gurdssingh

The titles misleading it's not Amritsar, that's filmed in Nawanshahr. Very nice Punjabi wedding film.

Intresting read. Post# 17 in the link refering to alcohol and drinking to much strong liqour. Didn't Honigberger distill brandy for mh. Ranjit Singh?

If you not seen this programme check it out on 4OD. I just seen footage of a solider murdering at point blank range naked handcuffed man in the back of the head. A tamil tiger news broadcaster raped and murdered. This is dispicable but also footage of a 12 year old son of LTTE leader, arrested, interegated and then executed. C4 have had the footage verified also. OMG! it's like what happened in Punjab

BBC AN love to debates on current affairs or previous days TV programs. Maybe we should text, e-mail and phone them ASAP to have tommorows debate on a TV programme I'm watching now. It's on C4+1 so it started on channel 4 at 22:55. It's titled "Sri Lanka's killing fields". I've lived in London there have been many Tamil protests even at Westminister, don't know if they were covered in the debate at 13:00 on BBC AN. But lets ask Nihal to cover this issue tommorow.

You are most probably right, doing a google search it seems so. But thats distt. wise not the actual town/city. But still it seems majority muslim. I was just stating what my pops told me by speaking to the residents who were there prior 47, We all know the mass populace was not highly educated or had access to motor cars/bikes and so did not see the whole picture of the town in those days so they just told their story, of what they saw. If a young person in 1947 saw in his mohalla majority Sikhs as it would have been maybe he thought the whole town was like that.

Most gels and sprays make your hair feel really hard. No in fact they all do. Maybe try tying your beard and using like hair putty or wax and tying a 'tha-tee' (cloth round your chin and tied the top of your head), to set it. Majority of putties and wax don't flake (show those white bits like gel after a bit, or if touched), and there better for your hair than gel, mousse or spray which make hair very hard and make it fall out. BTW 'simco' fixo turns your beard yellowey. It's ok when your hair is black but when you grow older and you grey it does. As I've spoken to alot of elders about this. Also another tip is mix the fixo with baby oil or mustard oil (saronah da til), it makes your beard hair less hard.but you can still set it.

That's very good idea. Lot of people born in the west find it much easier to understand something said in English rather than Punjabi. That would be a big help to alot of us.

Can't 100% gaurantee this but I have read articles. Basically after partition many Sikhs found themselves to be the only Sikh family around for kilometers. So after peace pervailed the local muslims tried to convert the 'kafirs'. Many were forced to convert or lose the whole families lives. This is what I heard first hand from a family member who went on yatra to Pakistan. A sikh family in Nanakana Sahib broke all ties with his sisters family as they had converted to Islam decades ago.

We should never forget history, but maybe dwell less upon the negatives and emphasis the positives. Like there were many people of the opposing faiths who did help their friends and as the case with most pindus they were almost like extended family. Also my grandads both told me of the help they provided and they recieved after partition. My paternal side has always been in Doaba (Nawanshahr / S.B.S.N). When the bharley (outsiders) came as they were refered too my Baba's family took in a family (not like of 4 or 5, but a whole family elders (thaiye, chachey), there kids and daughter-in-laws and kids also) for around 7 or 8 months till they had all of the stuff sorted out from the govt. My nanas side there were 3 brothers whose ancestors were originally from Doaba. Moved during the 1880's or early 1890's to the canal colnies near Montgomery present day Sahiwal. Anyways my nanas grandad was in the army and for his service he was awarded the option of huge amounts of land in the new colonies which were prior too reclaimation deserts or marshland at very favourable rates (as my nana told). Anyway after they proved there credentials the new govt. awarded them land in Nawanshahr dist. They were fortunate to have origanally been from the area and so stayed with extended family for months. My nana had very fond memories of his childhood and early adult life. He loved it where he was bought up. He said he had many Hindu and Muslim friends who were like proper family. Many bad things happend during partiton, but after the human side came out and people welcomed people they didn't know or were'nt related to and made them family for the short period they were together. It something we can learn from. I mean today you hear of brothers not helping each other. If one is in Punjab and the other abroad they try to steal the others inheritance, by putting all the land into their name. Or some who struggle by farming their brother charges them 'theka' rent for the land which is his share. My grandad's are dead but I'm lucky to have spoken with them extensively about their background and their lives. It's something to pass onto my kids. Alot of people from the 1947 era are getting old now, so like another member started a thread about we should engage with them and hear their stories and preserve our history.

We all need to be honest and acknowledge the fact atrocities were comitted by all communites during partition. No single community came out as angels. It was <banned word filter activated> for tat. maybe I m baised but I 've read many accounts that it was the muslims who stroke first and as the Sikhs had already organised themselves into jathas they were prepaired for retribution. I mean who wouldn't? It's all very easy living the lifes we do today saying 'no we should hold the moral ground etc etc'. But no one knows what they would do when faced with the situation. If your community had been attacked, murdered, raped etc. would your blood not boil and seek revenge? We don't know how someone will react until faced with a situation. Like this is a stupid example but just look at New Orleans during Katrina, America one of the worlds most civilised countries, during unprecendented circumstances society broke down and all hell broke lose during the aftermath. I know people go on about Guru Ji's bachan, regarding Malerkotla but I think it was directed towards the Nawabs family not the whole populace (maybe i'm wrong). But I would say Sikhs are more compasionate and understanding as It's intresting to note Malerkotla is the only city in Punjab in which the majority of the residents faith is the minority faith in the whole state or province (Pak). I.e majority muslims in this city, only city in Punjab State. In Pakistan the Province of Punjab there is no single city or town with a sikh or Hindu majority. Even where our holy shrines are located, the cities are dominated by Muslims. Sri Nanakana Sahib should have had a Sikh majority as was the case but it doesn't. Same with other places such as town of Hassan Abdul (where Sri Panja Sahib is). Punjabs Muslims prior to 1947 did and most probably to a lesser extent today held Baba Nanak in high esteem but they still drove out most of the Sikhs from the places we hold close to our hearts.

This thread is a joke.

WSL don't be so harsh, as Sikhs we see it as a Ghullughara/ Genocide or ethnic cleansing. However majority of the world sees it as just that, anti-Sikh riots so it's possible that what op's tutor may say to him. No offense WSL, but you have to see it like a non-Sikh and detach emotionally. International community was hoodwinked into thinking it was just a minority of Sikhs affected. I mean all India has to show is people climing to be Sikh (Brar / KP S Gill), were instumental in the attrocities. Instead of criticising lets help the brother. Neverforget84.com has lots of info from this tragic era. Good look with your project, maybe you could post a draft in which we could help by proof reading and give suggestions. Personally I think alot of guys would read the draft and provide suggestions. Thats like a students dream to have input from others on a project.

Koh-i-noor no longer exists in the form it was taken from Punjab by the British. Also others also have as much claim to it as us, including the British. Why? Well because it was taken by force from many, originated in South India the mughals got it. Nadir Shah took it from Delhi, After his assaination his general Abdali got hold of it. It was Abdali's grandsons wife who promised it to Maharaja Ranjit Singh in lieu of payment for his help for resucing her husband from prison. It was gifted to Punjab by coersion as was the case with the handing over to the British.

Hate to think but logically thinking all written irreplacable manuscripts esp. of our Gurus were most probably destroyed to add insult to injury. Other valuables, who knows some senior ministers / army staff maybe made some cash by selling?

You quoted me when you replied. So just relating to your qoute in bold.'even sided with musalmaans'. I was just putting into context that muslims fighting with Sikhs is nothing new or bad. . .

Ummh I think you have taken my post the wrong way, why do you tend to come across as obnoxious in some of your posts? They didn't want Ranjit Singh to rule as he was also a misl sardar and annexed their territories. EDIT Also i don't know of misl leaders collabarating with muslims to prevent Maharaja Ranjit Singh expanding his empire. The misl sardars esp. from malwa area did with the British though.

Also have'nt many priceless items also gone missing. I think one item was something which can't have a financial value attached to it as it's priceless / can't be valued, donated by maharaja Ranjit Singh to Harmandir Sahib whcih was gifted to him by the Nizam of Hydrabad? Amongst other priceless artefacts and irreplacable transcripts, which are valued even more as they were written by our Gurus and other great Sikh personalities.

Hi Garch, Sorry for late reply, got your PM (been busy at work), anyway the image is at http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/63455-picturespotraits-of-guru-sahibs/, post number 2, (2nd oct 2011 12.11pm uk time), the post is by ishvtan.

Hari Singh Nalwa was not a misl sardar, he was a great general of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's Sarkar-e-Khalsa / Lahore Darbar. Jassa Singh Ramgharia was a misl sardar. I have posted this before but just a quick history. He was a tarkhan and hence tarkhans and other artisans class themselves as ramgharia. Ramghaira refers to Jassa Singh Ramgharias residence in Amritsar. His fort was known a Ram Ghar hence he was known as Ramgharia. Jassa Singh was a great Misl Sardar. Ramgarhia bungas are at sachkand Sri Harmandir Sahib to this day. Another great was Kapur Singh later known as Nawab Kapur Singh after being granted a jagir form the Punjab Sarkar (Mughals) leader of the Misls and suceeded by his adopted son Jassa Singh Aulhwalia the next leader of all the misls. Also Aulhwalia's use the name Aulhwalia as they were Kalal's (brewers), as they were from same baradhari they adopted the surname Aulhwalia, refers to Jassa Singh's native village 'Aulh'. All in all there were 12 or some don't class one so 11 misls. They were Sikhs, but it wasn't about just Sikhi to some as they also wanted to amase fortunes and did corrupt things, i.e money, women, intoxicants. Kop Singh mussalmans were part of the Khalsa army. Even in Guru Hargobind Rai Jis army there were muslims. One famous story is of Painda Khan, he was a pathan mercenary who fought alomg side Guru ji but then did the dirty on him and switched forces to get more money from mughals, he was slian by guru ji. But loads of muslims have fought along side Khalsa army. Maharaja Ranjit Singh's army was known as Khalsa Army but as Sikhs were small minority in Punjab, it had many Hindu and Muslim soldiers. Who were very loyal. Muslims occupied gret posts in the darbar like foreign minister Fakir Azizuddin very great loyal family (brother included), unlike dogras. also general of the rtillery was muslim, as was much of this regiment. You have to remember majority of punjab was muslim. As if you look at sanjha punjab it is more muslims than Sikhs and hindus combined. Off top of my head only misl who have history of siding with the enemy i.e. Afghan invaders were the Phulkian misl. I.e ancestors of Captian Amrinder singh of Patiala. (From Ala Singhs Pati comes the term Patiala). Any way there is bachan form Satguru Hargodind Rai Ji that the ancestors of Phul would rule mass areas which they did. Unfortunetly they were against Sikhs on occasions like SahibSingh of Patiala etc. Just read a few books on the period and you will get good knowldege. Not all muslims were bad, they fought Sikh cause. Not all Sikhs were good, they went against Sikh cause to fill their pockets.

Weren't some of the original misl leaders that?

Why does alot of people on this site think loads of UK Sikhs girls convert to Islam. My friends in Kannedha and AMerika its not at all like that, yes it happans but its like a tiny smidge. Like a handful of cases anyone disagree please oh please tell me where this large scale conversion is happening which town? NO it's a few here and there. EDIT Also why you guys thinks Sikhs get bullied and done over by blacks, whites or pakistanis? MAte i never ever seen other communities ruuning apne, like where again is it happening?

Sikhi is a journey, some have a head start they know nothing but the sikh lifestyle from birth, some get on a fast track turbo charged course. Some find it of their own accord others it is introduced to or forced upon. Others adopt it slowly. Every one has their own pace. Just read Sikh history. Many great Sikh personalities were not always Sikh, but turned out great Sikhs. Included Guru Amar Das JI, who in senior years by hearing shabads turned to Sikhi and became the third Guru, this after living the majority of his life a vishnavite hindu going on pilgramage to hardiwar yearly.

Scooter, Your first post you mention smartness etc. Well buddy I think majority of amritdharis / keshdharis look smarter than majority of people in general population in UK who cut kesh, as amritdharis / keshdharis will shower, look clean, act appropritely more so than indeginous western people. Secondly taking amrit is not a bragging right or something to show off, Panj Pyare tell you the rehat, after taking amrit you should follow it to the letter. If trying to wake up, missing amritvela, doing nitnem in a hurry. WHY? You should have practiced and lived the lifestyle only took amrit when you knew can fulfil the duties. Yes you comment on my weaknesses, well you had kesh and by giving examples of bollywood movies Salman kahn, john abraham people waant to look like that and say you cut your kesh. Mate, only commit to something when you know you can fulfil the duty. Well you may try and convince yourself atleast im trying, well good job, but you can do the exact same as you are and then take amrit when you know you can fulfill the duties of an amritdhari. Otherwise you are just breaking your amrit. Not prescribing to the rehat panj pyare gave you = breaking amrit. Would you not eat or drink for a day? Or only eat a proportion of your food? Not looking for flaws in genral but only those who are imbecable have the right to judge, otherwise there are always rebuttals, even though very weak. End of the day yes Singhs / kaurs big up for following Sikhi in 21st century western society it's not easy but please don't think your better as majority of people have flaws however trivial. I know my posts are nit picking but just proving most people don't follow sikhi to the letter.

Fateh, Can you please provide pics or a link of the work as I would buy. I seen one picture on the net don't know what the art form is called but its when you write something in different shades to make a picture, anyway it's Japji Sahib in a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, I would commison or like to see other work for sale. Thanx.

'n after cutting hair they claim there sikhs!!! <banned word filter activated> !!' - Why are you so special to judge? It's better to be as good a human being as possible and follow Sikhi, to the best as you can with a TRUE heart, because you want too. Most people who TRY to follow Sikhi and cut hair etc. do it off their own back, because they want too. I know personally of many Keshdhari and amritdhari's who hve NO choice. They look the part but have no sharda, if they were allowed too they would cut their hair. But as they were born in to religion they have not much choice and are scared of family. This scenario may only apply to a small tiny minority, but it is true. I know of a few amritdharis (my dad included), who had to have surgery (like life saving) e.g. heart attack, removing tumor. They needed to shave some hair to operate. I have nothing against it as most people in todays world would do the same. You would just pesh after. It's not like you wanted to but you wanted to live a little longer. I know for a fact only a handful of amritdharis would say no I m not going to operate as I will have to cut kesh. Its because they have family and responsibilties. Also if you are knocked out and go for emergency treatment the doctors will do it without your consent as they know no better. So you CAN NOT compare shaheeds form centuries ago to todays Sikhs. As they would have given their life rther than remove kesh. Well thats an extreme example as most on here are young and unless happened to family member you will think 'NO waay I would never cut my kesh for a LIFE SAVING operation. But for a lot you may have travelled abroad. Guru ji said kakkars should never be taken off, they are your angs. So why do some who have taken amrit will be so careful when showering etc. Be okay when it comes to flying? Just because Akal Takht have bent the rules to accomodate modern living, its still going against the hukam of dashmeh pita. Under no circumstances can you take kakkars off, but flying umh okey. Law of the land is greater than rehat right. Justify it how you want you can't. There is no complusion to fly or go abroad. Im not trying to justify cutting my kesh, but just showing only a few follow rehat to the letter. In one way or another Im guessing majority off people have not follwed rehat prescribed by our gurus. E.g amritvela (Like how many have kept nitnem of all banis everyday since amrit), Dasvand etc. Basically im trying to say only Waheguru can judge, what gives other people who themselves have flaws (albiet to a lesser extent), the right to judge?