chatanga1

Has Sonia Deol actually said she is no longer a sikh? That was mnay decades ago. They haven't managed to do too well in any wars they've been involved in, i the last 2 decades. Although not the subject in hand, I will leave it at "Neither were right..." Deep stood for the panth, and that is enough to make him a hero. Jagtar Johal was the same. He cut his hair, but did a very good job of keeping the stories of the Khalistan movement alive. If they aren't good enougn for you because you wear a turbna, maybe you should show us how it should be done? Anyone with a functioning brain would see a maggot like ghaghriwala and see the same. but they wouldn't see it in ghaghri's beard or turban. Well in that case maybe we can ask Martin Docherty-Hughes, MP, who has relentlessly pursued Jagtar's case to shut up, as he is not Sikh enough? Or tell Pat McFadden who worked tirelessly for Sikh interests in Panjab and UK for the l;ast 20 years, that he was a hypocrite? I don't ever see any muslims questioning the religion or religious attire of support for Palestine, but Sikhs are something else. I personally knew a mona guy married to a hindu woman, (not anand karaj) who is one of the brightest and sharpest minds I've seen when it comes to "Sikh interests" but it would be ok to argue he's a hypocrite I guess. It is YOUR opinion though. And you are entitled to it, just like any other Sikh who chooses to what degree they follow the Guru. If you're a braham gyani then that's different. Are you a braham gyani? What good was there in planting the Khalsa flag at Peshawar when Maharaja Ranjit Singh was drinking liquor that same evening? And every evening after? Because you're not a brahamgyani, and therefore you're not a sikh either.

And internally as well. This is one thing I've repeated for years and years. We have to stand on our own feet for ourselves first. No other community is truly our friend. You can't blame those people for coming in, or for Sikhs going out. The fact is that people nned to eat and most young Sikhs are so devoid of Gurmat and panthic thoughts that they would prefer to emigrate to the west and earn money rather than stay in Panjab and work for the betterment of the Panth. It's just a way of the world at the moment. In England there are a population of around 30,000 travellers I would say (could be more!) in a population of some 60 million. Yet these travellers (read Irish gypsies) are still feared by more or less everyone in England, including the Police. The police would rather turn away from any confrontation with travellers, as they can muster a good gang of fighting men. ANd when it comes to the general public, they would sheet themselves from any confrontation with these people. Gujjars are not weak people physicaly. There are many gujjars who play kabadi for pakistan and they are proper fit. I don't know why Sikh have this notion that they are physically weak or small or things like that. If nothing has changed regarding the numbers of Biharis in Panjab for over 25 years, what is realistically going to change now? that is the same thinking that the traitorous rajas of Cis-satluj had concerning Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Accept the theiving terrorist british as overlords and save ourselves from Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Why oh why was Maharaja Sahib so lenient with them. Once he had defeated them, he should have executed the bloody lot of them. But he was too kind-hearted towards them and look what they did as soon as he released them. Once the Sikhs let the RSS take control of this, it will give them such a boost and ammo to use against us.

I don't know. Beanta was a full keshdhari as was Darbara Singh.

Myself. Retreated into family life, working, playing on the Playstation, working out and listening to katha, reading. But still observing from a distance, without getting involved and hoping one day soon that some young Sikhs will get their act together, and hoping that one day sooner the elders who are holding the community back die quickly.

It would be great for this to happen but that party has gone stagnant under SimranJit Singh Maan. He has been there for 30 years but there is no sign of any younger, charismatic Sikh replacement.

I wanted to share some views of some hindus, obviously very angry that Panjab has steered away from the traditional cesspit that is dynasty politics and elected AAP. You can see their venom in their views on Sikhs.

Great find and share bro.

You will never know. Even when you die, you will never know. Why obsess over this? Or if you REALLY need to know, I will tell you, "she is ok, having the time of her life." Don't ask me how I know. The questions you are asking are exactly those that Arjun asked Lord Shri Krishna on kurukshetra battlefield. The Lord allayed Arjun's fears and told him to do his duty. IN the same way, do your duty. To your soul. More than anything it comes across as MOH. Gurbani tells us never to overly attach ourselves to anything that is one day going to die. Read Gurbani and educate yourself. If you don't beleive that ghosts or spirits exist, then simple you cannot believe in Gurbani, and the Guru. Read what SGGS says about these spirits. Try and open your mind to the Guru.

Power politics is in the hands of the majority. Power is in the hand of the sword holder.

It seems that some Sikhs are not reading up on their history. And that's a shame as this particular history is only around 80 years old. In 1944, H S Mailk also produced a map of Panjab and outlined it as a Sikh country, to the British. Muslims were asking for Pakistan, so why couldn't the Sikhs have their own country as well. Seems a fair argument. But the map Malik produced and presented to the British would have only showed a Sikh population of some 20%. The British asked him on what grounds would you claim this as a "Sikh" country? Both the other communities could outvote your community individually. Malik had no answer. Lesson learnt?

What made you think of Master Tara Singh?

oh twadi ! don't read too much into this vile individual. She is truly one despicable person.

Because no-one can force you to use or overuse the water on your own land. If that knowledge was known beforehand then the farmers would not have implemented any changes to a system they knew worked for them. Another example, the wheat grown today in Panjab is from a hybrid seed that was a result of research in Mexico. Before that Panjabi farmers used their own seeds, but when this new seed was taken to Panjab and trialled and the farmers there saw how it was better, they adopted the new seeds over their own. This happened in the early 70s. Slowly it replaced the original seed. Can we say the same for how water is used in Panjab?

I am not discounting their wisdom, and can't see anyone else tring to either but the point here is that we are trying to increase their wisdom. There was a time, when all farming was hard manual labour. When people needed bullock-carts to pull ploughs but now they use tractors. Nowadays, there is so much done by machine, even seriuosly hard mundane work like the planting of rice etc. Another point where farmers of Panjab seriously need to expand their wisdom is the conservation of water. Water is a key issue in Panjab at the moment. Farming the way our elders did 30 or 40 years ago is heading towards a mini-disaster. I saw a video where this guy had actually had a suspended tract of soil where he was growing ridiculously large vegetables because of his expert use of water. And he told how he was nonly using some 10% of water that he used to use, in traditional methods.

The reason is generational education. The older generation are set in their ways and fearful of new innovations, prefering to do things the way they have for the last 40 odd years, while a younger generation are not that interested in farming any more so don't hold an interest in learning new techniques or technologies, even though they can see it works. I have seen a similiar video and wanted to try and do it in my own garden but haven't managed to do it yet.

Let's look at WHY the SIngh Sabha wanted to take over Sri Akal Bunga first. IN the 1920s when 2nd Singh Sabha Lehar started, low caste people, esp Churre and Chamars, were NOT allowed to enter the Parikarma of Darbar Sahib because of their caste. The management (pre SGPC) were enforcing this. Low castes had to do namishkar from the steps and go back. What kind of nonsense is this in the holiest place in the world? The Singh Sabha wanted to end this as they did an enormous amount of parchar amongst low castes and brought thousands into Sikhi. However the British backed management of Darbar Sahib would not allow them in. Guess who was either supporting the management, or at the very least allowing it to happen? The same Nihangs you are talking about. How on earth is this Gurmat? By those whoare supposed to be the custodians of Sikhi? When the Singh Sabha had wrested control of Darbar Sahib from the British stooges, they moved to the next important shrine in the complex - Sri Akal Takht Sahib. You have to ask yourself, why did the nihangs let such manmat happen in there. The key is to be on the side of Gurmat, not nihang or singh sabha. Also you are confusing Babbar Akalis with Nihangs. They are not the same. The Nihangs were not on the point of extinction. At this time, the British passed an order to shoot Nihangs on sight in Panjab, but it was repealed soon after. When this order came about most Chakarvarti Nihangs left Panjab for safer confines, but not ALL and certainly not those in their deras or bungas. Worhsip of weapons. It is mentioned in old Sikh texts and is still practiced by Dal Panth. If I'm not mistaken the shastar pooja day falls one day after Diwali. Baba Binod Singh didn't commit treason with Baba Banda Bahadur. They simplt differed over battle tactics. Binod Singh wanted to leave the fort and face the moghals in open battle. Banda Bahadar wanted to wait and see if reinforcements arrived, or for the beseigers to get tired of the siege and lift it. Banda Bahadur did not stop any Sikhs leaving with Binod Singh and as it turns out the end result was not favourable for either group. Binod Singhs' group were all killed in open battle against overwhelming enemy forces. Baba Banda Bahadurs' forces were taken almost at death from starvation and then executed in delhi. 1. Yes. 2. Answered above. 3. This is the issue. Yes, because if they are given control again, they will start doing parkash of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib, which is essential as some much poison is spread against Guru Sahib's Granth, and this will be a good way of countering that. haha. Only cos they hate his hindu-sikh nonsense and got him at Sri Hazur Sahib were he was humiliated. Afterwards he released a statment that if he desired to, he could have killed them all easily. Niddar would never have lasted one day in the camps. This is just his warped way of claiming that he, and only he, is the true Sikh in the world lol.

Really great information. But it only takes one drop of poison in a dish of food to kill you... Niddar says that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was "taught" shastar vidya by some kapil naths or something like that. That meant that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a Guru other than Sri Akal Purkh, which is absolute nonsense. Guru Nanak Dev Ji already had these qualities and knowledge. No-one could teach the Guru anything. If they could they were HIS Guru. Beware of what you take from this video as niddar is well known for his intellectual dishonesty. And I say that from personal experience.

So we are in agreement about the Hindus and Muslims being the traitors of Panjab. Many Hindus turned out to fight against Baba Banda Bahadur. The same ones who attacked the Guru. The same ones who claim to be Hindus. 1857 was not any war of independence. It was a mutiny against the British, based on religious sensibilities. Only in the last few years have some misguided people started calling it a war of independence. And "for a few bucks," the poorbias sided with the British and helped them win Calcutta and then the same poorbia hindus and muslims helped the British destroy the last indigenous rule of the Sikhs in Panjab. So if you REALLY want to talk about a few bucks, at least go to the beginning please. Again, I agree with you. I myself don't understand why Sikh people deny their hindu roots. We were once Hindus. We should not be afraid or embarrassed about that. We don't need to hide it. But if we really want to talk about traitors, shouldn't we begin with those who KNEW they were hindus and still sided those belonging to "an alien culture" AGAINST those who did not deny their Hindu roots? Multani/Seraiki is a dialect of Panjabi to begin with. But in some countries you do get languages which are spoken by minorities ie in the UK, we have Gaelic, Welsh and Cornish. This doesn't really make any difference about the overall status of the language in the UK - English. Christian parchar is still done in Panjabi in Panjab 180 years after Christianity entered Panjab in any serious form. So if these peoples language status has not altered one iota in 180 years do you seriously beleive there is an immediate threat? It still exists. But I want to expand on your valid point a little further. "where is the body of literature, intellectual rigour and philosophical reasoning, art and creativity, architectural and historic buildings that have sustained a culture for thousands of years across the continent of Bharat? " I'll give you a clue. The traitors are too busy wiping out the Sikhs and other minorities in their quest of some superior Bharat.

Watch this video brother : for answers

This shabad has nothing to do with reincarnation. It points out the poignant fact that a human body has no value in death, not like an animal body which still goes on to serve a purpose. It's telling humans not to be proud of their bodies or egotistic if they are beautiful or strong etc. Why? Because one day that body will be dust and worthless. Worth LESS than an animal whose body gives assisitance after death. Brother, you need to stop listening to missionary parasites like dhunda panthpreet and dhadrianwala. They only study a select few shabads and even twist the meaning of those and confuse other people. Why do these people never engage in debates with others? Because they are afraid of being exposed.

Reincarnation does not happen in the mind. This is a new tactic being spread by the missionary parasites that are plaguing Gurmat. Why? Bevcause it's too close to Hindu religion. Any similarities between Hindusim and Gurmat must be Bahmanwaad and nothing else, and any similarities must be explained away even if they go against gurmat and are complete nonsense. So when someone acts good do they become liberated ? Do they fall into a joon where they are now one with Sri Akal Purkh? and then when they act bad they fall into another incarnation? Look at this shabad concerning reincarnation : ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl: ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥ in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥ In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥ In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1|| ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him. ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause|| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves; ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2|| ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥ Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥ Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har. ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance. ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3|| ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ ॥ Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord. ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ No one else can do anything at all. ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥ We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself. ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥ Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72|| OP, you have posted two foibles of human character and related them to animals, but what characteristics does a person have to display to become a worm, a deer, a mountain or a tree? What characteristics does a person have to display to go throgh the "reincarnation of being aborted" ? That's not true though is it, if you read gurbani. Gurbani says ਸਚੀ ਕਾਰੈ ਸਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥ By true actions, the True Lord is met, and the Guru's Teachings are found. ਸੋ ਨਰੁ ਜੰਮੈ ਨਾ ਮਰੈ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ Then, they are not subject to birth and death; they do not come and go in reincarnation. ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਿ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਸੋ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਪੈਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੧੪॥ O Nanak, they are respected at the Lord's Gate; they are robed in honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||14|| and many more lines like this in Gurbani.

I understand your postition on this, but in Sri Gur Panth Parkash, the Dal Khalsa saw the need to align with those who threatened our very existence at times, like Zakariya Khan and Mir Mannu. Although it's not exactly the same situation but where these people's needs can be strengthened with our own and/or vice versa, then its somthing that should be considered. Panjab belongs to the people of it's soil. Panjab is our motherland. That can include HIndus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. But who would strike a dagger into their own mother's heart? The Muslims showed their disdain for Panjab when they prefered some alien hybrid bihari language over their own mother tongue in the 1850s. A century later, the HIndus displayed the same disloyalty to Panjab when they returned Hindi as their mother tongue. Both these two religious groups are traitors to Panjab. An excellent post and great info. Just as the Sikhs of panjabi-speaking areas didn't want hindi foisted upon them. neither did the Haranyvis want Panjabi foisted upon them. We can't deny them the same right we want. The dialect of Baagri Panjabi, is probably to us in the UK how geordies speak english, not very pleasant to listen to lol. I have some faroff relatives who speak that dialect and its not very easy to understand. Its spoken more towards the central part of Haryana I believe. Sometimes I have heard elders say "bagar boli" when someone says something they don't understand. The main Hindu resistance came from the Hindus of Majha and Doaba. Cities like Amritsar with a majority HIndu community returned HIndi as their mother tongue. In Doaba, the Chamars under the banner of the aad dharmi movement returned hindi under the influence of the Congress parety. Those Panjabis are still untrustworthy - the RSS cadres and the Dera Ballan movement. But it's not them we want to reach out to. They will never align themselves with the Sikhs, too full of hankaar and krodh more than anything.

Can you translate that hindi for us ? Suraj Parkash Granth also says that on Guru Sahib's return home, Baba Sri Chand asked Guru Sahib for a gift, and Guru Nanak Dev Ji asked what does he want? Baba Sri Chand asked for the Udasi garments of Guru Sahib. The garments that Guru Nanak Dev Ji wore when Guru Ji went on their udasis. The original Udasi was Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and he gave and blessed Baba Sri Chand to continue this form of parchar.

If all the teachings of the Guru's are in SGGS, then please tell me which ang I may find the teaching to have "Singh" in my name. If you can't find it, then can you please remove "Singh" from you name? Suraj Parkash Granth says that Guru Ji kept afeem (opioids) in a small box, which he gave to severely wounded Sikhs in battle, to alleviate their pain. What is wrong and shameful about that?

The Udasis are severely split as a Samprdai. There are some groups that see themselves as a panth within the wider Guru Nanak Naam Leva Panth, and there are some that are quite antagonistic towards the Panth, seeing themselves as Hindus, and Baba Sri Chand as the reincarnation of Bhagwaan Shiv Ji. The Udasi dera in Jalandhar of Baba Ishar Das, have Sri Guru Granth Sahib parkash and do gurbani kirtan, whereas the Sangalwara Udasi dera in Amritsar do not have Guru Granth Sahib there, and neither do they call themselves Sikhs. This dera is right opposite Sri Darbar Sahib.