SikhKosh

According to Bhai Santokh Singh the Sikhs once asked a question to Guru Gobind Singh: ‘the Turks routinely rape women of Hind. Sikhs would be doing well to avenge this. Why does the Guru’s code prohibit molestation of women? Then, at that time, the True Guru spoke thus; I want the panth to scale (new moral) heights. I will not condemn it to depths of degradation.’

Logical fallacy: argumentum ad auctoritatem.

Aren't you the same Chatanga who makes huge posts about saving Gurdwaras in Pak and saving old manuscripts but when it comes to action you run away with your tail between your legs?

The call to rename Aurangzeb Road actually came from a Pakistan born Tarek Fatah (Muslim background) who thought it was absurd to name a road in India after a tyrant and fanatic. He suggested the road to be renamed after Dara Shikoh (Auranga's brothers). When APJ Abdul Kalam died, the BJP got the road renamed after Kalam.

In the last few years we have seen a surge in the amount of Sanatanis or Hindu Sikhs. Before this was limited in India due to RSS and other Hindutva propaganda but it has spread to the west to the Sikh youth, especially in the UK. After Guru Gobind Singhs Joti Jot there was a turbulent time with several wars, massacres and Sikhs had to hide in jungles. Sikhi was in tact till the mid of the 18th century, after which Udasi/Hindu influences crept into mainstream Sikhi due to their role as caretakers of Gurdwaras (they were even responsible for the management of Kesgarh and Nanded). The history dated between 1750 - 1850, a period which saw Sikhi being almost being swallowed into the larger Hindu fold is often used by Sanatani 'Sikhs' and some Hindus to categorize us as Hindus. This is just a concise post with some historical references to counter these Sanatanis. Dabistan e Mazaheb written by Zulfikar Ardistani (also attributed to Mohsin Fani) in the 17th century provides the fact that Sikhs back then did not worship idols, they did not venerate Sanskrit, the Mandirs or recite Hindu Mantras. Sikhan Di Bhagat Mala (early 18th century) attributed to Bhai Mani Singh, when recounting the Sakhi of Bhai Jodh and Bhai Dhesi's conversion (Sikhs of 5th Guru) tells us that they stopped worshipping the Ganga river, Kashi, fasting on Ekadashi and discarded Sanskrit. Instead they read Bani in Gurmukhi. I got some more historical sources, Waheguru willing I will write a complete article one day.

Just note for Sangrur, Muslims are up from 7.89 % in 2001 to 10.82% in 2011. This is the area that includes Malerkotla and has become the hub of the likes of Izhar Alam who are converting Sikhs to Islam and facilitating Gujjar Muslim immigration into Punjab by building them colonies and Sharia Panchayats.

We should not only look at the decline of Sikh population [which is not only effected by emigration but also conversion to other religions notably Christianity and Islam to a smaller extent] but also the proportional growth of other religions. It is in that regard that we have to look at the unprecedented Muslim growth which will definitely cause problems in the future. Tarn Taran still remains our stronghold with over 93% Sikhs. While Jalandhar seems to be the district with the least Sikhs at just 32%.

Balkar, you clearly compared the Gurus or Bhagats to 'Poets' because you tried to compare their thinking process. That was wrong.

First of all, you make the mistake of treating Bani as simple poetry. Bhagat Kabeer says in Gauri Raag of Guru Granth Sahib: ਲੋਗੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਇਹੁ ਗੀਤੁ ਹੈ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥ People believe that this - Bani - is just a song, but it is Brahm Beechar Guru Nanak Sahibs following tuks in Maajh Raag of Guru Granth Sahib clarify that God himself ordered Guru Ji to start their mission: ਹਉ ਢਾਢੀ ਵੇਕਾਰੁ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਹੈ ਕੈ ਵਾਰ ਧੁਰਹੁ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ॥ I was a minstrel, out of work, when the Lord took me into His service. To sing His Praises day and night, He gave me His Order, right from the start. In case you have doubts about the Divine Origin of Gurbani: ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥ O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (Raag Gauri, Guru Granth Sahib) ਧੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਆਈ ॥ The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord. (Raag Sorath, Guru Granth Sahib) ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo. (Raag Tilang, Guru Granth Sahib) ਹਉ ਆਪਹੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਮੈ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਹੁਕਮਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥ By myself, I do not even know how to speak; I speak all that the Lord commands. (Raag Suhi, Guru Granth Sahib)

You have no knowledge of Gurmat or history that is why you can't post a single historical proof in your favor and instead resort to name calling. Anyways, sensible readers can take note of my quotations and make up their mind. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

A Gursikh may remove his [body] hair with scissors if he is a Sahaj-dhari, but he must leave his facial hair untouched. [Do not touch the face] because that is what people see [and that is how a man is recognised as a Sikh]. (Rehatnama Chaupa Singh) A Kes-dhari Gursikh should never remove his body hair and [both Kes-dhari and Sahaj-dhari] should leave their pubic hair untouched if living as family men (grahst). Do not let [your hair] remain filthy. (Rehatnama Chaupa Singh) [The Guru] decreed, bearing his specific imprint: "It is excellent for you who are Sahajdhari Sikhs to maintain the appearance of Kesdharis. If that is not possible you should [at least] keep at an acceptable length. Should a Kesdhari do this, however, he is not a Sikh. (Bhagat Ratnavli)

Stop being a fool and read what I write. Those sources I mentioned state sahajdharis are not bound by the Kesh rehat. The Sikh Rehat Maryada is not accepted by many Panthic groups, Bhindranwaley walked out and so did many other Panthic GurSikhs. Just like Panth added a Fifth Takht in the 1960s we, as a Panth, are allowed to amend the wrong definition of Sahajdhari in the present SRM.

Read Bhagat Ratnavli (1721), Rehatnama Chaupa Singh (1764) and dozens of Persian and English sources like the Ibratnama, Sketch of Sikhs all dating from the 19th century for the existence of sahajdharis (who did not keep kesh).

Whole Panth? Don't think so. Read some history. 'Keshdhari' is a recent phenomena, this was looked down upon in the past (i.e. being ready for Amrit physically but not taking as is stated in the Rehatnama Daya Singh for example). The only division in panth was Keshdhari and Sahajdhari (as noted in Rehatnama Chaupa Singh), let me quote an example from the Rehatnama: "In the early morning the Gursikh, whether Kes-dhari or Sahaj-dhari, should bathe or [at least] perform the five ablutions. Let him then recite Japjifive times..." Please note that I do not deny that our historical sources are not infallible but a general reading of them all helps us to construct a view on several key issues. If we discard every source out there because it contains 'blasphemous' statements we will have no way to write our history or Rehat as it is based on our past written sources.

The so called Rehats you refer to from 1925 and the Sikh Rehat Maryada finalized in the 1940s was based on a study of 37 Rehatnamas, so think twice before you say the Rehatnamas are rejected in its entirety by the Panth.

Maybe you are unaware of the fact that keshdhari was historically the same as amritdhari. See Rehatnama Chaupa Singh of the 18th century which divides the Khalsa in Keshdhari (Amritdhari) and Sahajdhari alone. The 'third' division of Keshdharis came into being much later. Rehatnamas exist which clearly condemn persons who have Kesh and do not take Pahul. Reference: "dharey kesh pahul bina bhekhi muda sikh". A Sikh who keeps kesh but does not take Pahul is an imposter. Sahajdharis were allowed to cut kes but encouraged to assimilate into the Khalsa by themselves taking Amrit at one point, initiating their children or marrying into Khalsa families (see Bhagat Ratnavli - 1721 & Rehatnama Chaupa Singh - 1764).

The article is wrong. So I repeat: you cannot become patit unless you have taken Amrit and then broken Rehat.

A Patit is someone who has taken Amrit and then broken Rehat. Someone simply born in a Sikh family (not taken Pahul) that cuts his hair does not become an apostate - patit.

Had posted about this back in 2013. Now that one attack has happened where our poor brothers and sisters have been killed we might wake up and not just pass these off as 'conspiracy theories'. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72224-sikh-body-blames-former-dgp-of-conversion/page-2

I made some observations several times on this forum and facebook regarding the Islamization of our Punjab and some possible consequences. As we all know, unregulated migrant flow to Punjab of UP Muslims and especially Bangladeshi Muslims has had an immense effect on our demographics. Besides that Gujjars have migrated to Punjab in massive numbers, and being from areas such as Jammu and Kashmir they're close to militants. This is evident from the fact that I had mentioned some years ago regarding recorvery of a huge cash of illegal weapons in a Gujjar Dera in Jalandhar area. These Gujjar deras have become dens for terrorists, just see the following excerpt from the news regarding the Gurdaspur terror attack which re-affirms my view: These Gujjars have bhought a lot of land and well settled with houses and mosques in their Deras. The first incidents started happening a few years back when these Muslim immigrants tried to demolish a Gurdwara in Ludhiana. The once virtually empty mosque of Ludhiana is filled with lacs of sul-lay on friday evenings. The rising amount of acid attacks on cows in Malerkotla to provoke the Hindus. Incidents of communal violence have become much more common in recent years if one keeps a close eye on news coming from Punjab, and its mostly always Hindu-Muslim or Sikh-Muslim (barring the dera incidents). The Muslim ex police officers who are also part of the WAQF board have an active role in re-establishing mosques and regaining the land belonging to these mosques (some 480 mosques have been renovated and are active now). Izhar Alam and Mohd Mustapha are spearheading this movement and have even introduced Sharia Panchayats in our beloved Punjab. They have been actively converting poor Sikh children and other Sikhs as shown in the AISSF complaint to Akal Takht Jathedar some time back. We need to wake up before things get worse.

We fail because we place man-mat (own thinking) over gur-mat (the Gurus way). Had the previous scriptures been uncorrupted there would have been no need for the Gurus to be sent to reveal Sikhi. Simple as that. Some bits in other religions might be in accordance to Sikhi but overall none comes anywhere near Gurbani.

Rivers. They are not always checked especially flood season.

Ignoring the concept of Panj Pyare. One noted Sikh author once said that the dilution in our Panth started after the theocratic democracy (Panth) was left in favor of aristocracy and monarchies somewhere during the Misl and Ranjit Singh Kaal.

Its <banned word filter activated>, confirmed by Indian news channels. Hope these incidents do not become common in our Punjab, we had been spared till now from this India-Muslim conflict.

The demand of a Sikh state (Sikhistan or Khalistan) was there during the 1940s. Vir Singh Bhatti coined the term Khalistan in that decade and even issues pamphlets demanding areas of the Sikh princely states along with some other areas such as Shimla and Malerkotla. Our leaders were spineless, unforesighted and illiterate enough to make a decision that ruined the fate of our Nation. Some foresighted Sikhs did exist at that time. I have had the opportunity to read several books by Sikhs written in 1945-1946 and I was honestly surprised. Excerpts from a book by a Sikh gentleman written in 1946, seeing through the lies of the Congress: