proactive

It's sad that after so many years, we have three good Sikh channels who all did great work highlighting the events of June 1984 and yet some people look for minor mistakes in order to get on their high horse and make allegations of deals between GOI and Sikh channel. The OP would have made a more constructive contribution by either emailing or phoning the Sikh Channel and highlighting their mistake and getting in rectified. All the three channels have made great contributions and we now have a media which we should be promoting and not nitpicking and then wasting time posting these mistakes on forums.

It's not a case of slandering anyone after their death but surely the truth should be told whether the person it relates to is alive of dead. I remember in 1997 when Badal came to power he didn't have a tenth of the wealth he has now. I was told a story about how a close relative of the badals went to visit Badal to a permit to run buses on a particular route. It was well known that you had to bring a wad of notes in order to get the permit. Badal never dirtied his hand with the bribes and it was always his wife who handled the cash. When this relative of the Badals came to Badal, Badal was ok with giving him a permit without taking the bribe but his wife would have none of it, apparently said that he would only need to give half the bribe and even Badal was embarrassed and said he was powerless to change the 'faisla' of his wife once made. Let's be honest, she was well known to go to any anti-Panthic 'guru' and baba going even flouting the hukumnamas of the Akal Takht. It was because of patronage of people like her that every dambhi baba in Punjab thought he could stand up to the Khalsa panth. It is because of her that Sacha Sauda has become so powerful. If you want to learn a lesson from his life then it is this, that no amount of power and wealth will allow you to escape death in the end. No doubt she died a painful death.

Never heard so much bukwas in my life. How could Jats who were a small minority compared to the Tarkhans and Lohars in Kenya be able to take over the Gurdwaras there. The Basic fact is that Ramgarhias despite their small numbers want a big piece of the pie. What's wrong with the majority controlling the Gurdwaras? If Ramgarhias built their gurdwaras then the only way they can bypass a non-Ramgarhia becoming Pardhan is to restrict their sangat to just Ramgarhias..hardly in line with Gurmat. The Ramgarhias just like the Jats want to lord over everyone other Sikh but whereas Jats have the numbers to make that a reality under democratic process the Ramgarhias who don't have the numbers have to set up an anti-Gurmat constitution in their Gurdwaras to achieve this end.

A guy who deals with the Indian consulate getting visas told me it about £14 to surrender your passport provided you have not travelled on it since you obtained british citizenship. There's a form you need to fill in and you also have to show them a copy of your naturalisation certificate. This was also what my brother was told when he enquired last year.

I agree with S1ngh. It's a cultural thing and not aggressive as it can be perceived in the west. I remember when I first went to India in the late 80s I used to get quite annoyed over the stares but nowadays I understand that it's just cultural. Best thing to do it either ignore it or just say 'kiddah' and the other person will respond 99% of the time. On a similar note, Singhs born in the UK usually hardly ever respond to other Singhs they meet during the day. I remember a friend of mine who was a Singh and whenever he used to go on the tube he used to notice that if there was a another Singh in the carriage that Singh would usually ignore him or look the other way almost like he was embarrassed that there was another Singh in the carriage. He used to make a point of shouting across the carriage full of goray 'OI KIDDAH!! and run up to the guy as if he was his long lost brother or something! He used to tell me how the other Singh would turn red in embarrassment! His idea was that the next time that Singh saw a fellow Singh on the tube he would probably be more likely to acknowledge him and say fateh!

Let's not get into the meat or no meat debate here. The fact is that these muslay cooked halal meat on Gurdwara premises.

Yeah and today's date is 02-05-2011 or 2x5-(2+(1+1)) = 6! lol!

The video is available here

It was a clock tower that resembled a church. It was taken down after Independence. With regard to Christian activities after the annexation of Punjab, it was flooded with missionaries and even a bunga near the Durbar sahib was used for christian activities. These were stopped around the time of the Akali movement.

That was a massive own goal by the WSO for which they need to be taken to task. Unfortunately every fool with a political axe to grind seems to want to bring Sikhi into everything. Whether it's Guramit Singh of EDL, the Turban awareness nutters and their 'Sikhs against the EDL' they do not see that they have no authority to talk on behalf of the Sikhs. WSO and it's meddling in the niqab issue has now single handedly put the right to wear a Kirpan back many years.

I support the ban. It's not a case of whether one feels threatened or uncomfortable with some veiled women walking around. The fact of the matter is that they wear the burka because they see all men as potential rapists! They believe that if a man sees their face or part of their face that man will not have any self control and attempt to rape them! This is the primitive notion that they have brought to the west.

I think the Hitler comparison is half correct. Hitler was not a Jew murdering fellow Jews on behalf of non-Jews. Manmohan Singh is probably worse, he is a quisling, a person who is willing to have the state deny justice to his own people just so that he can enjoy political power. It is interesting that you keep defending Manmohan Singh for his economic achievements, so tell me how many Sikh lives are worth a prosperous and economically powerful India?

I posted this on the heavily moderated Turban Campaign website. I don't think they will allow it as like all left wing liberal nutjobs they never want to read an alternative viewpoint. It was funny in that clip when Balwinder Singh Rana claimed that 'murder is nothing compared to what Guramit Singh is doing!' What a total <banned word filter activated>! I don’t see any difference between Balwinder Singh Rana and Guramit Singh. Both are using their religion to further their political ends. What authority does Mr Rana have to go to anti-EDL marches with banners stating ‘Sikhs against EDL’ Isn’t he doing the same thing as Guramit Singh. Infact he is doing worse than Guramit Singh because as far as I am aware Guramit Singh does not claim to represent Sikhs! But Balwinder Singh and his anti-EDL banners do! If Balwinder Singh Rana has issues with Guramit Singh he should have approached the local Gurdwara where Guramit Singh lives and invite him there with other Sikhs in attendance and given the evidence that Guramit Singh claiming to represent all Sikhs and then discuss the issue with him. But like all politicians he turns this into a big issue and a creates a big ruckus and yet he has ZERO knowledge of Sikhi in this regard. How can a non-Amritdhari be excommunicated by the Akal Takht? I suggest Mr Rana read up on Sikhi as he is creating a non-issue here. He and his left wing liberal friends will get laughed out of Amritsar! Only an Amritdhari because he has taken to living his life according to the rehat maryada can be declared Tankahia. I suggest Mr Rana look up all these words which I guess are unfamiliar to him and then think about what he is trying to do.

Reminds me of when I broke my leg playing football in the summer of 1997. I was at home for over 2 months. I spent most of my time watching TV or reading. After a while you do get into a routine and start to look forward to the best parts of your day. At the time I didn't have internet access at home so spent the day watching TV or reading. Watched all the Quincy ME episodes! It's a good time to catch up on reading the books you always wanted to read but never had the time. You got a lot of time on your hands, how about learning another language?

You might be right but some people have a vested interest in promoting the nakammah leader of their choice. It sometimes boils down to what caste or background that leader is. When Zail Singh was president all the Tarkhans were his avid supporters even after 1984. MS's main appeal is to urban khatri/arora Sikhs.

Manmohan Singh is a true hypocrite trying to hoodwink the people with his 'mr clean' credentials when it's obvious he's as dodgy as any other Indian leader! I bet he has millions siphoned away in some foreign bank accounts as well. What's happened to Hsisingh? He was MS's main cheerleader here.

I've heard and read all sorts of excuses as to why Santa Singh acted as a puppet of Indira Gandhi in 1984 by rebuilding the Akal Takht-; 1. The Panth was disunited and Indira would have started a bigger massacre if he hadn't stepped in 2. The Akalis had not taken the Nihangs into their confidence and hence Santa Singh was unaware of what the Akali plans were for the Panth. 3. On one pro-Nihang blog I have read that Santa Singh was threatened by Indira Gandhi in 1984 against holding a Mohalla in Dehli and he is supposed to have told her that the Nihang are also and army..blah blah blah yet a few months later he was her puppet! This site doesn't even mention his gadari http://www.nihangsingh.org/website/war-santa.html

Just as there is an attempt by Nihangs to downplay the betrayal of Santa Singh in 1984, it seems there's an attempt now to make a gaddar like Longowal into an astute politician! Sometimes things can be black and white and it doesn't always have to be complicated. Longowal wasn't really astute. Firstly he was a coward because he made a vow that the Indian army would have to step over his dead body if they attacked the Harmandir Sahib. He quickly and meekly surrendered whilst thousands of Sikhs both Kharkoos and pilgrims were martyred. Tohra also made the same pledge and surrendered. Secondly, he made a declaration that his party would stop the movement of foodgrains from Punjab to the rest of India. This gave Indira Gandhi the excuse to attack. There is likely to have been a deal done with Longowal and Indira Gandhi as Longowal was losing all his support base to Sant Bhindranwale. After the attack he was released from jail and then made provocative statements to make himself appear to be in favour of Khalistan. All the while he was arranging secret meetings with the same government that has murdered tens of thousands of Sikhs all over India after Indira Gandhi's assassination. This was time when the Sikhs were united and he made sure that he would able to split the Sikhs into so-called moderates and extremists. He did this by signing the Punjab accord with Rajiv Gandhi for which he had no prior authorisation either from the Akali Dal or from the Sikh nation. In any case the majority of Sikhs at that time were with the United Akali Dal under Baba Joginder Singh (the father of Sant Bhindranwale). His Akali Dal party had been discredited so what right did he have to claim to represent the Sikhs? When he signed the Punjab accord he accepted a ladoo from the hands of Rajiv Gandhi, the same hand that had the blood of thousands of Sikhs on it.

Yes, it was at the UN. Don't forget that he has never taken action against the MPs from his party who have been accused of taking part in the Sikh genocide such as Tytler. Rather than taking action he made Tytler into a minister in his government. But according to people like Hsisingh we shouldn't criticise him because he created an economic miracle in India!

It's so easy to pull the achievement card out. So does that mean that no prime minister or president should be criticised? That would be news to many people in the media. I hope you have written to all the TV channels and newspapers criticising them for criticising Obama or before him Bush. or do you only use the achievement card here? Some facts about MS 1. Two of his daughters are married to Hindus. Was MS too busy with his economic miracle to worry about what his daughters were up to? He might be a great PM but as a Sikh he fails miserably. I would class him more as a Keshdhari Hindu than as a Sikh. It is a measure of how far Sikhs have fallen that a non-entity in Sikh terms has been elevated to become as some sort of ideal Sikh. 2. His wife showed more emotion with his losing a election than about her own relative who was killed in the 84 genocide. The clean image of the couple is a myth, they are of the same vein as the Badals. 3. He stated in 1994 that the Sikhs had faced no human rights violations in India. This was the time that thousands of Sikh youths were killed in fake encounters. Maybe you think the economic future of India is more important that a few thousand Sikh lives extinguished by the party that MS was then representing. 4. Hypocrisy runs in his family. One of his daughters works for ACLU on human rights abuse cases in the USA!

One thing everyone has to realise is that there has been no significant propagation of Khalistan in Punjab for the last 18 years or so. These Freshies you see now dancing in the streets because of an Indian victory is because they were kids or not even born during the crucial years of 1981-1992. India has made sure that the children are brainwashed through the Indian education system. A big fuss is made of republic day and independence day as well as M K Gandhi's birthday. Is it any wonder that these freshies support India. We Sikhs in the west cannot counter the brainwashing that happens in the education system in India but what we can do is to re-educate the ones who have come here. I don't know why people have such a negative view of Freshies. It is because we have had such an influx of Freshies that Southall hasn't become a majority Muslim town. Whatever you might think of them at least they are not like the Somali leaches who have ten kids and the husband pretends to be separated from the wife so that they both get a flat each and more benefits! The Freshies can't claim benefits and work for a living. A lot of them get taken advantage off by apnay who give them jobs at £3 an hour! Even then a lot of still do a honest day's work and don't leach off the state. If you want to stop the celebrations of an Indian victory by apnay from India the thing to do is to educate them. If you speak to them you will realise that most don't even know much about what the Panth went through in the 80s and some that do have been totally brainwashed into believing that the Kharkoos were terrorists. If you look at what the generation before these guys were like you will see how successful the indian govt propaganda has been. We have even failed in educating the youth born in this country about what India did to us. It is only some families whose children know what happened in the 80s, most youth get enlightened by the internet websites, forums and youtube videos.

If you watch the video carefully, the Sikh officer is the bas*ard who says 'Pagh dhahlai ehdi' (knock off his pagh) the other <banned word filter activated> in the red pagh who is also holding the guy says 'Pagh lah leh' (take his pagh off) The original bas*ard later barks 'Bathah gaddi'ch'(sit him in the vehicle)

This is an interesting discussion and one that should be a cause for concern for all Sikhs. Nothing is guaranteed in life, no one can know whether their children will end up as Gursikhs or Manmukhs but that shouldn't stop us from having more children. It is generally accepted that having 2 children is the replacement level of a population group which means that if all married Sikh couples have 2 children each then the Sikh population will remain static and not increase. Less than 2 children and the population will actually decrease. This is the case in most European countries where their populations are decreasing. In the UK the population has only increased because of the large number of immigrants from eastern Europe and from other parts of the world. You need a genocide to destroy a people nowadays, just promote contraception and make a less than 2 children the norm. In our parents generation 4-6 children were the norm, In fact out of 4 uncles in my family, 1 did not marry, 2 had 8 children each and one had 3 children. That's an average of 4.75 which will double the population every 40 years. This is the one of the reasons, the other being through conversion why the Sikh population before 1947 always increased by a higher percentage than the Hindus and even the Muslims! Apart from 1951 when the Sikh losses suffered during the partition showed that the Sikh population increased by a small percentage the Sikh population up to 2001 always increased by more than the Hindu population. I remember that in the late 80s the Kharkoos during their Samaj Sudhar movement banned the use of contraceptions and urged Sikhs to have more children. This is probably one of the reasons that the Sikh population increased from 60.19% of the total population of Punjab in 1981 to 62.95% in 1991. After the time the Sikh population has decreased to 59.95% due to outmigration by Sikhs, inmigration by non-Sikhs and the preference for smaller families. Sikh organisations should be actively encouraging Sikhs to have more children. Apart from the natural increase, there is great scope to increase the Sikh population through conversion. SewadaarEKhalsa has given information about the different tribal groups who have a tendency to veer towards Sikhi. There are already a number of organisations that work with these groups but there is scope for their activities to be increased. A good site giving information on these groups is-; http://www.forgottensikhs.com/

I went on Turkmenistan Airlines for the first time in 2006. You are right about there being no entertainment but the flight was on time and it is only about 5 hours to Ashkabad and then an hour for refueling and about 2 hours to Amritsar. The convenience ourweights the lack of entertainment. Most people nowadays aren't really interested in the inflight entertainment, because many have PSPs, portable DVD players etc. The convenience of landing in Amritsar far outweights any of the negatives of not having inflight entertainment.

Sikh Missionary Society U.K. (Regd.) 10, Featherstone Road. Southall, Middx, U.K. UB2 5AA Tel: +44 020 8574 1902 Fax: +44 020 8574 1912 Email: info@sikhmissionarysociety.org Reg. Charity No: 262404 website http://www.gurmat.info/sms/smssikhism/