A woman's point of view....

[Guest Sony]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Sangat Ji, I've just finished reading all of the posts under the topic "amrit is essential for salvation" , and so far, I'm not sure if I've read a woman's point on wether woman can be part of the punj pyare or not. I know I dont represent all the woman, but I feel that as a woman, I need to have my voice heard aswell. since the admin wont let us post nething else on that topic under that section, i felt it necessary to start a new thread, and for that i would like to ask forgiveness, however this topic is really important to discuss i feel.

Firstly, I remember a post in which someone says that before all this equality stuff started, woman worked at home, did the house work etc. I agree at that time thats how it was, however today woman go to work aswell, not only because we want to show that we are "equal" but because we have to. In order to live a comfortable life in Canada right now, both husband and wife need to work. However, especially in our culture, it seems that the woman not only works 8 hours or more at work along side the man but has to come home and do the house work aswell. so if you are using this equality thing as something to put woman down, that we were meant to work at home and we shouldnt try to change it, with the changing of times i think it was necessary for woman to start working and to change their "given" roll.

Secondly, its true that none of our guru's were woman, they were all men, however, what you might fail to see is that even though our Guru's preached that woman are equal, many at that time had a hard time following that. If there were a woman gur

u, do you believe she would have been listened to in the same way? It was important that a man stand up and say as a fellow man i think that we need to see them as equals, if a woman stood up and said you need to treat me equal, then people (like the people today) would say they are being typical and its all "equality" or whatever u wanna call it. I think for the guru's to stand up and say that was a big deal at the time and it was important for them to be all male so that the people would listen and understand. Same goes for the first Amrit Sanchar, the times were different whenwoman could stand up and say nething. Even though the guru ji said that woman should be treated equal, they werent always treated equal. Guru ji said this how many years ago? that woman should be treated equally? and even today their teachings on this are not always followed, what did u expect then? I also higly doubt that there were many woman who went there that day ,as usually the males went, and the woman stayed home and did what they are "CREATED TO DO" that is take care of the house. Do you think that if this oppurtunity came today, that if Guru Ji had come now and asked for 5 heads a Singhni would not get up and take that oppurtunity? I know a lot of woman who would jump at the chance now.

When it comes to menstral cycles of woman, what is the behzti? it is behzti if someone laughs at you, or someone looks at u in a bad way, if a man understands that this is something natural, that woman go through this, if she gets a mark on her clothes then could someone not just tell her? i've seen men with their armpits sweating so much they have large circles under their arms is that wrong? woman can carry extra clothes and change if they need to. Usually woman know when they have gotten their "period" and are able to do something about it quick. If you are going to do a certain job you make sure that u have everything covered, that u hve everything you need, could a woman not just take extra clothes with her? also, when it comes t

o woman having to leave, hey dont have to leave right away, going back to clothes being dirty, men can get them dirty, do they change right away? what if one of the punj pyare have to sneeze? they are holding on the the khanda with both hands, will they take their hand off or turn their face? if they turn their face what if they get some of the spit on their clothes, will they have to change?

Jessi Veerji said it perfectly, if caste is not looked upon when choosing the punj pyare then why should gender? unless ofcourse, woman are not equal......

changing waheguru ji ka khalsa to waheguru ji ki khalsa? honestly, dont you think thats a little out there, you think the woman in our panth will ask u to change that?

I'm not saying that woman has to be in the punj pyare, however, please consider everything when you start to think of this topic. think of the time that Guru ji was there and the situations, and think of today and the situations today. its not manmat, its being able to understand that if Guru ji was here today there is a strong chance, stronger then 1699 that a woman would stand up and offer her head when Guru ji asked for it.

one last thing, when they say punj pyare, it doesnt necessarily mean male, its a plural form of just males or of males and females, many words in our language when u have both genders involved and want to change it to plural form take on the masculin base...... I dont think that proves that you are only allowed to have men......

if i have said nething that was wrong, i sincerely ask for your apologies, however i felt that it was necessary to bring these points up. Im not sure if this topic was started before, however, i wasnt around then so ... .... here it is.....

pul chuk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Jaspaul Singh]

WOW ....

.... where do i start ....

however i felt that it was necessary to bring these points up

..... u were right ......

[Mkhalsa]

WOW!! very well put bhenji!!!

Much more concise and heartfelt than my hastily put together article.

[rKr]

Phenji -

As a female, I feel you spoke for the majority of us and got it spot on!

Wow.

Thank you. :TH:

["princess"]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

ok i'm afraid i disagree im all up for equality and that however i was thinkin about this after reading the one that got locked and i thiink that if a woman was supposed to have been in the panj pyaree she wud have been, if u think about panaa as in igf its supposed to happen it will (i dunno if i spelt it right) but maybe thats jus the way its supposed to be.

i dont mean to offend anyone and am jus expressin my opinion

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Akaal Purakh Di Fauj]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Sony Bhenji - Wkd post :TH:

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[bhainjee]

vaahiguroojeekaakhalsaa vaahiguroojeekeefathe!

Many good points Sony bhanji, thank you for bringing them up.

I just have a simple question to pose to the general sangat, which has been on my mind for some time. One that will bring forth the true inner feelings of those who say women are not "well" when they are in a state of mahavani.

- If a woman is menstruating, is she not tyaar bar tyaar? If only one who is "tyaar bar tyaar" can meet Vahiguroo, then is a woman not able to attain Vahiguroo?

If your answer is yes, they cannot attain Vahiguroo because they aren't tyaar bar tyaar, then it is clear that you do not consider daughter's of Guru Gobind Singh Jee to be laa-ik of meeting their father. You must also believe that these women are being punished in their joon because they cannot attain Vahiguroo in this janam.

Also, one can even go as far as saying that a bibi cannot touch anything with Gurbani written on it (Gutka Sahib, pothi etc.) or prepare langar for Khalsa because she is menstruating OR as has been mentioned many times before - cannot do Panj Seva. I'm beginning to think that the common reason given (only 5 males got up originally) for women not being allowed to do Panj Seva is just an excuse for the true underlying reason.

The question of equality is far from the issue. I think it comes down to considering woman of any value at all. Do you consider women to be an equal joon to men, or a lower joon? Do you think they can reach the same spiritual levels as singhs?

[Princess]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

:umm: :TH: good job Sony

[V]

That's it!!!

A muslim told me that during thier period they arn't allowed to TOUCH THE QU'RAN or any holy muslim writing and to be honest tha disgusted me, and made me so happy that Guru Sahib gave us EQUALITY!!!

It's SICK to say that a Singhnee cannot do paath/touch Gurbani during her periods - this goes online very well with BIPRAN KI REET!!!

Japman Singh ji mad a really nice post about how conceptionally Periods is like swearing - it's a way of body fluid to get out - so does that Mean if a Singh begins to sweat he should leave the Gutka right there right then run and have a shower and then come back?

or at an AMrit SAnchar, if one of the Panj begins to Sweat he'll tell the one's ready to give their head -

WAIT!!! Let me take a SHOWER!!!

Let's be practicle! I'm SERIOUSLY DISGUSTED with people saying SInghnees can't be part of the Panj. Mkhalsa ji wrote a nice article regarding this - check his website out

What REALLY makes my blood boil is when SInghnee's thmeselv say - we have no right for this that and that :cool: @

Mad respect to Sony bhenji

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Jaspaul Singh]

- If a woman is menstruating, is she not tyaar bar tyaar? If only one who is "tyaar bar tyaar" can meet Vahiguroo, then is a woman not able to attain Vahiguroo?

Bhainji, Dhan Bhaaag ... what a wicked way to put it ... and WICKED response as well....

... and Mr.Singh... u said ...

Japman Singh ji mad a really nice post about how conceptionally Periods is like swearing

.....i think you mean sweating ! :umm: