kuthaman

Through Studying religion as my major I have picked up a lot on different faiths. I will do my best to help. Just post the questions

http://www.youtube.com/profile?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&user=nijjhar1 http://www.nijjhar.freeserve.co.uk/sikhism.htm

In the past few months I have been hearing about this Jakara movement in southern california, but what are its origins and motivations. I have read their site, but I am not satisfied with the information. Does anybody know anything about the origins and what have you heard about this organization. All your help is sincerely appreciated.

Here are some books in pdf. They should help you learn a lot. The Max Arthur Maculiffe set is probably the best introduction. It covers erverything!! Max Arthur Macauliffe The Sikh Religion in 6 volumes This probably the most comprehensive set on Sikhism compiled in the early 20th century. The author was mesmerized by a Sikh celebration. The man began to do a lot of research and found out that there was not much information on the Sikh religion. In cooperation with the Great Sikh Scholar Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha and through rigorous labor they produced this book set on Sikhism. The mans British superioirs criticized him for turning a Sikh. In his servants memoirs it is recorded that about 30 minutes before he passed away he was reciting the Japji Sahib. This man dedicated his life to this. The book set has gone into public domain and is available. It is an insult to this mans life if we do not learn from this monumental work. THis work CONTAINS EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING you can imagine on Sikhi.!!!!!!!! Note: These pdf files range from 25-50mgs and to save them right click and save target as. Enjoy!!!!!! Volume One http://www.archive.org/download/thesikhreligion01macauoft/thesikhreligion01macauoft.pdf Volume Two http://www.archive.org/download/thesikhreligioni02macauoft/thesikhreligioni02macauoft.pdf Volume Three http://www.archive.org/download/thesikhreligio203macauoft/thesikhreligio203macauoft.pdf Volume Four http://www.archive.org/download/thesikhreligioni03macauoft/thesikhreligioni03macauoft.pdf Volume Five http://www.archive.org/download/thesikhreligioni05macauoft/thesikhreligioni05macauoft.pdf Volume Six http://www.archive.org/download/thesikhreligioni06macauoft/thesikhreligioni06macauoft.pdf Guru Nanak The life and teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji By Thakur Singh Ji http://www.archive.org/download/gurunanaklifeand00singuoft/gurunanaklifeand00singuoft.pdf

Read This Teja Singh - The Sikh Religion. http://www.scribd.com/doc/18758207/Sikh-Religion-Teja-Singh

Good Service to the Community.

Quotes Page 861, Line 7 ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥ ब्राहमणु खत्री सूद वैस चारि वरन चारि आस्रम हहि जो हरि धिआवै सो परधानु ॥ Barāhmaṇ kẖaṯrī sūḏ vais cẖār varan cẖār āsram hėh jo har ḏẖi▫āvai so parḏẖān. There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned. Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 747, Line 19 ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ खत्री ब्राहमण सूद वैस उपदेसु चहु वरना कउ साझा ॥ Kẖaṯrī barāhmaṇ sūḏ vais upḏes cẖahu varnā ka▫o sājẖā. The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings. Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1036, Line 1 ਵਰਨ ਭੇਖ ਨਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ॥ वरन भेख नही ब्रहमण खत्री ॥ varan bẖekẖ nahī barahmaṇ kẖaṯrī. There were no castes or social classes, no religious robes, no Brahmin or Kh'shaatriya. Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok मः २ ॥ Mėhlā 2. Second Mehl: ਜੋਗ ॥ जोग सबदं गिआन सबदं बेद सबदं ब्राहमणह ॥ Jog sabḏaʼn gi▫ān sabḏaʼn beḏ sabḏaʼn barāhmaṇėh. The Way of Yoga is the Way of spiritual wisdom; the Vedas are the Way of the Brahmins. ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ॥ खत्री सबदं सूर सबदं सूद्र सबदं परा क्रितह ॥ Kẖaṯrī sabḏaʼn sūr sabḏaʼn sūḏar sabḏaʼn parā kirṯėh. The Way of the Khshatriya is the Way of bravery; the Way of the Shudras is service to others. ਸਰਬ ॥ सरब सबदं एक सबदं जे को जाणै भेउ ॥ Sarab sabḏaʼn ek sabḏaʼn je ko jāṇai bẖe▫o. One who knows this secret that the Way of all is the Way of the One; <A class=dict onmouseover="ddrivetip('iNānak /i', 250)" onmouseout=hideddrivetip() href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕੁ" ;>ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦੇਉ ॥੩॥ नानकु ता का दासु है सोई निरंजन देउ ॥३॥ Nānak ṯā kā ḏās hai so▫ī niranjan ḏe▫o. ||3|| Nanak is a slave to him, he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||3|| Dasam Granth Sahib: Page 1, Line 10 He who is without mark or sign, He who is without caste or line. Page 4, Line 5 Salutation to Thee O Casteless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Lineless Lord ! Page 13, Line 13 Thou art Nameless, Placeless, Casteless, Formless, Colourless and Lineless. Page 14, Line 8 How to know Thee when thou art Formless, Colourless, Casteless and without lineage? Page 14, Line 9 Thou art without father and mother and art casteless, Thou art without births and deaths. Page 15, Line 3 Thou art without body, without attachment, without colour, caste, lineage and name. Page 24, Line 12 O Lord! Thou art Fatherless and Motherless. O Lord! Thou art Casteless. And Lineagless. 148. Page 34, Line 9 He is without colour, mark, caste and lineage. Page 35, Line 11 He Who hath no father, mother caste and lineage. Page 36, Line 3 He who is without caste, lineage, mark and colour. Page 52, Line 12 He is actionless, illusionless, birthless and casteless. Page 53, Line 9 He is without work, without illusion, without birth and without caste. Page 53, Line 14 He is without caste, without line, without form and without colour. Page 54, Line 12 He is without caste, without line, without enemy and without friend. Page 56, Line 8 He is without caste, without line, without friend and without adviser. Page 59, Line 7 Thou art that Ultimate Reality which is without enemy, friend, birth and caste, which is without son, brother, friend and mother. Page 59, Line 9 Which is without caste, line, enemy and friend. Which is without love, home, mark and picture. Page 59, Line 10 Which is without caste, line, enemy and friend. Which is without is without birth, caste, illusion and guise. 4.124. Page 59, Line 11 Which is without action, delusion, caste and lineage. Which is without love, home, father and mother. Page 62, Line 10 He is without caste, without caste, without lineage, without mother and father. He hast Created the Kshatriya warriors under royal canopies on the earth. Page 63, Line 4 He is without caste and lineage, and as Light He is united with all. He is without father, mother, brother and son. Page 65, Line 11 He is without father, mother and caste and He is without lineage, mark and colour. Page 66, Line 11 He hath no body, no home, no caste and no lineage. Page 69, Line 4 He is without caste, lineage, picture, mark and colour.15.175. Page 70, Line 8 He hath no caste, lineage, adviser, friend, enemy and love. Page 71, Line 2 He is without caste, lineage, father, mother, adviser and friend. Page 72, Line 4 He is without caste, birth, death and action and also without the impact of religious rituals. Page 73, Line 5 He is without mark, sign, and colour; He is without caste, linege and guise.9.189. Page 73, Line 12 He is without caste , lineage and story of descent; He is without form, line and colour. Page 85, Line 6 He is without caste, lineage, contrast and illusion, He is without colour, form and special religious discipline.Searched the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib for caste Results 31 - 48 of 48. Search took 0.312 seconds.Page 85, Line 9 What is His Name? and what is His caste? He is without any enemy, friend, son and brother. 8.238. Page 90, Line 12 He is without Yantra (mystical diagram) and caste, without father and mother and presumed as the splash of Perfect beauty. Page 135, Line 2 Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord. Page 135, Line 4 Those who fear the castes and follow their path, abandoning the Supreme Lord. Page 173, Line 14 If Thou castest Thy Merciful glance at me, then Thy Servant shall utter all.3. Page 327, Line 8 Thou art without colour, form, caste and lineage. Page 338, Line 11 Consider Him as casteless in Thy mind, Who is devoid of caste, call Him lineageless who is devoid of lineage. Page 350, Line 11 He is without caste and lineage, without mother and father; He is Unborn and ever perfect. Page 354, Line 8 It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129. Page 404, Line 13 They became Kshatriyas of many junior ccastes. Page 641, Line 2 He caused every caste to do its duties and set in motion Varnashram Dharma; Kshatriyas began to serve the Brahmin and the Vaishyas considered the Kshatriyas as gods.838. Page 1140, Line 1 Castelessness will be the caste and all will forsake the refuge of the Lord.30. Page 1141, Line 7 The whole earth will assume only one caste (of sin) and the trust in religion will be finished; there will be new sects in every home and the people will adopt only misconduct.48. Page 1148, Line 13 All the subjects became hybrid and none of the castes had remained in tact; all of them obtained the wisdom of Shudras and whatever the Lord desires, will happen.115. Page 1230, Line 9 The way, in which all the kings have been described, in the same way, the actions done by all the sages have been narrated as to how Rudra manifested himself in the castes of dvijas (twice born).7. Page 1237, Line 7 Vedas speak of Him as "Neti, Neti" (not this, not this) and that creator is the cause of all cause and unapproachable; He is casteless and without father, mother and servents.97. Page 1312, Line 13 Both are great fighters and archers; both have the same caste and the same mother; Page 1375, Line 11 O Baan ! whose names are Samar, Sandesh, Shatruha and Shatruha and Shatrantak, you are the protector of all the Varnas (castes) and giver of comfort to the saints.237.Bhai Gurdas's Varan: Line 5 ਕਿਸਨੁ ਜਸੋਧਾ ਪਾਲਿਆ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਕੁਲ ਕਵਲ ਸਦਾਈ । kisanu jasodhaa paaliaa vaasadayv kul kaval sadaaee| As the pot of any type containing ghee is not said to be bad, Line 6 ਘਿਅ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਨ ਵਿਚਾਰੀਐ ਭਗਤਾ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਨਾਤਿ ਨ ਕਾਈ । ghia bhaandaa n vichaareeai bhagataa jaati sanaati n kaaee| likewise, the saints also have no high or low caste whatsoever. Line 7 ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥੫॥ charan kaval satigur saranaaee ॥5॥ They all remain in the shelter of the lotus feet of the true Guru.___________________________________________________________________________ ਵਰਨਾ ਵਰਨ ਨ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਕਰਿ ਖੁਦੀ ਖਹੰਦੇ । varanaa varan n bhaavanee kari khudee khahanday| All the vamas (castes) do not love one another and quarrel among themselves in ego; Line 1 ਜੰਗਲ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸੀਂਹ ਦੁਇ ਬਲਵੰਤਿ ਬੁਕੰਦੇ । jangal andari seenh dui balavanti bukanday| if there are two lions in a jungle they roar mightily at each other. Line 2 ਹਾਥੀ ਹਥਿਆਈ ਕਰਨਿ ਮਤਵਾਲੇ ਹੁਇ ਅੜੀ ਅੜੰਦੇ । haadee hadiaaee karani matavaalay hui arhee arhanday| They all are like those intoxicated elephants which stubbornly fight each other. Line 3 ਰਾਜ ਭੂਪ ਰਾਜੇ ਵਡੇ ਮਲ ਦੇਸ ਲੜੰਦੇ । raaj bhoop raajay vaday mal days|arhanday| The mighty kings capture large territories and fight with each other. Line 4 ਮੁਲਕ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਦੁਇ ਜਾਇ ਜੰਗ ਜੁੜੰਦੇ । mulak andari paatisaah dui jaai jang jurhanday| Two emperors in a country will go at war with each another. Line 5 ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਹੰਕਾਰ ਲਖ ਮਲ ਮਲ ਘੁਲਦੇ । haumai kari hankaar|akh mal mal ghuladay| Guided and controlled by ego lacs of wrestlers wrestle with one another. Line 6 ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ ਪੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਨੀ ਸਾਧੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਵਸੰਦੇ ॥੬॥ guru sikh pohi n sakanee saadhu sangi vasanday ॥6॥ But ego cannot touch the Sikhs of the Guru residing in the holy congregation.

Kalam E goya the writings of bhai nand lal goya in english and punjabi http://globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/kal_e-goya.pdf

I looked online, but I couldnt find this song nit nit by xsbass and jagowale. It is on one of the Mixtapes as a extra.

I ran into this Filipino girl at work that had the last named Singh. I asked her a few times, but she kept saying she was more Filipino. the girl had no interest in punjab or sikhi. its watever people choose.

http://www.kanshiradio.com/Archives/2009/1...un09-London.php

There is a need for youth converts that are outside of the faith. Some of the most powerful leaders are usually of non Sikh birth. They adopt it in later life. Seek out people that are naturally leaders and began introducing them to Sikhi.

I agree only half way.....Kirtan Programs are definitely important, but they should have a knowledge of Sikh Theology and clearly able to explain it. I know people that can do great Kirtan, but they just do not understand the message.

I totally agree with you. Its a sad state. I recently got so pssed off at current leadership I deiced to take action myself. Using my knowledge of Sikhi I have began preaching and spreading the message of Sikhi using craigslist. You may laugh but it really works in terms of getting people to the side and reading about sikhi.

What aspect of Sikh History are you seeking to study? I have nearly an endless list of Sikhism books. If their is something specific you are interested in please mention, and I would enjoy helping you pinpoint something you will enjoy learning. Best, Kuthaman

If anyone wants more info on Ravidassia and what exactly it is please PM me. The article I have explains everything about the movement; from origins to rituals.

All religions are prone to sectarian strife. It is human nature, but we can all work together if collaborate on the core of the message.

In the same tone, if your logic applies, the rulers of the times didn't like many sikh gurus and gurus were brutally killed. Was it OK sarpanch ji? Logic that held at that time holds now also. By your logic, they must have disrespected something then too... Did Bhinderwale also disrespect something that he was ridden with bullets...? You call him Shahid and I have no issues with it but don't let your logic be limited at your discretion. By shooting thse saints, these terrorists actually shot at GGS and all religious figures in it. One has to know about saints before commenting about them. These saints had brough GGS in their life. Based on your comments, logic and prejudice, you people are now no different than Taliban or Aurangzeb or Jahangir...and world is realizing it very well now. People like you are really enhancing profile of sikhs worldwide. The truth is you have a lot of theories about Sikhism which for the most part originate from uncerdible sources. Please elaborate what constitutes a Ravidassia. What are the rituals that are involved. What is the place of the SGGS. Please be honest with no Sikh Bashing. Create a new topic that informs Sikhs what exactly is Ravidassia. I have seen bits and pieces of Sant Ramanand and Dera Sachkhand's mission in your posts, but there is no clarity. It is likely that you will respond that we re insulting Ravidassia and we do not have a right to know. Please make it clear once and all what it means to be Ravidassia.

Yeah, I am sure you understand it all.... I am sure a few Sikhs do, but I know you have failed to understand the message of Guru Ravidas. THe offensive you have launched is your way of dealing with the loss of Sant Ramanand. Instead of spreading hate, preach love and brotherhood.

using ravidassi sikh is casteist and in my opinion racist as well. Khalsa knows no creed and there is only one sikh guru in present times, it is guru granth sahib. khatris don't go around yelling gobinda sikh, do they? if one is pure, japs naam, is honest, treats everything equal then there is no discrimination against that person anywhere in sikhs. but certain people who are short on merit but want bigger role play the caste card to get to top. thats how the ravidassi movement was built and is taking a new shape under fake babas. and why are u not following guru gobind singhs hukam by not referring to yourself as Khalsa? did guru gobind singh coined the term ravidassi sikh? even Bhagat Ravidass would have no idea about racists using his name to gain economic advantage over a more deserving person using the short cut of caste. are you amrit chakk by the way? apnepart2, you guys have to accept that Guru Gobind Singh or 10 gurus aren't the only gurus in this world. Also GGS is not a property of a particular religious group. Even the saints you call gurus today were called "fakes" by rulers or public of the their time. Guru Nanak was called "Kurahiya" i.e one who follows wrong path...Was he? They were people like you and me. Now look history has proved otherwise. Guru Gobind Singh was labelled terrorist by moghuls.. Was he? You should have this much common sense to understand that guru gobind singh was not last guru on earth. He may be last for khalsas but not for others and he or any other sikh guru didn't prevent anybody from following GGS. You are not the one you are purporting to be. Shame on you. You are not chamar or amritdhari. Honestly the Sikh notion and Hindu Notion of Guru are highly apart. Since you deny the Guruship of the 10 Sikh Gurus, why are u following the scripture that they penned on command from God? The SGGS belongs to those who follow it and give respect to the Gurus . Ravidassia beliefs do not seem to be defined and seem to take Hindu or Sanatan stands on the scripture. The false truths you attempt to assert are not found in the scripture, but come from other peoples such as Dera Sachkhand Sants. In one of the other posts u said that Gurdwara attendants teach lies. Those people didnt teach me a thing, all my knowledge comes from academic sources, that are well reputed outside Punjab. The statements you make may not have any historical backing. If our management is corrupt the same is possible for Ravidassia Gurdwara management. Investigate your own sources before citing them. If you need a bibliography I will gladly appoint it.

Could you elaborate what did you make this comment about...? Please quote the message you are commenting about...? Please say who are you reporting and about what....? (Based on my assumption what you are upset about... below are my general comments) 5th Guru Gur Arjan Dev Ji, the compiler of GGS was one of the most prominent saints in GGS and his teachings are most simple in language to understand. I don't think so I would have said anything untoward about him. How could I when I respect him..? But the point to be made is that Saints (like the ones sikh terrorists killed recently) in any age are always persecuted. People don't like their message of peace and love. Jahangir in the time of Guru Arjan dev wanted to stop the message that Guru Arjun dev was spreading and had vowed to shut this "Jhoot Ki Dukkan". This is what he used to call guru's message. As you and I know what is the truth now. Jahangir and many others are gone while Guru Arjun Dev still lives on. Sant Rama Nand was one of the most scholarly about Guru Arjan Dev Ji's bani. So rather than getting all wound up about trivial issues, try to get the point through your head and not deviate from discussion. Saints, pirs, fakirs have not stopped coming to this world. The terminology u used was derogatory and offensive. The hate you have for people is no different than the Khalistanis. If you instead reach with love and care, you can bring an end to such systems. Otherwise you are only reinforcing the status quo.

There just ruins without true devotion inside. I would not boil your blood over it.

Thats really funny........

Guru Nanak was definitely born into a time when Islam was strong, but the story that best demonstrates his rejection of Islam when he was invited to prayer by Sultanpur Lodhi. LOdhi and the Qazi began to do all the rituals, and Guru Nanak just stood there. At the end they began quizzing Guru Nanak, he just laughed and replied that they were lost in thoughts about life and were just practicing empty ritual. Guru Nanak just laughed at their foolishness. Another famous story to rejecting the Islamic influence is where Mecca moved all over because of Guru Nanak's feet. Baba Farid's descendant Shaikh Brahm, the one gave Guru Nanak Baba Farid's hymns was a devout follower of Guru Nanak. His devotion to Guru Nanak was unmatched. The hymns represent a theme that the divine spark is not limited to one religion. If Baba Farid's hymns are important Muslims why have they lost the ability to recite them. Pak Pattan the holy place of Baba Farid, the hymns are not sung at all. Only Sikhs have retained the ability to recite them. A Scripture is what makes a community and it speaks the beliefs. The 99th page of Sri Dasam Granth Ji states ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਮਾਂਝ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਸਮੈ ਆਪਨੀ ਆਪਨੀ ਅੰਤ ਮੂਏ ॥੨੭॥ महादीन केते प्रिथी मांझ हूए ॥ समै आपनी आपनी अंत मूए ॥२७॥ Many Muhammads had been on the earth. They were born and then died in their own times. 27. ਜਿਤੇ ਅਉਲੀਆ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤਾ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ ॥ जिते अउलीआ अमबीआ होइ बीते ॥ तितिओ काल जीता न ते काल जीते ॥ All the Prophets and saints of the past were conquered by Death (KAL), but none could conquer it (him). Islam is "strict monotheism" from what the say, but it can also be called a cult of the prophet. The Shahada the statement of faith includes Muhammad at the end. A strict rejection of the divinity of the prophet is a clear rejection of Islamic orthodoxy. Best, kuthaman

The Truth is that the Gold was laid by Maharaja Ranjit Singh in the 1800's. The true Darbar Sahib, built by the Gurus was not plated in Gold. I really think it is odd they are building it in Amritsar. There must be a way we can file a court in junction to stop the construction. its an insult our Gurus and Sikhs from the past that have died fighting for it.