Kanishka Aeroplane Bombing

[buddasingh]

A competent analysis cutting through the propaganda tells us that the usual suspects are not the ones who need to be questioned now. Numerous select reporters, officers, lawyers, and politicians tied most closely to the investigation need to be grilled with questions. They are nowhere to be seen.

However, many of us arrive at simplistic conclusions based on the years of construction of junk reporting, politicking, and propoganda that flies in the face of all logic and evidence.

Based on this junk, we come to the conclusion that people with certain political views are TERRORISTS as if terrorists are a race of their own. The analogy of race is quite appropriate.

When the majority of particular societies held/hold deeply held views of blacks, jews, dalits etc., the people holding those views were not of lower IQ. They were “kind hearted”, “normal” people! Those people would point to the "accepted" junk that shaped them to justify their beliefs. This is what we do today with the label of “terrorists”. Given the clear evidence of who the victims and oppressors are, it is ludicrous how attention is focused.

We proudly state that it is anti-sikh to be racist. However, the day that the entire world is inter-racial, does not mean that the sikhi message is extinct. Part of the human condition is judgment of groups of people. That aspect of the sikhi message is about judgment.

We decide to condemn particular people and label them as terrorists based on MASS PROPAGANDA. We justify this because of the MAJORITY view acceptable TODAY. We are too “kind hearted” and “normal” to open our eyes to today’s LESS POPULAR truth. How are we different than those who judge or judged jews, blacks, or dalits in their times?

Different times, different propaganda, different scapegoats, SAME lack of logic, SAME judgment. We are no different!

Our Guru Ji’s and martyrs would have held the majority of the very people we call TERRORISTS as their beloveds and spoke up against those of us judging and labeling as misled blind followers of today.

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

They were acquitted by the judge that’s different to being found not guilty by a jury. However in the civil public inquiry where other substantial evidence was produced the verdict found against the accused and linking the bombing to them however that cannot by law change the verdict of the criminal case, not yet anyway. The is legitimate argument now to get the law changed. its not over until its over. Talwinder and his groupies are nothing but scum and history will remember them for only that. Laughably there are today even those that praise Hitler, a few deluded individuals no different from the fanfare propagated by certain fanatical few doing the "positive Seva" what a joke. However they are just a minority now, people have woken up the deception and lies propagated over the last twenty odd years by all the governments and the false freedom fighters. The true heroes who truly did suffer were the innocent caught up in the hate campaigns plugged by certain groups, to them I say “you’re old news, we know the truth and get lost”

[sikh supreme]

Dancing warrior, until there is firm conclusive proof, you cant 100% positively accuse any individiual of guilt or anything like that, especially since he was supposedly killed by the Indian state in 1992 so theres no way to get his testimony, and get his side of the story. What can be done however is to grill the people in the shadows, the people who chose to remain quiet in all this. Like the Indian embassy officals and RAW agents who were known to be operating In Canada infiltrating NGO's and seperatist groups, practising subversion in the interests of the Indian state.

BTW what is KINGDOM OF YAMA?

[proactive]

They were acquitted by the judge that’s different to being found not guilty by a jury. However in the civil public inquiry where other substantial evidence was produced the verdict found against the accused and linking the bombing to them however that cannot by law change the verdict of the criminal case, not yet anyway. The is legitimate argument now to get the law changed. its not over until its over. Talwinder and his groupies are nothing but scum and history will remember them for only that. Laughably there are today even those that praise Hitler, a few deluded individuals no different from the fanfare propagated by certain fanatical few doing the "positive Seva" what a joke. However they are just a minority now, people have woken up the deception and lies propagated over the last twenty odd years by all the governments and the false freedom fighters. The true heroes who truly did suffer were the innocent caught up in the hate campaigns plugged by certain groups, to them I say “you’re old news, we know the truth and get lost”

What's the difference between being acquitted by a judge and not being found guilty by a jury? Let me guess, if they had been found not guilty by a jury you would have been complaining that the case was too complex for a jury to hear and only the learned judge should have been able to get the real verdict :TH: One of the better decisions of the canadian judicial system was to have the case heard before a judge and not a jury. I can just imagine if the jury had people like you, there would have been no need to waste millions on hearing the evidence, you knew they were guilty so why waste time, just hang them!

You obviously have an axe to grind against these two guys so tell us what it is that's bugging you. No doubt you would have been jumping for joy had these two been found guilty.

[Guest Hardeep_S_Khalsa]

Namastang and Dancing warrior is this the respect you have for your sikh brothers who have been in jail. They were found not guilt by the courts and all the evidence they apparently had was destroyed.

The rcmp and csis wanted Singh Bagri and Singh Malik to remain in jail as long as possible. In fact they even offered a gursikh who is still in jail millions of $$$$$$$$$, a residential home in England and a business in return for offering witness statements against Singh Malik and Singh Bagri. But he said NO!!!

[N30S1NGH]

Namastang and Dancing warrior is this the respect you have for your sikh brothers who have been in jail. They were found not guilt by the courts and all the evidence they apparently had was destroyed.

The rcmp and csis wanted Singh Bagri and Singh Malik to remain in jail as long as possible. In fact they even offered a gursikh who is still in jail millions of $$$$$$$$$, a residential home in England and a business in return for offering witness statements against Singh Malik and Singh Bagri. But he said NO!!!

They were found *NOT* guilty no doubt, i m *NOT* accusing them for the bombing, I am just accusing them -Malik, Parmar being GOI Agents and bagri being fanatic (see his hateful speech you cannot justify it, khalsa is never tamoguni never use personal animoisty against group of people..santhood devolves over tamogun only thing stays shant justified force/speech against injustice not against group of people), according to high mighty great book- soft target, same book that our soo called sikh leaders jump on bandwagon start quoting from this book obviously quotes which doesnt challenges their beleif- right, left and center.

According to the book:

- How do you explain state bank of india giving malik 2 million dollar at the same time accuse him and his freinds being khalistani fanatics?

- How do you explain talvinder singh parmar demanding for 500 dollars out of nowhere by inviting all the innocent people for their "chardi-kalah simran session" at 5 am?????

- How do you explain real shaheed bhai fauja singh ji;s wife accusing parmar for hijacking the movement?

- how do you explain parmar wealth in short little time to buy houses in cash in one of richest area in BC? where is that money come from?

- how do you explain parmar one hand- fully denying his involvement killing police officers to the authorities and in the gurdwara bragging how he killed police officers in the india? i m sure your chardi-kalah, farladhari maha shaheed gurmukh find lying obviously ok ?

i suggest you look into these points with open mind instead of same putting your jatha and jatha leaders first infront of sikhi/khalsa ethical/ moral views and dharam yudh maryada.

To equate/ give him label of shaheedi is maha beadhi its in fact it bring the downs defination of shaheedi which sri guru arjan dev ji showed us pratically..these days shaheedi word itself gets over used and abused just like any other labels like- sant, bhramgyan's, scholars.

[Guest Hardeep_S_Khalsa]

First of all Namstang bro I can't answer these questions, if you want to know why don't you go directlyto Singh Malik and ask him yourself. The point I am making is the singhs who were released were inocent and the gursikh who is still in jail and may get released next year is also innocent.

On all the statements you made, I agree with one thing yo said "About Singh Bagri making speech on killing 50000 hindus" This was wrong and gursikhs should never kill innocent people, BUT WERE 50000 hindus killed, NO. Also what you goto understand is this speech was done in 1985, after operation blue star and delhi riots where thousands of sikhs were killed. Sikhs generally worldwide were upset with what was happening, akal takht getting attacked and delhi riots.

Also I don't really care about Parmers wealth, thats his life.

Why don't you ask these questions directly to Singh Malik, who will give you answers directly.

[proactive]

Hardeep Singh Khalsa

Good posting. Some people just go ape because one of them made a speech saying to kill 50,000 Hindus but the same people don't realise that when the speech was made as you said thousands of Sikhs had been killed and Harmandir Sahib had been attacked and Akal Takht practically destroyed. They didn't just come out of nowhere on a sunny day and just say 'let's kill 50,000 Hindus!' There was a context to their statements. Some people sitting at their desk in 2007 how do they know what Sikhs went through in 1984.

Only Waheguru knows who is a true Shaheed and who is a Gadar or a murderer. For these people a person going against the Panth and taking money from Indira Gandhi for building the Akal Takht is a Mahanpurukh and someone who under the stress of circumstances makes a statement to kill 50,000 Hindus is the biggest criminal who needs to be killed on sight. It's funny that someone who keeps calling for tolerance and thinks Sikhi can be anything you want it to be ( Udasi, Nihang etc) is so intolerant that some Sikhs want to think of Parmar as a Shaheed. Where's the tolerance for those who have a view different for his own?

[N30S1NGH]

Hardeep Singh Khalsa

Good posting. Some people just go ape because one of them made a speech saying to kill 50,000 Hindus but the same people don't realise that when the speech was made as you said thousands of Sikhs had been killed and Harmandir Sahib had been attacked and Akal Takht practically destroyed. They didn't just come out of nowhere on a sunny day and just say 'let's kill 50,000 Hindus!' There was a context to their statements. Some people sitting at their desk in 2007 how do they know what Sikhs went through in 1984.

Only Waheguru knows who is a true Shaheed and who is a Gadar or a murderer. For these people a person going against the Panth and taking money from Indira Gandhi for building the Akal Takht is a Mahanpurukh and someone who under the stress of circumstances makes a statement to kill 50,000 Hindus is the biggest criminal who needs to be killed on sight. It's funny that someone who keeps calling for tolerance and thinks Sikhi can be anything you want it to be ( Udasi, Nihang etc) is so intolerant that some Sikhs want to think of Parmar as a Shaheed. Where's the tolerance for those who have a view different for his own?

Lets cut the <admin-profanity filter activated> bikkie, if you got issues with me, just pm me, stop taking this topic into an issue of "intolerance of diversity". What you want now, give shaheedi label to any tom d i ck harry despite of their shady jeevan and equate them with sri guru arjan dev ji, baba deep singh, baba banda singh bahudar shaheediyan?

I challenge you to refute my genuine points raised in this topic below and above from soft target book:

~Reevaluting the real meaning of shaheedi~

First of all , let me be clear this topic is "nowhere an personal attack to personal individuals/jatha who have fought during the times of 1980's". However this topic touches a very fine mindset of an true militant who have got complete understanding of "dharam yudh maryada" within sikhism and examples of shaheedi set by our beloved Guru Sahibs- Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji.

I think every sikh with bibek buddhi can somewhat agree that not all sikh militants back in the time of 1980-1995 were 100 percent genuine and they were some who were driven by vengeance not "revenge". This two different terms, vengeance is state of mind where a person who is soo driven by it, that will use any "unjustified force" to eliminate the target, even though that unjustified force will kill innocent civilians. Whereas true sikh of sri guru gobind singh ji, will use only "justified force" to eliminate the target that means abort the missions if its turning out that there are innocent civilians on the way of target. In real world, this is painful, talk to any militants around the world, amount of pressure they get and planning they have spent to eliminate the target is over-whelming, hence in their dictionary if target (ruthless opressors/killer) is eliminated even in the cost of one-two innocent civilians is acceptable, but remember we are not just any joe blow sormaie/soldiers , we are given an beautiful concept of saint and sipahi, we are given ideals of khalsa, shaheedi, maryada in the dharam yudh. In the dharam yudh, singh under no circumstances doesnt not target - innocent civilians. Regardless how much pressure, how much planning is done to kill targets, singh should instantly boycatt/cancel the mission to target (ruthless killers/oppressors) after knowning it will cost an live of an innocent.

Classical example of such sikhs who have gravely failed to be sikhs of sri guru nanak dev ji let alone- sant-sipahi, or shaheeds is an clip below, fwd to 3 minute- http://media.cbc.ca:8080/ramgen/cbc.ca/new...wski_030909b.rm

Quote " There will be sikhs around, thats a price of our revolution".

Now its sikhs in the interview shown in the clip, i dont care where they from, which group they belong, they have every terrorist intent around that time in their mind to target anyone , have no regards for life of an innocent individuals, as sikhs in that clip said- after all this is the price of our revolution.

not targetting the jatha/personality but targetting the mindset of such fanatics, question to sangat , do they qualify to call themselves sant sipahi of sri guru gobind singh ji? if they were killed, do they qualify to be in realm of shaheedi which is very very pure concept laid down by examples of our guru's, sahibzadas, great warriors- baba deep singh ji, 40 mukhte, great mothers within khalsa panth. Do they qualify to have their names read next to great warriors like- baba deep singh??

Sikh need to be first sant (dya, dharam, sat, santokh, gyan) and then sipahi, its not other way around, only sipahihood in an person makes them demonic/tamoguni nothing else. You need santhood first and sipahi to anaylise each and every suitation in dharam yudh to questions- how much justified force need to be used? do assessment of dharam yudh, how is it impacting other innocent civilians life? how can one eliminate an target(ruthless killers/oppressors) soo pricesly that no innocent life is lost. And no these attributes of santhood first then sipahihood and questions and assesmment of dharam yudh is not only limited to only jathedar but each one of us who have desire to be shaheeds for the panth and Guru have this responsiblity.

Call this personal opnion since i dont have direct proof but fight for khalistan was failed because some in the movement

a) were just people, joe blow soramaie with terrorist intent use khalsa panth for their personal revenges ie- oh guy killed my family, i m going to kill his, all in the garb of kesh, dhara and all in garb of khalsa panth

b) gov't infiltration, nobody is ignoring that, however to use this govt inflitration on every stance is foolishness. to even be more foolish that to deny lack of acknowledgement that there is strategic failure.

c) lack of acknowledgement that there is such thing as "sikhs with terrorist intent, fanaticism within sikhs.

d) ignoring dharam yudh maryada the points are listed in sri dasam granth.

e) ignoring the concept of santhood (dya, dharam, sat, santokh, gyan) and then sipahi, its not other way around, only sipahihood in an person makes them demonic/tamoguni nothing else. You need santhood first and sipahi to anaylise each and every suitation in dharam yudh to questions- how much justified force need to be used? do assessment of dharam yudh, how is it impacting other innocent civilians life? how can one eliminate an target(ruthless killers/oppressors) soo pricesly that no innocent life is lost. And no these attributes of santhood first then sipahihood and questions and assesmment of dharam yudh is not only limited to only jathedar but each one of us who have desire to be shaheeds for the panth and Guru have this responsiblity.

Last but not least, yesterday i went to gurdwara, its my personal observation, but in the langar hall, all i can see pictures of "shaheeds" with no description of what they did, how genuine they were etc. This leads to great misconception if forgein reporter, media person walks in, he/she all they will see its guns, violence ruthless killers thats what they see , they need more information to change what they saw. This needs to be changed, description needs to be added, as for calling each and every sikh with gun in the langar hall - shaheed, i wouldnt go that far, i would hold my judgement until i study them, i think shaheed label itself just like- sant, bhramgyani, gyani, das is been over used and over abused.

Its about time we all re-evaulate our stance on concept of shaheedi laid by our beloved guru's via santhood-sipahihood, dharam yudh maryada lets not use pure term very freely,losely. Not saying to be hard core skeptic fanatic either but just have open mind, bring your own opnion after studying them.

[Guest Hardeep_S_Khalsa]

YOU HAVE GONE TOTALLY OFF THE TOPIC, ATLEAST SINGH PARMER WENT TO INDIA AND FOUGHT FOR THE MOVEMENT.