The Relationship Between Sikh Religion And Sikh Ethnicity

[eduardo]

That's just the thing. The idea of denying somebody entry into the Sikh religion on the basis of their color fills me with revulsion. Sikhi IS open to all.

But on the other hand, I also do not like the idea that our traditions, many with explicitly Punjabi connotations, particularly with regards the script and poetry of our sacred scriptures, might have to be discarded in order to accommodate converts from vastly different cultures. Am I a chauvinist for thinking this way?

No your not a chauvinist and I don't think anything needs to be discarded, but if Sikhism spreads then a lot of the language used in temples will not be Punjabi it will be whatever language is used in that paricular region.

It won't stop you or anyone else practicing your faith in your native tongue and it shouldn't affect your culture either, in your particular temple of worship things will be exactly how you want them to be.

I mean the language of Christ himself was Aramaic and it is still spoken in parts of the world like Syria, the traditions of those people probably still exist and their scriptures will be written in that tongue but it doesn't stop the essence of the message being spread to other parts of the world in many languages.

No doubt you will haveto watch with a suspicious eye to see if other people or countries try to profit from Sikhism and claim it as their own but I can't see that allowing translations into all languages of your scriptures would be a problem at all, you can still maintain your own culture and traditions, basically you can have your cake and eat it too in a manner of speaking.

[Akalifauj]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

The Sikh religion is self-admittedly universal. I do not believe any Sikh would disagree.

The Sikhs of the diaspora (and, it may be said, in India) have fought tooth and nail for a long time in order to be recognized as a distinct ethnic group. The argument which is used most commonly to refute this proposition is that Sikhism is a religion, theoretically open to anyone.

This posters argument is based on a false premise. No accurately researched history page of the Sikhs will say, Sikhs have struggled to be recognized as a distinct ethnic group. It has always been about being recognized as a separate distinct religion. From Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to the Tenth Master and the more recent movement of the 1980s were all about religious freedoms as a distinct religion. Very clearly the Gurus have defined Sikhi in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as distinct and unique with nothing else like it.

Sikhi didn't even start off as a distinct religion (Bhai Mardana referred to himself as a Muslim Sikh), it only became one through the centuries because of the continuous assault and persecution which necessitated a separate identity , hence the conception of Miri-Piri by Guru Hargobind Sahib, and the founding of the Khalsa by our Dashmesh Pita, among other things.

Sikhi without anyone doubt started off as a distinct religion. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji brought Bhai Mardana into Sikhi after coming in contact with him. Gurbani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji and Bhai Mardana show how Sikhi is distinct. Anyone who reads Gurbani can easily see how from the very beginning Sikhi was distinct. The story of how and why Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji was sent to Earth becomes more clear in the Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. In Bachittar Natak the 10 Gurus are separated and fully accepted as the True Gurus of Akal Purakh. Rest of the Devi and Devta are bundled up together and clearly said to be egotistical beings and unable to deliver the true message of Akal Purakh. Brahma, the writer of the Vedas is said to be the root cause of the problem. Brahma through the vedas attached others to duality and forgot about the One; Akal Purakh. These Devi and Devta do not belong to a certain religion.

Sikhi is open to everyone, without question. It is essential to learn Punjabi because Gurbani is written in Gurmukhi. There is not a single person in this world who can accurately provide Gurbani in a different language. Many words do not exist in other languages and the full picture cannot be given in other languages. Hence the need to keep Gurbani in Gurmukhi. Yet there are translation out there in various languages for Gurbani. This clearly shows Sikhs are not holding Sikhi hostage under the umbrella of being recognized as a distinct ethnic group.

[Balkaar]

This posters argument is based on a false premise. No accurately researched history page of the Sikhs will say, Sikhs have struggled to be recognized as a distinct ethnic group. It has always been about being recognized as a separate distinct religion. From Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to the Tenth Master and the more recent movement of the 1980s were all about religious freedoms as a distinct religion. Very clearly the Gurus have defined Sikhi in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as distinct and unique with nothing else like it.

Sikhs haven't struggled to recognized as a separate ethnic group? I beg to differ, as apparently do these links:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/30082/board-rejects-sikh-attempt-list-jews-and-sikhs-ethnicity

http://sikhsiyasat.net/2015/02/04/uk-sikhs-want-separate-ethnic-monitoring-of-sikhs-section-2-of-the-sikh-manifesto-2015-2020-uk/

http://unitedsikhs.org/docs/kyr/KYRCensusRepresentationCard.pdf

The Sikh federation and United Sikhs are among the largest representative bodies of Sikhs and Sikh interests in the UK and US respectively.

I can remember that before the British census of 2011, people were standing with petitions in the Singh Sabha Gurdware in Southall advancing the cause of a separate box under the heading of ethnicity for Sikhs. A lot of signatures were collected.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Sikhs haven't struggled to recognized as a separate ethnic group? I beg to differ, as apparently do these links:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/30082/board-rejects-sikh-attempt-list-jews-and-sikhs-ethnicity

http://sikhsiyasat.net/2015/02/04/uk-sikhs-want-separate-ethnic-monitoring-of-sikhs-section-2-of-the-sikh-manifesto-2015-2020-uk/

http://unitedsikhs.org/docs/kyr/KYRCensusRepresentationCard.pdf

The Sikh federation and United Sikhs are among the largest representative bodies of Sikhs and Sikh interests in the UK and US respectively.

I can remember that before the British census of 2011, people were standing with petitions in the Singh Sabha Gurdware in Southall advancing the cause of a separate box under the heading of ethnicity for Sikhs. A lot of signatures were collected.

Just because they do doesn't make it right.

[Balkaar]

Just because they do doesn't make it right.

Perhaps not, but if I had to make an estimate, I would guess that most Sikhs agree with them, given the mass of support their initiatives have enlisted, and the total nonexistence of any concerted opposition to their moves by any Sikh group.

After Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the second highest authority is invested in the Panth. If this is what most of them want, as seems to be the case, then should it not be so? Panth Khalsa is a democracy is it not?

[Akalifauj]

Sikhs haven't struggled to recognized as a separate ethnic group? I beg to differ, as apparently do these links:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/30082/board-rejects-sikh-attempt-list-jews-and-sikhs-ethnicity

http://sikhsiyasat.net/2015/02/04/uk-sikhs-want-separate-ethnic-monitoring-of-sikhs-section-2-of-the-sikh-manifesto-2015-2020-uk/

http://unitedsikhs.org/docs/kyr/KYRCensusRepresentationCard.pdf

The Sikh federation and United Sikhs are among the largest representative bodies of Sikhs and Sikh interests in the UK and US respectively.

I can remember that before the British census of 2011, people were standing with petitions in the Singh Sabha Gurdware in Southall advancing the cause of a separate box under the heading of ethnicity for Sikhs. A lot of signatures were collected.

Thanks for providing the links, but they don't change anything from what I have already said.

The Sikhs of UK are not trying to say we are ONLY an ethnicity group. But using the current laws and policies to better life for Sikhs in the UK. By being labelled as an ethnicity they will have a platform for their issues to be heard and addressed. Currently the community is a ghost and their problems don't seem real to the government who make budgets to where money is needed and to which communities. In no way is the UK Sikhs saying we are an ethnicity who will not allow others from other ethnicity to be Sikhs. That is a failure on your part to understand why they are calling themselves an "ethnicity".

[eduardo]

Sikhi is universal so cannot be used as an ethnic group but a religious minority yes for sure.

Punjabi's will be viewed as an ethnic minority yes for sure.

A Punjabi Sikh must be well protected in law.

You have double legislation protecting you, what's the problem?

[Akalifauj]

Sikhi is universal so cannot be used as an ethnic group but a religious minority yes for sure.

Punjabi's will be viewed as an ethnic minority yes for sure.

A Punjabi Sikh must be well protected in law.

You have double legislation protecting you, what's the problem?

Before I answer this post. Can you tell me if you are white?

[eduardo]

Yes I am a white man.

[Akalifauj]

Yes I am a white man.

Perfect!, Tell me this. How well do traffic laws work when they are not being enforced by law enforcement?