'image Of The Guru' Shabad

I think* it means picture Guru Sahib's aatmic.

Maybe someone who knows more can go into specifics with Sargun and Nirgun?

I'm not asking a trick question and I don't have any solid answer myself.

I just have my own reasoning and conclusion maybe, but it is a shabad that makes me ask the very same questions I asked above.

I would like to hear what everyone else makes of it !

I'm not asking a trick question and I don't have any solid answer myself.

I just have my own reasoning and conclusion maybe, but it is a shabad that makes me ask the very same questions I asked above.

I would like to hear what everyone else makes of it !

Yeah I know it wasn't a trick question, it's a good question.

I do think when you get a lot of anand from either Raag Kirtan/Kirtan/Path/Simran and shabad starts to vibrate in your being Darshan happens automatically and it's not explainable.

I also want to know what everyone thinks.

It could be referring to a very high avasta when one can see the Light/Jot/Parkash of the Guru within and at the same time one hears the Shabad. At that time your looking at the Guru and also hearing the Guru.

the line in original gurmukhi is..."moorat",

bhai gurdas ji clarifies what the 'moorat' of Satguru Sahib is:

ਗੁਰ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ।

Gur Moorati Gur Sabadu Hai Saadhasangati Mili Anmrit Vaylaa.

गुर मूरति गुर सबदु है साधसंगति मिलि अंम्रित वेला ।

Only the Guru's word is the idol of Guru and this word is received in the holy congregation e ambrosial hours of the day.

(vaar 24, Bhai Gurdas Ji Di Varaan)

Ah, Bhai Gurdas Jee. I was wondering who wrote it. Thanks

I'm glad that most of you understand in a similar way to what I do !!

Some very good sangat on here.

I do believe it is talking about the Guru Shabad or the shabad-guru in particular.

However, I also find that Sat 1176 has touched on the very important aspect of the ''sound'' or 'dhuni' as being the core of this image.(discuss that later)

It is important to realize that the 1st tuk is often misinterpreted on a huge scale !!

Many sant babas and deras have tagged on to this and ask followers to meditate on the image or portrait of the guru or even themselves !!- since some of them call themselves a guru !

A very famous baba of a dera that i'm not going to name has mentioned this tuk and his famous portrait is seen at the homes and shrines of many of his followers.

If Guru Nanak ji wanted us to meditate on a portrait of him, then he would have left us with many different portraits wouldn't he ??

The term used above is ''murti' and NOT ''murat''

since murat means= picture or portrait or some completely sargun aspect.

But Murati means== Characteristics, qualities or virtues of the guru.

The shabad is the divine word of God first spoken and written by Guru Nanakji for us Sikhs, that is why the shabad or word is the Guru.

Knowing this, some people also think that when trying to meditate, we should have the image of gurbani or 'ek onkaar' then instead of Guru Nanakji's image/or other guru's.

But I personally think that it is much more than that !!

-Because the Guru has no form, characteristics, shape or size and is timeless.

In the 2nd line it says 'Gur ka shabad mantar manu mann'

meaning- Take the One word of the Guru,(mantar) and 'manu maan'- accept this in your mind.

So the Guru Murti is nothing but the characteristics and virtues of God which in the shabad are to be reflected upon and then these are enshrined within the mind.

You can call the guru ka shabad the Divine Naam.

and we are to accept and engage our minds in unbroken(at all times) contemplation of this Divine Naam.

I know that none of us can draw a portrait or image of the divine qualities of naam and then reflect on them can we??

The contemplation and shabad vichaar does not leave any sirgun image or imprint that defines the virtue.

This is very important from what I gather and with simran and vichaar we can eventually enshrine the guru shabad in our minds.

Then once we progress, we can get a 'feel' of what 'Gur Murti' really means !!

The Gurbani repeatedly makes it clear that the True Guru is Shabad-Roop, and the Essence of the shabad is bodiless, timeless, spaceless, beginingless, endless, eternal, and all-pervading. Therefore, as the Gurbani reveals to us, contemplation on the one Gur-Shabad (Naam) given to us by the Satgur is the real "Gur-Moorati", everything else is a material speculation or logic based on our mental circus (false ego or ignorance).

In other words, with the continued practice of Shabad-Vichaar, their arises the Transcendental Vibratory Sound (Dhuni) within, and the contemplation on this Dhuni is the true "Gur Moorati".

• ਧੁਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਨੀ ॥੩॥: Dhuni mahi dhiaanu dhiaan mahi jaaniaa Gurmukhi akath kahaanee: (ang 879)
• Meditation is in the Dhuni (of Naam, Shabad-Surti, Unstruck Sound-current, etc.), and His knowing (God-realization, etc.) is in such meditation. Become the Gurmukh, and speak the Unspoken Speech (i.e., the Lord's Unspoken Speech - ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਨੀ - can be realized or be known only by becoming the Gurmukh)

This dhuni can be achieved with his grace and we have to make the effort to get to that level.

Sat 1176, has mentioned this above and it is also when the dasam duar begins to open (I don't want to go off-topic now)

The question is- What do you do as a beginner ????

Because you are not going to experience the transcendental sounds and vibrations as a newbie beginner !!

- The answer is to do the 'shabad vichaar'

to live the gurbani and act and perceive it in everything around you.

The more we reflect and contemplate Gurbani then the more it will sink into the heart. Once it has sunk, it places it's feet firmly there and that is called the ''Guru- Charan''

I think the real importance is understanding the whole shabad in this essence and then trying to move forward keeping in mind some of the points mentioned above.

I know that when you start simran it is very difficult to get moving and sometimes some of you will just feel stuck in a time warp, but keep at it and keep that love and thirst there.

I think it is important to have this thirst and love for Akal Purakh and with simran it should start growing and growing.

However, from my personal experience I can also confirm that I too started off by just picturing a portrait of Guru Nanak ji in my mind when trying to meditate.

I also knew that I wasn't worshipping the picture but just using it to steady my corrupt mind in helping me get on the simran/meditation path.

Therefore, I think that at early stages it is ok to do this if it helps you, but you have to know that you really need to be living and breathing gurbani to get the real 'gur moorati'.

The contemplation and shabad vichaar as well as the love has to be there.

It takes time, effort, love and his grace but then you get to a stage where you don't need an image of any such portrait. Then the light, image and sound of shabad vibration starts to reveal itself and you know that the inner-knower (antarjami) is revealing himself and confirming the love.

I know some people like to sit in front a Guru's portrait when they are trying to find these ropes and I think that it is OK as long you know what the real Guru Moorati means and what you are doing at the starters level.

The shabad speaks very loudly for a gurmukh and that is where we should all try to see ourselves at eventually. From gursikh to khalsa to gurmukh !

But the mind circus plays with us so much and keeps trying to hold us down in the dualities.

We have to sometimes play with these same dualities to conquer them and help us steer into the ONE that is Akaal Purakh.