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Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

jagjit_waheguru jee... u just sort of proved all our points .. what u said states that we SHOULD have a separate thread on jattha's.. .just as like u said Akaal 108 was incorrect in his post... if in fact, if those are misconceptions, they are just like the misconceptions that both youth and adults alike have today about jattha's.. tha's why i's better to educate ourselves as well as our younger brother and sisters and even our elders about this stuff... no?? like get everything out there so we KNOW what these institutions teach and stress on our youth... and sometimes people mite post false statements w/out knowing that facts, i mean thats all good if i's not meant purposely to stir controversy... nobody's tryin to start any jattha' bashing... and since people DO have false facts, it is our job to clarify and present correct facts so there's no disrespect/nindya of any of this panthic jattha's..... and it's important that people know that these jattha's are all SIKH jattha's... it has nothing to do with caste... like i said in one of my above posts.. they're just like insititutions/classes that we need to take in high school to get our diploma, it is important that we know what each of them teach and it's important that we learn from each of them as well... well tha's just my opinion...

Vaheguru Jee ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

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Guest Akaal108

Bijla Singh, its your own ignorance that you think nirmaley dont take amrit.

Nirmaley are all amrit-dharis..all 5 singhs who were sent to kansi by siri guroo gobind singh did took amrit..

check your facts before posting misinformation.

also

i ll reply jagjit post with the references...

so stay tuned.

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Guest Akaal108
Sant Attar Singh was associated with Panch khalsa diwan, and was always panthik. He was not a nirmala. His Akal Academies strict follow Akal Thakht rehit maryada.
Sant baba Attar Singh Mustaneywaley was a nirmalla was based on this

"Sant Atar Singh of Mastuana, the most charismatic figure in latter-day Sikh piety, was born on 13 March 1866 in the village of Chima, in Sangrur district of the Punjab. His father, Karam Singh, was a farmer of modest means and could not afford to send him to a school in town. So Atar Singh was apprenticed to Bhai Buta Singh, head of the Nirmala dera or monastery of Bhai Ram Singh, in his own village. He acquired proficiency in the Sikh religious texts and also read philosophical treatises such as the Vichar Sagar. Side by side with his progress in Sikh learning, he developed a deeply religious cast of mind. "

http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org/People/AtarSant.htm

You can be nirmala and still be associated with panch khalsa divan just like how Akali Kaur Singh was a budda dal Nihang and member of sgpc.

Bhai Veer Singh as not associated with any Taksal, but Chief khalsa diwan. I believe he had a Khalsa Samachar newspaper. 

Bhai Veer Singh and Sant baba gurbachan singh ji khalsa bhindranvaley were both affilated with taksal...difference one was affilated with bhai mani singh taksal and other was affilated with Damdami Taksal...both started by beloved dasmeh patsha Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Again i m not denying that he was affilated with cheif khalsa divan ..he could have very much since its not unsual to have more than links with groups, sampardha, orgs.

Your statement - "Bhai Dya Singh Ji one of panj pyares was also Nihang and Nirmala" is really insulting. He one was of the Panj Payres, he gave his head only to Guru ji. He was just a Guru ka Sikh on the ultimate level.
what's soo insulting about my statement?? I didn't deny the fact ultimate he gave his head to Guru Ji..all i said he was affilated with nirmaley not only that the fact is even now day- one such nirmaley sampardha called "Bhai Dya Singh Sampardha" which still exist today see- http://www.rarasahib.com/sg.htm for more information.

All Nirmalay itihasik granths explain how the panj nirmalay were sent to kashi, then returned. They were then put under the supervision of both Bhai Dya Singh and Bhai Dharam Singh who were then trained as Nirmalay also - from these two begin the nirmala upsamprdahs

Also on a side note, udasi are sikhs...damdami taksal which are highly consider an most panthik group consider them sikhs ... listen to 1st or 2nd file of sukhmani sahib of gyani thakur singh ji of patiala ..you be suprised how much upma he does of udasi as sikhs ..not only that...

Akaaal takth under control of sgpc says they are sikhs:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021210/main7.htm

He has in his usually fashion just linked anyone he pleases to his own misguided views of sampardayas.

A benti - Can moderators ensure false statements, or anti-pathick polocies are not allowed to misguide youth on this Forum.

jagjit , i still owe you proof of sant singh maskin links with nirmaley..so stay tuned...

regaring your claims above....this is to be noted without any reason....he called everything that didnt fit in his narrow view of sikhism as "anti panthik".

how's this for anti-panthic...your favourite gurmukh baba attar singh ji in his "Sat Chit Anand Saroop" having an pose with no kirpan..so much soo much soo his support to tat khalsa maryada..

babaattarsinghmastuanawallay.jpg

last one question- why people feel soo insecure of existance of sikh sampardha's especially- udasi, nirmaley...i wonder if such people even had a discussion with nirmala or udasi in their real life. rolleyes.gif ..

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what is the big deal if dfferent ppl have different opinions on jatha? THe problem isnt having different opinions, the problem is when people are classified and stereotyped as members of a particular jatha/sampardama. A thread made on this topic will just increase the amount of stereotyping that already happens.

Even if a thread is made talking about different jatha, not everyone will agree on what is said, as a lot of history is open to interpretation, for example, just compare akaal108 and jagjit_waheguru's posts. For a post made by a moderator/admin or jatha and their beliefs and history, who will moderate the moderator? Everyone already has their own bias, and not everyone that is educated about the different jathai will agree on it.

For example, DDT, if you write a thread about DDT, some people will say that it was started by Guru Gobind SIngh Ji, others will say Sant SUndar SIngh Ji started it. How will everybody be happy about the info being put out by this thread?

Any way you put it, it wont work.

If you want to learn about different jathai, do your own research, ask people that are part of the jathai, ask people about a jathai they dont belong to, compare different peoples views, do your own research, adnd than if u must, decide on something urself.

But dont cause even more rukus than there already is

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Bijla Singh, its your own ignorance that you think nirmaley dont take amrit.

yup, I am an ignorant person but you are smart so enlighten me on how Siri Chand is a "Mahraaj" and how udasis are Sikhs? Do they take Amrit? what are their sects or groups today? where are they located? provide some info. thanks.

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bijla singh...

i think you should check out the link that akaal veer ji provided...

also on that note....although, i consider udasis as part of the panth...i have heard that later on they got influenced by hinduism and were having murtis in the gurdwaras...

even taksal affirms this fact...but they still respect the udasis as an order, but will also tell you that some of them have gone off track and arent doing correct prachar....

akaal veerji can you comment on that?

thanks

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Guest Akaal108

Bijla Singh,

wait a minute are you talking about udasi or nirmaley... Nirmaley order do take amrit ... do you know difference between them?? if not .. here is how they started.

1 Nirmaley- This order was started by Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji when five Amrit Dhari Singhs were send out to kansi to study scriptures, languages to perserve shaaaaaaastar(scholarship/vidhvaans) and to give slap to twisted pandits.

2. Udasi- This order was started by Baba Siri Chand Singh Maharaj who was a bhramgyani later in his life ... so please don't use stories like he didn't listen to Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji....eventually he did realize his mistake just like how 40 mokte's realize their mistakes...udasi do take amrit as well but they take charan amrit from their successcors... regardless of whole argument of khanda da amrit vs charan amrit debate... at the end they get naam di dat from their udasi sants and they get to sachkhand too just like khalsa sikhs ...

JSS,

you are very right there..

I am not even for a single bit denying all the manmat activities done by udasi and nirmale mahants...there are still some pratices performed by nirmaley and udasi are not very gurmat based..as you see no jatha, sampardha is 100 perfect... perfect is only and only GURU.... but we can't reject the full order just by that logic..

I just want people to see that whole panth does *NOT* ends at AKJ or Taksaaal... there are many many gurmukhs related with other orders(sampardha)/jatha which were ignored.

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actually its sad that people cant speak about other jathas without arguing...... its one kaum, one khalsa....... why cant we understand each other instead of trying to prentend like its not there?

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