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Vaaheguroo, that's so true, thank you for that Daasakedaas

I was there taking a stand a long time before any goray. So were a good few Sikh boys I know. Just because you weren't around then, or was too young, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I don't want to go on about this now anyway. You know how the police are. But I will say that the people that did take a stand never for one second contemplated running to goray for help. Are you blind to the fact that westernisation is half responsible for apneean being turned into idiots in the first place? Seriously Singh. See the writing on the wall. Leave the EDL. No man. What they are doing is right. Get out now. This isn't the way to fight them. Let goray and sullay fight it out between themselves for a while.

MONEY! Lots of it.

I would hazard a guess that you're under 30 and have not experienced much of the world outside of Sikhi, and maybe even outside of the UK (or whichever country you reside in)?? May I recommend that you get some time in...!! and more importantly get out amongst the non-amritdhari community to gain an appreciation of what their views are. We as amritdharis sometimes think we are superhuman and superior, when actually we must remember that we are the dust beneath the feet of others. This the last post I will submit to this thread. Please forgive me if I have offended you in any way by posting my remarks. Humble regards Daasakedaas

If what you are saying is true. And given the widely held perception that hordes of apneean and apnay are running around confused or like animals on heat, it seems like a lot of that parchaar you are talking about is going over big chunks of the Sikh communities head. I know for a fact that warning apneean against sullay has been going on for 15 years at least. Still you get apneean in relationships with them all over the shop? Maybe now we should start asking what we are doing wrong that this happens so often? Maybe we aren't doing anything wrong? I don't see much original coming from yourself either mate. Plus you'd make a great Indian politician too as you don't have much of a plan about anything. Plus my position has been consistent for years. It's you that sees terrifying bogeymen in old aged Hindus like that Sharma guy. Like the average apna is at all under some threat from that guy or he has any impact on them. Personally I couldn't give a cr@p about petty Southall type politics that has absolutely no bearing on the vast majority of the world outside West London, and frankly doesn't even really have much of an impact on the lives of people there either at ground level! What I found absolutely ridiculous about you was how, in an earlier post, you were suggesting that because some Hindu political guy also made a statement against knobs like the EDL, any Sikhs who signed up to the same statement are tools of the Hindus/Indian government. If you use logic, you'd see that the vast majority of people who signed that thing were Sikhs, so you could say the Hindu was actually jumping on the Sikh bandwagon. This from you is classic: Where do you get your logic from? If the fact that a statement signed by multiple Sikhs across the UK against the EDL is also signed by other people, (who may well be dodgy as you suggest, I don't know them), is making some dumbo apnay threaten to fraternise with the EDL, you need to condemn those clueless Sikhs - that's all. Not indirectly validate their preposterous, ill thought out, dimwitted decision. I'll take that as youthful exuberance......please don't ever try threatening me again.

When you can't find your own topics/posts, just click on the drop down arrow by your name on top of the banner and click "my content" which will present all the topics and posts made by yourself.

http://zafarnama.com/Download/ganjnama.pdf

It is much easier for even an average girl/ woman to get used and approached and abused by many a guy than it is for a good looking man to be entrapped by a women just to sleep with him or enter in relationship with him. So once girls within our community get their head around this and implement it to block out all non-sikh guys (or women in some cases with the rise of lesbians) from their social networks and thought process and solely look for a male partner of the Sikh faith. Then you will see a generation of the best of Sikh women, at the moment we have one of the worst generations of so called Sikh women ever produced and the men are not far behind. But if we take action now we can turn things around and make our sisters and daughters strengthened and shielded from negative attentions from men of non-sikh backgrounds.

Apologies for not leaving a 'moved' link Veerjeo, will be more careful next time :waheguru:

So farmore than 20k has been raised, im sure if we could get this up to 40k the bank will accept this amount and extend the payment deadline. I dont think they would repossess in a market where no one is buying.

Very well stated. Dal khalsa india chief is with darshan ragi and attended his function three days back. such people are not trustworthy.

Quick Question; is not doing a sant jee shaheedee prog dividing the panth? what is the need for such a prog? can't a prog just be done in the yaadgaree of smooh khalsa panth shaheed's, by puttin sant jees name on it, its 100% gonna start trouble! challo, other than that bssf are doing well, some of their alighnments are not the best, but there trying!

By creating random groups you yourselves are dividing the panth, whats the need for some youth group when the Khalsa is already there? What other group could you possibly require? Is Maharajs panth not good enough that everyone needs to make their own lil groups?? Also as everyone is entitled to their opinion why is 1kAuR1 and Only five being attacked? There is no requirement to vindicate our belief. Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji apni laadli fauj nu chardi kala bakshe! Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale nu chardi kala wich rakey!

Short clip from Balwindar Rana's interview with XL Radio yesterday on the topic of Sikhs within the English Defence League. http://soundcloud.co...ence-league-edl or http://www.turbancampaign.com/updates/balwindar-xlradio/

UPDATE 15/01/2011: Councillor Gurdial Bhamra, London Borough of Redbridge signs joint statement condemning the English Defence League Quote from correspondence: "We need to ensure that our young blood are not influenced by their policies."

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh There is a Raensabaayee @ Bebe Nanaki Gurdwara, Handsworth, Birmingham. Saturday 19th February 2011 (Evening) to Sunday 20th February 2011 (Early Morning) 7:00pm to 5:00am Bebe Nanaki Gurdwara 189 Rookery Road Handsworth Birmingham B21 9PX Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

The danger is an environment of 'normalisation' sets in and so many apnay/apneean get with others that it becomes almost like a norm i.e. no big deal. The question to ask is how far ahead is this if things remain as they are? Or are we there already? When working it's like half of the apneean I meet are married to nonSikhs? And it's been like this for years. I do recognise however that the work environment may not reflect the wider trends in the community. What I do think however, is that as a whole the community seems to have a very poor grasp of female psychology.

Vaaheguroo, Anybody know how we would go about making this idea viable? where to start???

Gift Aid and Gurdwaras. This may bore many people, but I think as educated Gursikhs we should be taking more responsibility in making our Gurdwaras aware of their rights/benefits as a Charity. As the majority of our Gurdwara/Sikh Organisation are set up as a charity, we would benefit by joining the HMRC Gift Aid Scheme. The Gift Aid scheme is for gifts of money (donations) by individuals who pay UK tax. It increases the value of donations to charities by allowing them to reclaim basic rate tax on your gift. For every £1 Sangat donate whether through membership or donations, HM Revenue and Customs can give the Gurdwara 25p, which means that for donations of £1,000, the Gurdwara can receive an additional £250. This might mean receipting Sangat's donations (who are UK tax payers), but a simple tick in the right box means more tax relief for the Gurdwara. If the committee operated smartly, they could receipt the entire weeks Gurdwara Kirtan Peta (for example) to a member of the Sangat who can tick the Gift Aid box so that the Gurdwara can claim back the Gift Aid. It's a simple tax efficient way of getting the most out of the Sangat's donation. A prime example is if the £150,000 deficit of Mata Sahib Kaur Academy was collected entirely from UK tax payers then the Academy could get an additional £37,500 from HM Revenue and Customs. I am sure this will go a long way in helping with the finances.

I'm not an unforgiving person by nature, but this is one issue - in my eyes - you simply can't return from. Once that line has been crossed and a Sikh girl enters relations with a Muslim lad (or a Sikh guy with a Muslim girl), there is no turning back. Its a spit in the face of all the hundreds and thousands of our ancestors who died to resist Islam. Now, our girls are willingly entering into relationships with them? The only reason a Muslim guy portrays himself as mellow, respectful, etc., is to snare imbecilic Sikh girls in the first place. Once he's had his way with her (or impregnated her with his seed) Allah has apparently reserved a special place for him in Heaven, as he has brought another "Kuffar" into the fold. Pathetic - absolutely pathetic.

Nice one. I'll probably get the freesat dish fitted and done during the summer when I'm staying at home for a few weeks. Thanks for the research, sister!

Whilst I can clearly understand your point of view, don't you think its sad that we have to change our inherent nature (or Sikhi's natural attributes) to "get people through the door"? Where would it stop just so that people can be initially welcomed into the fold, as it were? Do you understand what I'm trying to say? If the youth are not being attracted towards the proper and respectful way of Sikhi, then surely that's a failing in them and not a weakness in the Sikhi way of life? Therefore the Sikhi way should not have to be modified or skewed in order to appeal to them. I do appreciate your point, but I must say that Sikhi should always prevail.

Southall Youth and Sarabha Panjab's logic. Some Singh doesn't like the taste of Marmite + Verindra Sharma also doesn't like the taste of Marmite.... Conclusion: Damn!! The Singh must be an undercover member of RSS/BJP/Black cats/The Indian Congress Party etc. etc. and in cahoots with their agents as can be seen by their mutual open hatred of Marmite........ Balle balle twaday mundeyo......real life Banta/Santa Singh type characters. Who needs Hindus to make us look intellectually challenged huh?

Here is a question, can't a sacrifice also be described as a suicide? Also, i'm not trying to be rude, but you need to look at how i replied to sikh soldier. In there it's clearly showed how Satguru's shaheddi in the 9th form is not self inflicted but done by force. Losing hope and then killing yourself is one form of suicide. By your defintion of suicide then the terrorist that blow up the twin tours were not on a sucidal mission. What about the the people that attach a bomb to themselves and blow themselves up. Your defintion is way to narrow and suicide is defined by the word intent. Again read the post I wrote to Sikh soldier, it clearly shows what intent means, regarding suicide. The reason doesn't matter when it comes to the definition of suicide. ONLY the intention of taking your life matters. That's how suicide is defined generally and thats how Gurbani looks at it. Read Sri Jap Ji Sahib where Satguru speaks of hukams. I explained this also in the post to sikh soldier.

My recipe works quite well for the cake sponge. Ingredients Self raising flour 8ounces Margerine 4ounces Condensed milk 420g tin Milk- fill the 420g tin Baking powder 1tsp Mix together all ingredients and put into greased baking tray. Bake for 35-40mins at gm5. Poke with a fork at 35mins just to check its baked inside. Leave to cool. I dont make a frosting but I make buttercream icing. Whisk together icing sugar 500g with softened butter 30gish.

What a Brilliant Idea!!

perhaps sangat should start investing in farmland instead of building huge new expensive gurdwaras in the uk. We could then keep our own cows and also grow our own crops for langar. Just an idea for the future perhaps.

self edited Please note as of june 2011 daas Uttam Singh (Singhstah) is no longer associated with the Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy

Malwarebytes- malware and viruses CC Cleaner- cleans excess junk AVG Free edition or nod32 free/trial. - antivirus (choose one, avg or nod32. uninstall your current antivirus if you choose to switch) Also secunia PSI - http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/ Secunia automatically detects outdated programs and installs plugins to protect you from threats. Uninstall all of the excess you don't need and perform a defrag if it isn't already scheduled to do so.

Sikh political groups are not trust-able and they only believe in Akal Takht Sahib in writing only. Example; Dal Khalsa groups (UK, USA, India) are big supporters of ex-sikh Darshan ragi; gurmatas/hukam came out of akal takht sahib to disconnect ragi links/friendship but UK and India group didn't do it.. Whether one agree with what ragi did or not, thats not the point but the point is where they stand on their words when they say "We stand under Akal Takht Banner"... This is one example to show how punjabiat pendu style working of mostly all groups/organization. Do not support anyone unless you want to waste your time and energy. Work with non-profit but non-political groups such as united sikhs etc...

Southall joker sorry southall youth calm down. I do feel that going to parliament wont help. I dont like the BSSF signature or other similar ones. I started the topic because being a southall youth I had never heard of BSSF ever. And from my second post I made my feelings clear. Everyone is entitled to post which they have but seriously whats it to you if i posted or whatever else your problem is. Bottom line the question has been answered. I wont be posting again but your all welcome to continue.

My original post was not a firestarter. I just wanted to know if BSSF are an AK47 spin off as they associate with Dal Khalsa and SAD. I got my answer. I do agree that BSSF have responded amicably, whereas other forum members have gotten a little hot under the collar. You have the option not to post. The issue about attending parliament. I have on several occasions met with MPs and they dont actuallly care. They will not interfere in another democracy or deal with old issues. But good luck none the less. Again everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and I am entitled to mine which I have put across as diplomatically as possible.

I agree with you, i never meant to hint that i thought it was gurmat or it wasn't suicide. I'm just respecting the courage it took to do what he believes was right.

I agree with you, but thats harsh, "flower power hippies and grow some nuts" that was uncalled for.

omg seriously...singho next your gonna be telling me khadkus have begun to burn themselves in obtaining khalistan LOL....you want to know why bhuddism disappeared from afghanistan and india...well you have your evidence right there....bhuddists believe shastar is evil...the khalsa see shastar as their masters!!...tyrants are not swayed by self immolation...tyrants have no hearts...tyrants need to be hunted down and then decapitated....stop being flower power hippies and grow some nuts!

How is he a mahan Shaheed when he burned himself to bits. Thats called suicide and Gurmat does not agree with it. His cause could have been righteous but his way of dealing with it was wrong. Why burn yourself when you can pick up a sword.

Updates 16/01/2011 Cllr Balvir Sond (Hounslow West Ward) signs joint statement condemning the English Defence League. Mr. Balwindar Rana (United Against Fascism) was today featured on XLRadio (http://www.xlradio.ca/) and discussed the topic of mislead Sikhs involved in the English Defence League.

According to pratan maryada there was no anand karaj before amrit sanchar, i.e. amrit sanskar must take place before anand sanskar, this is the pratan Guru maryada which has only been violated recently. Therefore anand karaj before amrit sanchar cannot ever be fully in accordance with Gurmat for anyone. And then of course for anand karaj both the singh and singhni must be amritdhari only. This should help greatly in interpreting the hukamnama, based on this maryada, in my mind the hukamnama is telling you to take amrit now and then get married to a chardikala amritdhari singh. Talk before marriage is just talk, they may agree to amrit now and say they will do it after marriage, but after the marriage is done how do you know for sure they will then go through with it? You would get taken down as well. Read more here: http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,5046,5046 In terms of finding an amritdhari, I am sure with Guru Ji's kirpa it is no problem, one thing you can do is get panj singh to do ardas in guru mahraj's hazoori (lareevar saroop if possible) and ask for the person in your sanjog to become pargat. also http://akj.org/skins/one/matrimonial.php offers a service for gursikhs.

I think another issue I'd like to bring to the table, is that if a person is honest about their nature, and appreciates that they really like the "lure of flesh", then it is best to get married. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with these earthly relations - its just that you may as well have a socially acceptable (and religiously accepted) outlet for your desires if one is that way inclined. But if you're not really fussed about these kind of issues, and such relations aren't your "cup of tea" (for whatever reason) then I suppose there's no harm in not entering the married way of life. After reading the myriad of equally valid views and opinions from the sangat in this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the best solution is to seek a life partner. However, if such a journey does not bear fruit, then I guess there's no shame in remaining single. (Just my opinion - most likely far from the truth but still my opinion).

UPDATE: 06/01/2011 Lakhbir Singh, Labour Councillor (former Mayor of Luton), Luton, signs the joint statement condemning the English Defence League (EDL) & British National Party (BNP). Worth noting that Lakhbir Singh was a victim of a physical racial attack by EDL supporters. Full statement can be read at: http://www.turbancam...tement-release/ To support the statement please email movement@turbancampaign.com.

West London 'Singh' apologist for the EDL. Are you for real..........

Update 05/01/2011 Kings College London Sikh Society signs joint-statement. To sign the statement please email movement@turbancampaign.com The statement can be viewed at the below URL: http://www.turbancampaign.com/updates/joint-statement-release/

This is your common EDL member, picture taken from one of their rallies.

Dear Brothers and Sisters, Waheguru ji ki Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh. We would like to update the community of recent signatories who support the joint statement. 27/12/2010 • Darshan Singh Gurm, General Secretary, Singh Sabha London East Barking & Seven Kings. • R. Singh, Spokesperson, Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy, Newbury Park, Ilford. 29/12/2010 • Gurcharan Singh, Councillor, Ealing Southall Quote from supporting email: "I am fully supportive of the joint statement and subscribe to it in full. This (EDL and BNP) menace must be fought on every step of the way." The full statement can be found at the URL below along with PDF copies of the signatures: http://www.turbancam...tement-release/

How can a Sikh join a movement that is based upon the hatred of every Muslim around? I hate Muslim extremists with a passion and have fought with them in the past, but the blind hatred of an entire group is something no Sikh should ever join and literally throws mud on our great values. What of the great Sufi Muslims who were the companions of our masters? They also believed in the same Allah. Anyhow let's just suppose for one minute that this group is "safe" for us to join. Once they have got rid of the Muslims or scared then into submission, what guarantee is there they they won't turn on us? Having read the views of many of them, they are just going along with this whole "bring the other Asians on board" stuff to accomplish an objective. I can recall the leader of the BNP Nick Griffen doing this as well, something which I might add failed miserably. People should recall what he famous German pastor, Martin Niemmoller said about the rise of the Nazis: They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and by that time no one was left to speak up. We are More than capable of handling any threat posed by people who wish our community harm, which has been demonstrated in the past. We don't need drug, drink fuelled racists in order to do so. Guru fateh

Who are Sikh 'leaders'? If you mean the old foggies that run Gurdwaras (usually corruptly too), then I'm not surprised that they stay quiet and get on with fleecing funds. Fact is, we haven't got any real leaders in the UK. By this I mean ones that have the support of the majority of the diverse panth, not self appointed ones or ones of various jathas. Plus for an apna to threaten to join rightwing chav goray because people aren't vocally bad mouthing sullay is plain dumb. I live in and have lived in a lot of sullay majority areas. Do you know how much impact EDL bewakoofi has here? I'll tell you - zip, zilch, nowt, nothing! If anything, those idiots (like shortsighted gora policy in general of late) have done nothing but unite Muslims more than ever. Even ones that were at each others throats before. Plus I was around when apnay were at the forefront of challenging Al Mujjaroin types years ago, so don't go on like apnay didn't deal with this issue a long time before low class goray jumped on the wagon and turned it into some chest beating, lager lout days out. Don't be under the illusion that we HAVE TO choose a side between the rightwing tramp gora position and Islamic extremists. We don't. The people that do join the goray are the ones who are so terrified of sullay that they have lost their minds to an extent. That isn't Singh (lion) style at all. In fact it's a bit giddarh when you think about it.....

Just because a Sikh group and a Hindu one are both anti EDL it doesn't make them pals dude. I don't like extremist Islam either but that doesn't make me a supporter of some trash Islamophobic white group who doesn't like them either. How old are you? In any case, tell me who the real K'stanis are these days as opposed to the fake ones please?

Some of us are old enough and worldlywise enough to see yobbo goray low life scum when we see them. I know plenty of Sikhs who faced up to extremist sullah, none of them crawled up a gorays butt in order to do this. Any apna that does is a disgrace and a sell out. Funny how when you see these EDL types Facebook accounts they always have tons of friends who are openly BNP, NF, Combat 18 supporters. Leaders of the EDL have BNP links. Get your head out of the sand and see reality before you embarrass yourself and the quom with your sycophancy and lack of astuteness in these matters.

There's ways of making a stand against certain Islamic groups without joining the EDL. We're not doing ourself any favours by aligning with these far-right groups - even though they argue they aren't far-right.