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What purpose does a picture of a human serve in the diwan hall? The mind should focus on Shabad Guru and no be distracted by paintings of humans. Ultimately the intention of the committees having these portraits hanging play a big part as well as the minds of those who attend. Our dhiaan should be as described in the pangti: ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਲੈ ਧਾਰਉ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥1॥

WJKK WJKF To raise the caste issue with the older generation is a no win situation. Only the ones what accept Gurmat will understand. It is them who are strongly attached to it and will have to deal with it. I'm more worried about the future of sikhi, not the past. Hence why my protest is on here. I don't teach my kids about caste supremacy, just equality. So if the younger generation can read my protest on here's do read our correspondence....it's a good thing. That's the only reason why I post on here.

WJKK WJKFPenji, I haven't singled you out ever in any topic, this particular topic nor replied so rudely to any of your opinions, like you said, I have my own opinion but I try and base it on Maryada because my own opinion is flawed. I quoted you earlier because you were the topic poster. I have highlighted only what I saw in the video and against Maryada and refer it back to my original point. Not to argue, but to open debate. I have not said anywhere that I am perfect or a gret sikh? I have many sins to which I will account for. However, the position panjab is in, is due to many of our own people. Not just the government. The people mentioned in my post are contributors to the "panjabi culture" therefore they are to blame aswell. Not to be venerated as great "role models".

When I go to any of the Nanaksar Gurdwara, I been to, to be honest I don't even realise the pictures are there. Our focus should be on Guruji's words, listening to what they are saying and bowing down to them only. Even I don't know why the pictures are there. I have never bowed down to the other pictures or worshipped them in any way. I wouldn't say Nanaksar samparda are doing idol worship, as far as my understanding is, they have good Satkaar for Maharaj ji, and this sounds odd, but I've never seen any committee fights or any kind of violence or inappropriate behaviour in the Gurdwaras, whereas I've heard of it in others.

A wonderful effort by Kilmore School kids who held Sikhi Awareness Stall & fundraising for Khalsa Aid with their yummy Golgappe stall... Well done - Tejpartap Singh, Mansukhleen Kaur, Jaipreet Kaur & Bhavneet Kaur Source - https://www.facebook.com/singhstation.net

WJKK WJKF Nah, just people who taint sikhi with contradiction.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/watch-female-pickpockets-steal-jewellery-11054952 it's made the news and here's the explanation as to why they put a chain round the victim's neck.

The main problem here is ignorance. The sangat trust the raagis and the Giani jis to know what they are doing and do it the right way. I think the lowering of the standards of kirtan performance is because most Giani jis we have performing this seva have actually turned to kirtan as a way of getting out of India. We personally knew a Giani ji who was actually a person who rows people across the river... kisti chalaun vala and he learned a few tunes on the vaja. As long as you can sing some gurbani on the vaja - outside country committees will be fooled as to you can perform kirtan. He had a forged giani certificate. The sakhis he told us - got mixed up in between and he had a business running on the side for him. In his free time he was selling stuff to people and even this stuff was sort of fake. Once someone bought a fixo from him and it was watery and useless. He forged reciepts too. A lady gave him 50 shillings and he cleverly wrote her a receipt of 50 and on the carbon copy it said 5. The lady came to my dad who was sevadaar at that time. This was all insider information which we were able to get at because my dad had access to the paper copies of the Guradwara. As long as this continues and we keep getting fooled, kirtan maryada cannot be adhered to. Another giani ji - this one was a genuine one came and he was all the time getting framed up by these others. No one has the time to follow up activities which go on in guradwaras. Our committees are the ones who employ people from India and they can only respond to applications they receive. No one makes an active effort to go seek the actual real and well trained giani's who will perform kirtan in maryada and not look at it as a way of simply making money. These gianis then move on from countries like Kenya to go on to canada and Uk. If possible then we should have our own trained youth to perform kirtan in the Guradwaras. There is no place where at present (or maybe there is) where a reputable person from India can impart such precious knowledge to our own youngsters who can learn and perform kirtan and also educate the sangat on the correct way of performing kirtan.

Not just Basant, but even when the season changes a shabad in a time appropriate raag should be sung. At least do a shabad in raag at the beginning rather then forget completely about this great musical organization of shabads. At least start off with even any easy and simple taal/beat and shabad. The Raag problem is just one problem the panth isn't really noticing right now

Rather than starting a new thread, May I add this pic here please, Paji?

Penji Kaurp, I don't know if I will be of any help to you, but if you want to share any concerns or talk about anything, you are welcome to message me. I can listen to whatever is worrying you, sometimes it helps to write out our dukhs anonymously, which maybe less of a burden to keep stressing over it. Plus, I will not judge you on anything, I'm here if you need somebody to listen to you.

Be mindful, my friend, of understanding basic legal principles and how apt or non-apt they might be to Sikhi. As far as this 'innocent until proven guilty' lark goes we need to discard any claims that it is an invention of English Common Law (which Canada and America also practice) and understand that the principle's origins lay in the Roman Law practiced in mainland Europe who took the principle from the Christian Bible, notably the story of Adam and Eve and the way God could only judge Adam as guilty once testimonies were heard and more importantly from Deutoronomy 19:15 and the story of Moses whereby he said if God needs to summon witnesses before passing judgement then humans must also do so, i.e innocent until proven guilty. So, not wanting to base my Sikhi ideals on made up stories from the Christian faith, I would say Sikhi is pretty clear-cut (i.e without the need for Christian witnesses and testimonies) in that a Sikh should marry, have children and live the life of a hard-working householder.

There are no rigid rules as such one should be celibate or gristhi as everyone has different karam, many are give gristh jevan handful of them are not, its balance in universe also known as aspect of hakum, some despite of gristh jevan cant have kids and are baren, their gristhi jeevan turns out to be half futile. The minute we start super imposing one brush or one rule on entire human race not only we undermine diverse hakum of akaal purkh which is always unfolding in the eternal present moment- here and now but we also become spiritually bankrupt. Nanaksar started off as celibate sect but its quite diverse as many jathedars who were inspired by baba nand singh allowed gristhi jevan singhs in their jatha as time evolved so there is no rule as such in nanaksar one have to be celibate.

Exactly. Somehow it has now come to such a state that today people think grahisti means selfish and celibate means selfless. Now we have Singhs who want to dedicate themselves to seva thinking they should become celibate because they are under the misconception (ਗਲਤਫਹਿਮੀ) that they are making a big balidaan or sacrifice and that Guru Sahib will be more happy because of this. But who can be more dedicated than grahists like Sant Bhindranwale, Sukhdev Singh Babbar or Baba Manochahal? And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The list of Shaheeds and Mahapursh and Bhagats who have been grahists is endless.So in conclusion, celibacy has NOTHING to do with Gurmat Marg as revealed by Guru Jees either spiritually or Rehit wise. If a person wants to become celibate for some other reason they can do so but they should not be under the misconception that it will make them closer or higher in the Kripa Drishti of Vaheguru.

Most married men after a few kids wish they were celibate. Anyway per Anand Chamatkar 5.Vols Biography of Baba Nand Singh. He didn't twist anybodies arm to stay with him. Women could visit him if accompanied by Father, brother or husband. To enter or exit celibate order is ones free will. I have seen then come and go no big deal.

Guys there are many verses in favour of Grehasti's and some which are not. Call it choice or Destiny some people are meant to be celibate Mahapurakhs. Many taking celibate path will become notorious & corrupt so watch out !

WJKK WJKF People like gippy go on and on promoting everything but sikhi, like their caste supremacist views and the whole sharan/Balle balle scene, yet to make more money they being these sort of films out and once again contradict everything they stand for. Just like Diljit Dosanj and many others. Majority of people ignore this fact.

Exactly why celibacy has absolutely nothing to do with Sikhi. Never has and never will. Gurus and the Bhagat Sahiban have taught us by leading by example. When they were on earth many Hindu Sanyasis would question them of how they can live Grahisti jeevan i.e. having a wife and be father to many children yet still follow parmarth, path to God.But repeatedly our Gurus told them that celibacy, mon dharna(staying silent), going off to the mountains and jungles will not bring their minds to control. Only Naam can do that which can be done while living grahisti jeevan. And to aid us in that Guru jee gave us a spiritual discipline called rehit which if followed by a Grahist he/she can become like the lotus flower which remains beautiful and uneffected by the dirty water around it. And you bring in a good point. If we all become celibate and stop having children what would become of the Guru's Panth? We would destroy it which would be a disservice to the Gurus.

https://youtu.be/TBpMin2hQzI Love Ragi Baldev Singh's (Gnnsj) kirtan. Does anyone know where I can get more Shabads of his. https://youtu.be/7jvLTRAG2fs Also love Bhai Avtar Singh Ragi's kirtan. In general I'm a fan of Raag Kirtan too.

I am not interested at all on how you see idol worship. Gurbani defines idol worship perfectly so don't need your definition. The object (stone/picture) can not provide no knowledge: ਪਾਨ ਥਕੇ ਪਾਹਿਨ ਕੱਹ ਪਰਸਤ ਕਛੁ ਕਰ ਸਿੱਧ ਨ ਆਈ ॥੧॥ Because it has no knowledge to give: ਤਾ ਮੈ ਕਹਾਂ ਸਿੱਧ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਜੜ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਛੂ ਬਰ ਦੈ ਹੈ ॥੨॥ The object (stone/picture) is dead: ਜੌ ਜਿਯ ਹੋਤ ਦੇਤ ਕਛੁ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰ ਮਨ ਬਚ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥ Worship is taking the above defined object and saying it is God or representation of God; therefore treating it in this manner, which can range from by putting it on a higher platform, putting garland around it, singing to it, bathing it, etc. Each religion has there own way of worship so defining worship in totality cannot be done.

My all time favourite - Bhai Gopal Singh Jee Raagi. & Assa Jee Dee Vaar by Bhai Surinder Singh Jee Jodhpuri.

http://searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/ang/901 http://sikhroots.com/audio-mp3/H/49-bhai-harjinder-singh/667-deen-daiyal-bharose-tere/7923-gur-paras-hum-loh.html http://searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/ang/1114