MisterrSingh

Easy way out. Explain to me how I'm wrong. You think that fool you're defending who continues to allude to suicide being a wonderful release from a painful existence is something that should be praised? If someone genuinely at the end of their tether -- who isn't a posturing attention seeker like your friend -- decides to kill themselves after reading the "advice" of that 1diot, I suppose you'd be okay with it?

On any other forum you'd have been banned for the way you've been mooching around encouraging / suggesting suicidal acts. I'm not getting into a Pity Olympics / "my life's tougher than yours" bakwaas, because I don't particularly enjoy conversing with you, but you're an absolute disgrace, and you should be banned.

Actually, I had another username, which I requested to change to MisterSingh. Mods agreed. But now I realise why the extra R was added. It was already taken. I wish they'd told me.

That's not me. The mods did that.

You're kind of bringing the mood down in these particular type of threads, which for a thread on suicide is quite a feat. So you obviously don't have the constitution for killing yourself. What's next? Are you going to sort your head out, or you going to continue to wallow in self pity? How long you gonna be lost and confused, Singh?

People mature. I'm not someone who admires or values the royal family, but I'd be quite disappointed if something I did in my younger years was dug up to criticise me each time someone wanted to have a go. Not me, though. I've always had a beard in my belly, as the old Punjabi saying goes. Vahguroo!

Ahmediyas: a historically persecuted -- at the hands of mainstream Islam! -- Muslim sect that's held up as an example of the "good", acceptable, and tolerant side of Islam. Yet, this is what happens when you give any Islamic group an inch; they reveal their true hand, and reach for a mile! This is EXACTLY the reason I roll my eyes when people get misty eyed about fringe Muslim sects -- such as Sufis -- being an antidote to the mainstream khattar orthodoxy of the Sunni & Shia crews. The fact isn't that Ahmediyas and Sufis don't share the beliefs and the aim of their Ummah brethren, i.e. the establishment of the Caliphate and the subjugation of the Kaffir. The difference is these minor sects desire the same outcomes as their bigger brothers, only they aren't too fussed on getting to that destination in a hurry, as opposed to the Sunnis and Shia who want it all yesterday. The Ummah reigns supreme. Muslim apologists and sympathisers are either too dense to process this FACT, or are willfully omitting these inconvenient truths in order to strengthen their narrative of #notallmuslims.

JQ.

Lying British and American scum. The media stooges making the case for these strikes need hanging. The plan was always Iraq > Afghanistan > Libya > Syria > Iran > Russia. Saudis are comfortably in bed with the various western governments and agencies pushing their respective agendas. I expect another flimsy pretext for war to emerge in the next few years, with Iran being next, perhaps in another 10 or so years. Meanwhile, the incessant disinformation and brainwashing will continue.

I had the exact same thought yesterday. I agree, the positive aspects of our culture such as our language, our folklore, and other cultural and historical markers should be treasured for posterity, but I can't help but think we've lost our way. In many ways I think Punjabiyat has inadvertently dumbed down the impact and image of Sikhi. I look at the contemporary figureheads of the Panth, and I think, "No. You can fool these simpletons, but you aren't making a mug out of me. You're not what Dasme Paatshah had in mind for us." But, as I said, there are some wonderful aspects to our culture besides the weird self-destructive and egoistic pandering parts of it. I'll try to briefly summarise the problem as I see it, and I genuinely believe a considerable aspect of the overall problem lies in third party perception as well as our own Punjabi interpretations gradually bleeding into that which should be immutable. In Sikhi we have a philosophy that, if gifted to a community of people who came from medieval Italy, for argument's sake, would be considered a treasure for humanity. The problem as addressed by this topic arises because of the somewhat erroneous assumption (I wouldn't quite call it discriminatory) that the humble origins of the faith and the seemingly... unsophisticated following who took up the faith are considered to be an indication of the substance and value of the philosophy itself. We haven't done ourselves any favours in this regard, as this is where I believe Punjabiyat is wielded as a stick to beat Sikhi, because we've sort of floundered and coasted along since the arguable golden age of our faith, and eventually for the admittedly essential act of survival and proliferation we've become the very thing that we weren't kind of supposed to, i.e. an organised religion and everything it entails. We've switched off. We just follow without any serious khoj. Coupled with the human desire to create factions and subgroups for various purposes, which could be argued is even more of a problem in desi cultures, there's a sense we've forgotten and neglected the spirit of that essential founding spark which allowed our faith to emerge. Being surrounded by the Indianess of India on all sides means we've regressed socially, intellectually, and spiritually. There's so much going on, and can't be pinned on a few reasons.

I said "people." I never alluded to their nationality or ethnicity. My next door neighbours are a family of Nigerian Christians. Most kindest and warmest people I've ever known. They've shown me more love than any Sikh ever has. There's savages in all races. In this particular context, there's a hathi in the room not many are eager to discuss, which is ironic considering there's many, many black nationalities and ethnicities who have no problem calling a spade a spade. It's the perpetually offended "educated" white man who's terrified of conducting a frank and honest discussion. That's ultimately to their detriment as history will prove one day.

Some of the c4@p I've heard all week from some of the most so-called educated and informed people in society in regards to this issue, tells me this country doesn't have very long remaining. Delusional cowards. Let it burn. Protect yourselves and your families as best you can. If these animals and their enablers want to destroy each other, they can go right ahead. As unpopular as the following sentiment may be, until society accepts the idea that some people are born bad -- lower life forms who've inhabited the garb of Man -- then nothing will ever change. You could spend your entire life trying to plead with, reason, and tolerate these individuals. The tragedy is good people having to share living space with such individuals.

You keep chipping away on as many fronts as possible until those who write the narrative of society deem your cause worthy of being noticed. If you're lucky, the cause is promoted and championed by these social trendsetters and mood-makers. Then watch how it passes into the acceptable and normal mainstream. Until then, be prepared to be demonised, slandered, and killed. It's all one disturbing game; disturbing because what's at stake are the lives of millions.

This phenomenon you've rightly observed is brought into even greater relief when you go to Nankana Sahib in Pakistan. The atmosphere and general state of the asthaans in Pakistan is almost like travelling back in time to our Guru Sahib's era. I can't decide whether it's a case of neglect (Muslims gonna Muslim) or a desire to maintain those sites in a style that is as close to their original condition as possible. Don't get me wrong, they aren't in a total state of disrepair or anything as grave as that, but what's noticeable when compared to Indian based asthaans is the general lack of that feeling of sterility of visiting a tourism spot (in that typically cack-handed, ostentatious Indian way that just seems to be pushed to the extreme) which is what's gradually happening to major religious sites in Punjab. The historical and spiritual authenticity of our holy sites is being replaced by something I'm certain is doing more harm than good. Maintenance and upkeep is good, but not at the expense of the overall feel and experience of the place.

Many games being played on both sides. They're making mugs of us. Don't fall for it.

N.R.A.B. That goes double for shopkeepers.

The sangat has to be worthy of the title, in my opinion. Having a gaggle of - hitherto undiscovered - adulterers, fraudsters, and practitioners of the dark arts (?) sitting in judgement of someone who's a comparative angel compared to the types of individuals I've mentioned, is laughably poor form. Nobody's going to voluntarily raise their hand and come clean about their own transgressions, but you better believe there's going to be some holier-than-thou finger wagging occurring when the chappal is on the other foot. In theory it's undoubtedly a fine practice, but knowing all we do about our people and human behaviour in general, how is it enforceable in a way that does justice to the obviously good and honourable religious precedent established by our spiritual and religious guides?

Brahmchari ki pratigya. It's the sanest choice in an insane world, lol.

I've always suspected that beyond the obvious spiritual justifications about soul brides and what have you, the pragmatic social and moral reasons for encouraging the lifestyle of a householder are important for the growth of any healthy and successful society or group of people with a common set of beliefs. Tell the flock they'll suffer spiritual consequences for adultery or sowing wild oats outside the structure of a monogamous marriage, and most of them will tow the line. As much of the teachings of Sikh scripture are timeless, I find myself looking at the era and social mores of the time of them being established to understand some of the reasons for what's being imparted to us.

Could the compositional and grammatical styles of Gurbani be used as an accurate indicator to gauge the spoken form of Punjabi from those times? Or is that as silly as suggesting everyone in Tudor England spoke in the way that Shakespeare used to write his various works? I never really gave it much thought until OP started this topic, but now I'm fascinated.

I wonder what the Punjabi of the 13th to 18th century sounded like compared to what we know it to be in contemporary times? Was it as different in style as English of the medieval times is compared to present-day English?