a stop to this.

[Gurbar Akaal]

Whatever the case is with GNNSJ and the kar seva by baba mohinder singh, whether he knew about the dodgy gold, plastered marble etc etc is another matter, it seems that people have found a target to take the punishment and will continue to take his name through the mud. I aint saying that he did know about the dodgy kar seva or if he didnt, but people need to think.

The SGPC have been doing dodgy kar seva for ages, gurdwara baba atal is a prime example, the kar seva of the akaal takht is nothing like the original, in fact the roof is leaking and resulted in the damage of an handwritten saroop of guru maharaj. frescos and minakari on the walls have been systematically whitewashed with GLOSS PAINT, so even the best experts in the world cannot recover them, is baba mohinder singh responsible for this? course not, everyone says "open your eyes sikho", but it seems that peoples eyes are only half open <_<

[rKr]

Again, the issue's stop singh talks about need to be addressed - but ji, please don't mind me saying this and I do not want to get into a mass debate - but your talks of Panjab? Ji, that is what 250,000 missing, murdered, raped innocent Sikhs gets you - Silence from Panjab. - Yet Khalistan is a non issue?

If you attended the Sikh Lobby day last year, you would have heard the independant, Rob Marris talk of members of the public in Panjab badger this gentlemen when he was on an unofficial holiday. They were begging him to help them - asking him to use his powers to help them... they asked him whether he knew of the attacks of 1984, and proceeded to tell him, that injustices continue still today.

On the outside, yes it looks like Panjab is fine - but is it really? The land of five rivers, the home of Sri Darbar Sahib, does it look okae? How many Singh's do you see openly practising their every belief?? How many real Singh's are there in India?? In Panjab??? Do they even speak in Panjabi??

As for Singh's in India filing law suits... what against the GOI?? Please don't tell me you actually believe this could happen? Sikh's who challenge the Indian Govt don't last too long... Which is why we, out in the west - in Smethwick, or wherever the mass of Khalistan backers live must use all the powers we have, to use the democratic society in which we live, the freedom of speech and expression which we have, and these damn good degrees we walk away with - cos if even just one person from that burning Panjab is eased by it, then you've at least tried to keep the dream of Khalsa Raaj (albeit 'Khalistan') alive somewhere.

[Singh_Shiromani]

see?? agree with it we need to wake up its about time man! 20 years!! we will wchieve what is our RIGHT!! its is our FREEDOM! its our THAKDEER!

[stopsingh]

Whatever the case is with GNNSJ and the kar seva by baba mohinder singh, whether he knew about the dodgy gold, plastered marble etc etc is another matter, it seems that people have found a target to take the punishment and will continue to take his name through the mud. I aint saying that he did know about the dodgy kar seva or if he didnt, but people need to think.

The SGPC have been doing dodgy kar seva for ages, gurdwara baba atal is a prime example, the kar seva of the akaal takht is nothing like the original, in fact the roof is leaking and resulted in the damage of an handwritten saroop of guru maharaj. frescos and minakari on the walls have been systematically whitewashed with GLOSS PAINT, so even the best experts in the world cannot recover them, is baba mohinder singh responsible for this? course not, everyone says "open your eyes sikho", but it seems that peoples eyes are only half open :wub:

Bhai sahib was not an illetarate village bumpkin with very little education. He has lived in the west for a long time so unlike the SGPC he should have been more sensitive to the ideas of restoration/preservation than the sgpc wale.

Just becasue the Akal Takht has also had a bodge up job don

e it does not make the Darbar Sahib gold plating seva right. the SGPC has not had experts working on the Akal Takht rather than experts who are willing to do the work and reconstruct old frescos etc the SGPC has been inclined to take a Soho Rd type approach and not consult experts and get Kwik Fit painters in to do a bodge up job.

Where is the taking of his name through the mud. OK if he did not know he has been told about the dodgy seva on more than one occassion, is he big enough to stand up admit it was wrong and do it again ? NO. OK if he does not want to do that let him hire his own experts and get a professional opinion on the gold plating job.

Appears to me that peopel will try and protect the job he did to the hilt without any consideratio of the damage done to the Darbar Sahib.

[stopsingh]

As for Singh's in India filing law suits... what against the GOI?? Please don't tell me you actually believe this could happen? Sikh's who challenge the Indian Govt don't last too long... Which is why we, out in the west - in Smethwick, or wherever the mass of Khalistan backers live must use all the powers we have, to use the democratic society in which we live, the freedom of speech and expression which we have, and these damn good degrees we walk away with - cos if even just one person from that burning Panjab is eased by it, then you've at least tried to keep the dream of Khalsa Raaj (albeit 'Khalistan') alive somewhere.

Yes Sikhs are allowed to file lawsuits and have done so even against the GOI.

As for the Rob Marris story. Ever asked the people why they were approaching him. They proabably wanted India taken off the list of safe countries so they could claim asylum in the UK. Just visit a legal clinic at a Gurdwara near you to find out what people are prepared to do to claim asylum. Flowing beards at the time of claiming asylum soon become trim beards when the asylum claims are refused and the claimant then tries other methods to stay in the UK.

[Gurbar Akaal]

where have i protected baba mohinder singh? infact i hope to question him on this matter of kar seva soon, the main point is that both GNNSJ and the SGPC have done many bodge jobs in the past and are continueing to do so, cheap toilet tiling, gloss paint everywhere, and total disgregard for structual integrity of buildings. both parties are in the wrong and people who do know about preservation of heritage such as gurmeet rai are being shut up and pushed a side by pendus at the top

[stopsingh]

where have i protected baba mohinder singh? infact i hope to question him on this matter of kar seva soon, the main point is that both GNNSJ and the SGPC have done many bodge jobs in the past and are continueing to do so, cheap toilet tiling, gloss paint everywhere, and total disgregard for structual integrity of buildings. both parties are in the wrong and people who do know about preservation of heritage such as gurmeet rai are being shut up and pushed a side by pendus at the top

Whatever the case is with GNNSJ and the kar seva by baba mohinder singh, whether he knew about the dodgy gold, plastered marble etc etc is another matter, it seems that people have found a target to take the punishment and will continue to take his name through the mud. I aint saying that he did know about the dodgy kar seva or if he didnt, but people need to think.

If that is not going on the defensive then I do not know what is. Using examples of other bodge ups to defend the Soho Road wale is being defensive in my book. No one is taking his name through mud. His own attitude in denying the bodge up is doing more than enough damage to his reputation without others trying to tarnish it.