BhForce

Nature magazine says number of species in the world is about 8.7 million. Gurbani speaks of ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਜੂਨ (8.4 million species). This is remarkably close. ਚਵਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਭ ਹੂ ਕਉ ਤਦ ਕਾ ॥ "Thou have created eighty-four lacs of species and given to them all sustenance since that very time." p1403 Note: The word joni is used. It seems quite clear that joni refers to lifeforms and not life stages (unlike what the missionaries think). Just to make it even more clear: Kabeer ji writes: ਬਇਆਲੀਸ ਲਖ ਜੀ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਤੇ ਬੀਠਲੁ ਭੈਲਾ ਕਾਇ ਕਰਉ ॥੧॥ "Forty-two lacs of beings are in water. How can I bathe the Pervading Lord therein O brother." p485 So how is it that jooni is supposed to mean life phase or stage of life? The missionaries trying to convince you that "jooni" means stage of life is as if you went to the electronics store to buy a television and the salesman tried to sell you binoculars because you can also see (vision) far (tele) with a binocular. It's just such a stretch.

The problem is that these theories promoted by the "missionaries" is that they (missionaries) don't go through Gurbani looking for what it says. Rather, they first have made up their mind that they don't want to accept reincarnation, and then blindly misinterpret every relevant Gurbani verse. Secondly, I'll admit there are verses that could be interpreted either way, but the problem (for them) is there are verses that simply don't fit in an anti-reincarnation theory without really stretching the meanings. The plain meanings fit a reincarnation approach. Saying that everything is a metaphor is a copout. You can see this right in Nitnem: ਜੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਪਾਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਰ ਥੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਜਾਏ ॥ ਅਨੇਕ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਆਵੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ (Anand Sahib, 22) If anyone turns his back on the Satguru, he won't find Mukti. He won't find Mukti even if he goes asking wisemen. He will wander through countless lives (jooni), he won't find Mukti without the Satguru. The missionaries want you to believe jooni means phases. The plain meaning is simply life. Dictionary definition: ਜੂਨੀ ਸਰੋਤ : ਗੁਰੁਸ਼ਬਦ ਰਤਨਾਕਾਰ ਮਹਾਨ ਕੋਸ਼, ਪਬਲੀਕੇਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਊਰੋ, ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਯੂਨੀਵਰਸਿਟੀ, ਪਟਿਆਲਾ। ਜੂਨੀ ਦੇਖੋ, ਯੋਨਿ. ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਉਤਪੱਤਿ ਦਾ ਸਥਾਨ. ਆਕਰ. ਜਨਮ. ਭਗ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਅਜੂਨੀ. The word jooni is related to joni or yoni (which means birth canal or the starting point of a lifetime). The reason jooni couldn't mean phase is that it's related to yoni. Meaning that Gurbani is evoking the sense of a real birth, not just a phase of life.

True. But, someone who is in the above categories will not volunteer to be a member of the Panj Piyare. Generally, non-practicing Sikhs know they're doing wrong and do not generally object to those who are living in the Rehit. Also, generally, Rehitvan Sikhs don't care that non-practicing Sikhs drink alcohol, cut their hair or whatever. It's just that they would object if someone tried to change the fundamentals of Sikhism.

This is kind of weird wording. "Indian religions" will celebrate "Guru Nanak Dev ji's birthday"? This wording must have been provided a Gurdwara committee. If it were just the Government, they probably would have just said "Guru Nanak's birthday". I mean, do you think a Government would add PBUH after Mohammed? So, given as the wording was probably provided by a Sikh, why would they say "Indian religions"? I fully realize many non-Sikhs are shardaloos of Guru ji. But not the entire religions themselves.

Oh, so you're saying that the UK Govt website quoted above does not reflect the actual law?

The first lesson regarding charity that a Sikh must learn is from the first Bani, Jap ji: ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ॥ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ॥ ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ॥ Pilgrimage, penance, compassion and charity, bring only a sesame (tiny amount) of honour (merit), if any. Whoever heartily hears, believes and loves in his mind, obtains salvation by thoroughly bathing in the shrine within himself. So, the first thing to know about charity is that no charity is above having love for God in your heart via Gurbani. Charity is useless without Gurbani. Therefore you need to sing Gurbani every day with love. Once you do that, you can give donations. If you're asking about specific charities, I would recommend asking family in Punjab and giving money to specific individuals (such as a poor Sikh whose ceiling fell in due to rain). I would recommend giving to Sikhs, not to United Way and other general charities. Those get plenty of money from Western governments and corporations, meanwhile some of our people are starving or in debt.

Gurbani states that a Sikh must follow Guru's command, not just chant: ਸੇਵਕ ਸਿਖ ਪੂਜਣ ਸਭਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਸਭਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਊਤਮ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ ਗਾਵਿਆ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਰਿ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਵੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ All the Sikhs and servant come to worship Thee, O Lord, and all of them sing the Lord God's sublime Gurbani. God approves the singing and hearing of those who accept the True Guru's command as perfectly true. p669 Gurbani also records that Sikhs are to follow even mundane commands of Guru ji, like sitting or standing up: ਸਾਕਤ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੇ ॥ ਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਉਠਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਘੁਸਰਿ ਬਗੁਲਾਰੇ ॥ The mammon-worshippers go and bow to the Guru but their mind is base and filled with utter falsehood. When the Guru says 'Rise, My brethren', they cram and sit like cranes. p312 This should be sufficient to show that the commands of Guru are to be followed.

Thanks for mentioning this, bro. A Sikh who eats Halal meat becomes patit (fallen). Under no circumstances should a Sikh eat any type of meat from a restaurant. I realize the Nihang Maryada of Jhatka, and I am not talking about that. Even if you know (or you think you know) that a given restaurant's meat isn't Halal, there is still no excuse for eating meat from there because eating a Big Mac burger is not Kshatri Maryada.

You're totally right, though some people on this forum disagree. There are three things about non-practicing Sikhs: 1. They will almost never mind if it's evening time and you say that you'd like to do Rehras. It's not like you're asking to do Namaz. 2. They will generally be OK with giving their kids over to go to Khalsa School or Sikhi school at the Gurdwara on Sundays. 3. When and if they're ready to be religious, it's Gurbani they will turn to, not the Koran or Bible, etc. The #1 source for new Amritdharis is former non-practicing Sikhs.

Did you read it, bro, or are you just referencing an article someone wrote? If you read it, could you provide a book, chapter, and page number so we could know as well?

Their number one task seems to be to break Sikhs off from going to Sants. If someone finds Sikhi through the preaching of the Sants, let it be.

Even their support of Sikh political aims is somewhat questionable sometimes. After all, the exposition of Sikh political claims is found in Granths (Dasam Granth, Gurbilas, Panth Prakash, etc.) that they do not accept. In English, missionary refers to people going around preaching (Christianity). In their minds, the Sikh missionaries think they're on a mission to preach Sikhism. The next question is: How to get non-Sikhs to believe in Sikhism? Answer: Present logical, rational reasons for Sikhism. This explains the Missionary obsession with rationality.

There are two Missionary headquarters in Ludhiana: One is the Sikh Missionary College, Ludhiana in Field Ganj area. They are "moderate" missionaries (well, relatively). A lot of Sikhs had appreciated some of their earlier work in the form of pamphlets and Sikh Phulwari magazine. The other is the Gurmat Gian Missionary College in Jawaddi village, Ludhiana. This might be the one the poster is referring to, but I'm not sure. Anyway, the Gurmat Gian people are the more radical of the two. Sarbjit Singh Dhunda was affiliated with them.

Thanks for posting that. It's a hilarious portrayal of Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj offering to give Raaj to the Sikhs and the Sikhs stupidly fighting among themselves for little pieces of Punjab as opposed to the North, South, West and East that Guru ji was offering them. What's changed? (Note: the hilarity was the Sikhs' stupidity and small-mindedness.)

It is sad to see our people having to leave a place they had been living in for centuries. That was, ultimately, a result of US meddling. As far as a "completely different religious and cultural country", why isn't that the US or UK? They're completely different from the Punjab, too. It does go to show that we all need to know how to read, write and speak Punjabi. For the next generation of Sikhs in Mexico if they don't know English and you don't know Spanish, how will you communicate? Obviously, Punjabi!

The Muslims, under Uthman, gathered all the variants of the Koran and burned them. That's the only reason there's "one" Koran now.

What? Really? That's the exact thing the (more radical) missionaries are saying these days! And Sant Dhadrianwale, too. So, basically, the missionaries are doing nothing more than spouting Radha Swami talking points. So much for being their claims of trying to save authentic Sikhi from the Sants.

"Used to"? If Guru ji did something one time to show the Sikhs something, that does not mean habitual use, as in "used to".

I don't think this is a matter of religion. The Kirpan is a weapon. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a weapon on a college campus. The fault here lies with whoever called the police and also the police for trying to arrest someone who is otherwise peaceful but just happens to be armed. It's also the fault of North Carolina for not legalizing open carry if it's not already legal. You don't even need to have any license whatsoever to carry a gun in half the states. So what's the problem?

It's hard to understand your whole tale, but there's a reason many Sikhs feel employment is slavery. Wherever you work, try to save up money and become financially independent. Perhaps open your own business. A Sikh (or any man) can never truly be free working for someone else.

The recommended schedule for Sikhs is to go sleep saying God's name and wake up doing the same: ਸਉਦੇ ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਉਚਰਹਿ ਉਠਦੇ ਭੀ ਵਾਹੁ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥ saudē vāh vāh ucharah uthadē bhī vāh karēn . Whilst going to sleep they utter Lord's glories and praises and when awake they eulogise Him as well. ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਜਿ ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਸੰਮਾਲੇਨਿ ॥੧॥ nānak tē mukh ujalē j nit uth sanmālēn .1. Nanak bright are the faces of those who daily arise early and remember God. p312 You have to sleep the same number of hours anyway. So why not go to sleep early and wake up early? Afterwards, you'll still have the same number of hours to study--there are only 24 hours in a day. If you say it's the same if you do Amrit Vela first and then go to sleep, it's not: If you do it your way, after you wake up, you won't be worshipping, as commanded above. Instead, you'll head to school or whatever. We're supposed to worship after waking: ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ gur satigur kā jō sikh akhāē s bhalakē uth har nām dhiāvai . He, who calls himself a Sikh of the Great True Guru, should rise early and meditate on God's Name. p305 Meditate after you rise, Gurbani says.

Two more things I'd like to mention: It is not prohibited to work with or support kings for certain purposes. Our Gurus did this, for example Guru Gobind Singh ji with Bahadur Shah. Secondly, some (not all) of the people who think they're hot stuff because they are opposing a monarch are the very same ones who will suck up to a President, a Prime Minister, or some pop singer. So they are hardly principled republicans or egalitarians.

One thing I'll praise the Firangis for is, they do respect and adore their sovereign. The question for us fools is how much we respect and adore our sovereign, King of the Sachi Sarkar (true government), Guru Granth Sahib ji? ਖੰਭ ਵਿਕਾਂਦੜੇ ਜੇ ਲਹਾਂ ਘਿੰਨਾ ਸਾਵੀ ਤੋਲਿ ॥ If I could find the wings on sale, I would buy them for an equal weight of my flesh. ਤੰਨਿ ਜੜਾਂਈ ਆਪਣੈ ਲਹਾਂ ਸੁ ਸਜਣੁ ਟੋਲਿ ॥੨੧॥ Them, I would attach to my body and search for and find that Friend of mine. ਸਜਣੁ ਸਚਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾਂ ਦੈ ਸਾਹੁ ॥ The Friend is the True Monarch. He is the King over the heads of Kings. ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਸਿ ਬਹਿਠਿਆ ਸੋਹੀਐ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥੨੨॥ Sitting by whose side one looks beauteous and who is the support of all. p1425 The code of conduct in a Darbar (court) of Guru ji is as that of a worldly king. Yet we see Sikhs chatting away, utterly disrespecting our Guru. If Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Jagat Guru and the King of Kings, as the Sikhs claim, then why don't they accord Guru ji the commensurate respect?

Gurbani warns against the idea of idolizing Kings: ਏਹਿ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਰਾਜੇ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥ These Lords of earth are not called kings. Through love of other than God, they come to grief. ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿਆ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਜਾਦੇ ਬਿਲਮ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ Why should man praise the created beings, who make no delay in departing? ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਸਚਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਸੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥ Eternal is the True Lord alone. He who understands Him through the Guru, become eternal as well. p1088

It depends on what you're asking. The recommended lifestyle is to go to sleep when dark, wake up early, do Ishnan, do Amrit Vela, and stay awake the rest of the day. If you can't do that (because of job schedules), then you simply have to make do. When you stay up, you don't generally do Ishnaan, you don't get the same feeling of getting up to worship. Again, remembering God is always a good thing, never a bad thing. The point is simply that following the recommended lifestyle has benefits.