Niranjana

The concert was well organised and well attended by Sikh and non-Sikh alike. The funds raised were for a children's charity. The 1st half concerned sangeet only with a series of musical solos from the ragas contained within the Guru Granth Sahib. The second half was Gurbani Kirtan during which all covered their heads. Overall, it was a great event both for celebrating the Gurpurb and for raising further awareness of the divine musical heritage of the Sikhs for both Sikhs and non-Sikhs alike. Whatever our opinions of the individuals concerned, let's look at the wider picture and stop acting like obstacles for what overall is a positive for Sikhs in general.

<<I was just wondering though were they could even begin to think up this type of "maryada">> <<<Its because they either aint ever read the sri guru grant sahib ji, or they cant understand it. Then ignorance kicked in. They should be corrected>>> This is interesting, since many of today's Jathabandis also derive their Sarabloh Bibek, dubious bana (featuring certain lengths for the chola and what not), own brand of Kakkars, Pati-Parmeasur Pooja and various other things, that many here regard to be "chardi kala" from these very rehitnamas, of course they use SELECTIVE quotes from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but then THEY ALL DO THIS!!! and THEY are ALL still DIFFERENT!!! The best thing is that all these groups systematically attack the Akal Thakt Rehit Maryada, whether openly or underhand (by publically claiming they support the Akal Thakt, when clearly their actions and beliefs do not) and deride it as some form of SGPC invented Rehit or some Christianity accomodating adaption from the articles of the CoE. The even funnier thing is that this seems to be the only consistent item that these groups agree to - i.e. oppose THE Sikh Rehit Maryada, on other points they argue consistently between themselves.

Just as funny as people who think that so and so "chardi kala" -"LOOKING" Singh with massive dumalla and Sri Sahib is automatically correct or indeed that their Baba, Bhai Sahib and others are right, even if they do descend from dubious characters like Babu Taja Singh Bhasauria - many of these types of characters, just like Sanatanis, can be found plastered over the net spreading their brand of Sikhi.

Talking of Khanda signs and drinks - has ANYTHING been done about "Khalsa WINE STORES" of B'ham ways?

He is wrong about Guru Gobind Singh, yes did wear white, but also yellow, saffron and other colours. Blue is not barred or preferred. But he is correct that Bani does not favour any one colour.

There is nothing wrong with wearing Blue, but the it is AN ABSOLUTE MYTH that BLUE is THE colour of the Khalsa. Have a look into Amritpal's website for fuller details on the link provided. Likewise whilst you're there note the "Arun" clothes of the Sahibzadas and the myths concocted about what actually is acceptable in terms of colour!

Baba Baaj Singh (Bandai) was one of the cheif members of the 'real' Bandai Khalsa (not the nakli Bandai we often hear about today). He was indeed a great warrior and one should compare his deeds to those of Baba Binod Singh (Jathedar Buddha Dal) in respect to what happened during the time leading up to and including Baba Banda Singh Bahadur's Shaheedi.

This post is hilarious! Rape this and that!!! Grow up and get real! The Kachera was/is a complete dress in its own right. The Singhs of old would not wear cholas like we see today and all this bakwaas about the length of cholas having to of a certain level above/below the Kachera is simply made up gobbledigook. For more information, have a read of the following: http://www.amritworld.com/nihangs/chola.html The 'Chola' (Amrit Pal Singh 'Amrit') In essence, any shirt can be termed a 'Chola', however today this term is used almost exclusively for a type of long shirt or tunic, which was once very popular in India. Even today one can see Hindu, Sikh and Muslim ascetics and holy persons wearing a 'Chola'. It would not be inappropriate here to step outside of our main topic on Nihangs to consider some generic items relating to the 'Chola'. In India, many families perform a religious ceremony during which clothes are put on newborn baby. This ceremony also is called 'Chola' from which we can clearly see that originally every shirt, whether it is long or short, was regarded as 'Chola', although this word is used solely for long shirts/tunics nowadays. There are many kinds of such long shirts. We shall look at some of them below: - Punjabi Kurta A simple Punjabi 'Kurta' is called 'Chola' if it is long enough. There is very famous song, in which the word 'Chola' has been used for long 'Kurta': - Mera Rang De Basantee Chola Maaye, Rang De Basantee Chola. Bengali Kurta The Bengali Kurta is slightly different from Punjabi Kurta. It has a different type of collar than that of Punjabi Kurta. There is also another kind of Bengali Kurta, which is made without a collar. A traditional Bengali Kurta does not have buttons on the arms, although these have now been added for purposes of convenience. On bases of 'Kali' (a particular part of 'Kurta'), there are two kinds of Bengali Kurtas. One is without of 'Kalis' and other with them. There can be many 'Kalis', from four to hundred, even more. The 'Chola' worn by Sikh saints is originally a Bengali Kurta with 'Kalis'. 'Nihang Chola' When the historic Budhha Dal and Taruna Dal were fighting against the rulers and Muslim invaders, most of their members used to wear only Kachhehra and turban. They would cover their bodies with blankets. Giani Gian Singh writes in his 'Panth Prakash': - Khat Ras Ka Wah Swaad Na Jaanai. Kaprha Aur Na Tan Par Thhaanai. Kamar Jaangheeya, Ik Sir Patka. Bhoore Giltee Baana Jatka. (They [the Singhs] do not know taste of six flavors. They do not wear any other clothes. There is underwear around their waists and a turban on their heads. They wear blankets, a Jatt dress). A painting, in which a Nihang is seen without 'Chola' Later, they started to wear shirts too. Foreigner painters have illustrated Nihangs in shirts, which are not as long as the cholas in which we see Nihangs today, as their underwear ('Kachhehra') is visible. Such shirts or 'Cholas' can be seen nowadays amongst a handful of the southern Sikhs in India. A painting, in which a Nihang is seen in small 'Chola' Modern Nihangs wear long shirts, which cover their 'Kachhehras'. A Nihang in a long 'Chola' It is a kind of 'Chola', which was worn predominantly by Muslim rulers in India. The Hindu Kings too under India's Muslim sultanate used to wear such 'Cholas' in Mogul courts. In some paintings, the Hindu sovereign King Chhatrapati Shivaji Maratha and his army men are shown in such attire. Shivaji with his Hindu army men, who are in 'Cholas' A Nihang in skyblue 'Chola' An important facet to note about modern day Nihang Cholas is their structure. Similar to an ordinary shirt, the Chola will have buttons all along the front side as opposed to only a few as is the case with an ordinary kurta. This buttons stopped at the waist where the modern Chola has a ‘pati’ (belt) for wrapping around the ‘Kamarkasa’ (cumberband) in which Nihangs keep their weapons. The bottom section of the chola (below the ‘patti’ for the ‘Kamarkasa’) is open and flowing like a tunic. Many now also have other conventional items similar to western shirts and military wear in terms of pockets and inclusion of ‘shoulder boards’.

oh give it a rest!!! this is such a non-issue for Sikhs - why debate it endlessly!!!

The kirpan issue is an interesting one - whilst the maintenance of Rehit is paramount, I cannot imagine Singhs of old (with their min. 3ft long Kirpans) tying it around their heads or indeed allowing it to drenched whilst swimming, but I guess we're no longer faced with that issue. Surely in these circumstances we can adopt matters by using a diver's style blade carrier, whereby the kirpan would be stapped steadfast to one's arm with no restriction to movement or risk of loss. The germs thing is...wow! great! keep it up! :lol:

This is good stuff, where can one find the reference/source for further reading?

It is Vaheguroo, since the sound of "w" does not exist in Punjabi/Gurmukhi, the letter VaaVaa is NOT WaaWaa, hence all Roman Transliterations of Gurmukhi using "w" are simply incorrect.

Khalsa Fauj, I ask again, let's handle this step by step - please provide "YOUR" understanding of the quoted line and "WHY" and then let's look at this accordingly. In the meantime, have a think about the following: - The word "Natak" and its implications - History in Prose vs Poetry (i.e. as has been the case in India for centuries) - A style or theme of writing - Dhust Daman is NOT mentioned in the Dasam Granth, but in the Sau Sakhi, which further testifies to the lack of knowledge on part of the quotes and analysis provided above. -Does the fact that Jesus descended from a Jewish background, has certain accounts which refer to him as "Rabbi", others which call him "King of the Jews" make him a Jew??? If not, then why do you apply the same logic for your conclusions on the Guru Sahibs??? -The use of words and their changing implications and meanings over time. Thanks, Niranjana.

Khalsa Fauj, You have not given any arths to this quote, only your twisted vichar, which in fact is not even yours!!! You have no ability to even construct your own sentences let alone translate this sentence, if you could you wouldn't make such ludicrous statements as you have done. You have NO knowledge of languages, NO knowledge of literature, in short you are FAR from being qualified from making such analysis. I am not claiming that I possess such skills, however this why you don't find any long drawn conclusions from me, however where I do, you'll find my own rationale for it, in your case that is clearly missing!!!

Veer Singh 47, You also stated: <<Even I have worn a Chand, and a blue Chola few times, and I don’t see why I need the approval or permission of Nihangs to do so. It is my right as a Sikh to wear these as they belong to the Khalsa Panth, and was worn by our Dasmesh Pita, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. >> Please could you or any other learned member please illustrate how the Chand Tora or even the Farla are items that belong to the Khalsa owing to "Guru Gobind Singh" - I have to date seen no reference in any puratan or even naveen text referring to the "Chand Tora" and its connection with Guru Sahib.

Mintu, Uptej Singh "Teji" is a Gatka teacher in East London who is also affiliated with the AKJ in the UK. I have personally met him a few times at numerous family functions and at the Gurdwara - he is a pleasant fellow.

Singh47, You stated that "Even Nirmalas like Kavi Santokh Singh, Sant Singh, Giani Gian Singh, Pandit Tara Singh Narotam" didn't believe in Raagmala. This is grossly incorrect and something anti-raagmala supporter use to cover up for their main man Teja Singh Bhasauria. Kavi Santokh has not said he doesn't believe in raagmala, only that he does not known if it was written by the Gurus or not. Gyani Gyan Singh is also misquoted on this front.

Is this Katha available on line?

AKJ Chandigarh, Criticising is the incorrect term to use - however, given your own background and many others here, I am not surprised that people find analysis to be criticism when it doesn't suit their needs or when it agrees with their negative views on a particular point. Just like the Nihang thread is not an 'beating' or 'trashing' against Nihangs, the analysis of Hazoori Maryada is no different, indeed the same with the analysis of the Snatan Sikhs. From my reading of his works to date, where things are challenged, they have been done with the necessary questions and references (and not on the basis of what so and so Baba said or Bhai Sahib had a vision of) and where matters have been shown to be inconsistent, it does not negate their acceptability today, only the assertion of their dogma as professed by their supporters. Unfortunately no matter how hard Sikh scholars or writers try, the masses can only see things in terms of black and white and desire to stick everything into compartments. Gur Fateh! Niranjana.

Khalsa Fauj, aka "copy and paste" scholar, Please could you kindly provide the meaning what I requested: Mur Pit Poorabh Keeyas Pyana Bhaant Bhaant Kay Teerath Naana Jub Hee Jaat Tirbhainee Bhae Pun Daan Din Kurt Bitae What does this mean to YOU and WHY is it contrary to GURMAT??? Actually explain this ONE tuk, let's work a little by little and rather than just copy and pasting other peoples ideas... Thanks, Niranjana.

Dhust Daman is not mentioned in the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, this is a name found in the Sau Sakhi, which is a different text and some have over time tried to link in full with Guru Sahib. This fuss over the word reincarnation is the result of what happens when relying entirely on English translations. Of course, in another 500 years, when the likes of our good 'messenger of truth' aka "Khalsa Fauj" reads a present day newspaper article covering say the World Cup Football with headlines referring to the "Bulldogs" (British) will claim that this too is a RSS propaganda because since well do Bulldogs play football!

Our friend "khalsa fauj", I'll come back to Maha Kaal later - this has in fact been answered many times, but in anycase, just for you, we'll deal with it again. But before doing so, please explain how the following is "Anti-Gurmat": Mur Pit Poorabh Keeyas Pyana Bhaant Bhaant Kay Teerath Naana Jub Hee Jaat Tirbhainee Bhae Pun Daan Din Kurt Bitae And also, without providing any challenge to the notion you suggest, even if Luv and Kush are our ancestors, how does that make us Hindu? I guess your ancestry before Guru Nanak Dev Ji preched Sikhi on Earth didn't exist? You simply dropped out of the sky as a Sikh? Your point on this a very childish one - before we even get into debating if Luv and Kush are our ancestors. But first, please explain what is anti-gurmat about the above selection. Thanks, Niranjana. p.s. These objections to Dasam Bani are not new, they have been around for some time now and also answered, perhaps you can read those as well, before proclaiming yourself as the messenger of Truth.

Hindus pray to idols - SIkhs don't, does that mean that a Hindu is (a) insulting Guru Sahib and (b) therefore no welcome to the Gurdwara? Christian drink wine as part of their sacrament, Sikhs are not supposed to use alcohol, I assume therefore that means that Christian are (a) insulting Sikh Maryada and (b) thus should not be allowed in the Gurdwara? ...and so on... ...I think people really need to look over their attitudes again on this front. The Namdharis, regardless of their dehdhari Guru, still revere Gurbani (both Granth Sahibs - unlike many of today's so called "Sikhs" who like to pick and choose which bits of Guru Sahib's bani they'll "accept") and are not part of the 5 Mel as per the Akal Thakt. If he was preaching something contrary to Gurmat whilst in the Gurdwara, then he would be treated like anyone else doing the same doing likewise, Sikh or not.

And thus the Khalsa Fauj and other conspirators against the heavenly bani of Guru Gobind Singh as enshrined in the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib danced gayly into the arms of the RSS and others who seek to destroy Sikh lineage and heritage by doing their works for them, these imprudent persons could not see past their own noses yet feel they are able to effectively speak of the scriptures, little realising what they were in fact doing is chopping off their own feet. The damage that will be caused by such 'censorship' and 'paranoia' to the Sikh Panth will be long lasting and unfrotunately this time there will be no Brahmins to blame for 'contaminating' our scriptures, no Government to blame for burning our reference library, no RSS, only the Sikhs of today's "khalsa"...

Good Stuff Taksali Veer (Jas). Gur Fateh! Niranjana.