Something I Was Thinking..

[Jaspaul Singh]

[shaheed,Mar 8 2005, 08:16 PM]

ok for those of you who are from toronto, they all know why i think lil kids can't handle it......ppl get labels......yo that guy took amrit from taksal but goes to AKJ programs, or Dum Dumy Taksal wannabe's and of course the daily jokes on tapoban..this is what we gotta avoid

Singh.. do you think if we dont tell them they will not still do that ???

I think if you really think about it ... thinkg hard.. i think it will benefit MORE rather than not anyone at all...

... so in my thinking if we at least tell them about them no one would be spreading false stuff...

THEREFORE, its better to educate them, rather than to stay quiet !

[Guest Sony]

but why do we even have these jatha's? are we not supposed to have just one rehat maryadha? the truth its not like that. and these things are out there. what if someone is taught just one thing, and they dont know about the other maryadhas, what if what they are taught is not what sikhi is about. this may help them. besides, like i said i would love to get more information on the jathas, and maybe we can use this as a chance to tell people that in the end, the people who belong to these jathas are all part of the same panth. instead of seeing people arguing all the time, put up the positive and negative points, put up what they believe and why, and then put up the maryadha that is in place by the Akal Takhat. if these jathas do exist then isnt it better to know about them. ur going by, what u dont know cant hurt you, and thats not always the right way to do it. Sikhi isnt about blind faith. its about understanding. The way of Sikhi is so practicle that u dont need to follow it blindly like u do in some other religions, so why be afraid? teach our children, yes there are people who believe this, and believe that.. this is what we need to do. parents will tell their children what they believe, friends will tell them, they will find out online or however else. they may get wrong info.

do this together as a sangat, not to show that their jatha is better but a way to inform people of the maryadha that you speak about. and if the sangat cant get together to do that without arguing or putting someone else down then.... well thats just sad....

i think it would be a good idea to post it. remember its not blind faith we are teaching them. its a practical way of living. its our guru ji's love. people see it in different ways and interpret it in different ways, i would want to learn from others maybe something that i have missed or have not been taught.

pul chuk maaf

Fateh

[Princess]

Lets try to think of this from another persons view...

Someone who is TOTALLY NEW to sikhi... and who has no clues of what these jathas are... they can simply believe that these can be just cults ! Why shouldnt they because of how the western world potrays these movements within religions are as new religious movements who may or may not spread the same message but in a different context ... following ?

Sangat has to lay out the information to them, just BASIC information of how they originated, what they believe in .. etc... instead of them going to some random person and asking them about their history...

88152[/snapback]

I totally agree :TH: I honestly didn't know what 'Jatha's' were until I came to University and took an into to Sikhism course where I pretty much got the idea that AKJ, naamdharis, radhosoamis, etc are 'sects' of Sikhism and are not part of the main Paanth I guess you can say. It would be nice to have information provided to those of us who don't know much about different Jathas because that would clear most misunderstandings that most youth have today about different Jathas. The biggest misunderstanding being that these Jathas are not part of the normal Paanth and they are 'sects'.

Just my opinion

Oh and also, it should be a thread in which different Jathas can post their own information about their Jatha (and not criticizing or views about other Jatha groups).

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh <_<

[Guest Akaal108]

In my opnion,

Akaal Takth represent "Guru Khalsa Panth"

and what represent "Guru Khalsa Panth" is sampardha( 5 orders - Nirmaley, Taksal, Nihangs, Sevapanthis, Udasi's) who are still within gurmat and they were once started by Guru Maharaj themselves..also with jatha's that are alinged with Gurmat.

all these petty jatha fights exist only in forgein land where person ego's or their personal vedentta has to do everything not what jatha they belong...person manages to use jatha as its scapegoat or hide his real intentions behind this conflict.

If we go to india... sikhs affialted sampardha/jatha go along well with each other.. its just forgein lands especially - england things are getting worse day by day.

Lets take few great of many well know diamonds in the panth and their affilations with the sikh sampardha (orders)

- Bhai Dya Singh Ji one of panj pyares was also Nihang and Nirmala.

- Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed (affilated both with Nirmaley and Nihang Sampardha).

- Baba Siri Chand Maharaj affilated with Udasi sampardha

- Baba Ghaniya Ji affilated with sevapanthi order.

- Baba Sahib Singh bedi affilated with both Nihang and Nirmala order.

- Bhai Veer Singh Ji affilated with "Bhai Mani Singh Taksal"

- Sant baba Gurbachan Singh Ji along with Sant Kartar & Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranvale affilated with damdami taksal.

- Raj Jogi "Sant baba Attar Singh Ji Mustaneywaley affilated with nirmaley samparda

- Sant baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj affilated with Nirmaley sampardha

- Nihang Sant baba Nihal Singh Ji with Tarna Dal(Nihang order)

- Jathedar Nihang Baba Chet Singh Ji with Budda dal (Nihang Order)

- Gian Gyan Singh with Nirmaley Sampardha

- Kathavachik Sant Singh Maskin affialted with Nirmaley Sampardha

- Jathavachik Gyani Thakur SIngh of patiala affilated with damdami Taksal

and thousands more...

if you thinkin for one second of ignoring the existence of sampardha and jatha..then you ignoring contributions of jewels of the panth as well because of their direct affilations .. not saying they were fully addictive with sampardha, jatha and so on and so on forth but saying they have kept it balance...

if we think such sampardha or jatha don't exist then we end up absouletely nothing at all in the Sikh Panth

Sikh Sampardha(orders) and jatha alinged with gurmat are back bone of Guru Khalsa panth (Akaal Takth).

[Shaheed]

there is no fight over false info being spread, ppl know the truth and are trying to convert e/o.....

all this is doing is adding flame to the fire

[Akaali]

One Guru Granth

One Khalsa Panth

As Akaal outlined, the problem exists in the west between certain 'GROUPS' in the west. In India its fine because they understand the above concept.

Its punjabi mentality when Sikhs try to label each other on their rehat or their bana, or where they took amrit. The core beleif is still the one above.

By making a specific thread on certain Jathebandis YOU ARE ADDING FUEL to the fire. I know for beginners they won't see anything wrong with it, but for us being grown up with this fuss between jathes it gives us a doorway to re-affirm our own rehat and fight over what is right and wrong.

EVEN if you do create a resource for reference, maybe someone from a jatha may not like what you wrote and may want to add things to make it sound better over the other.

THAT'S WHY, the FOCUS and ATTENTION should be on the core concept listed above.

My two cents.

[Heera Singh]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

actually in my humble opinion these dayz in the west i.e. canada, U.S. things are actually getting better... like in toronto i's not as bad as it used to be.. i's come a long way and things are on the right path.. we have youth from different jattha's attending programs and associating with youth from other jattha's and stuff.. and tha's a HUGE step... nowadayz, it seems that there's not much 'beef' between the youth, but i's jes plain ignorance between the adults... our elders tell us that 'this jattha does that, they're wrong... that jattha does that... don't go there.. stick to 'our' sangat... ' etc... not only is that ignorant, tha's nindya... we ALL need to RESPECT every jattha... even if we don't agree with a couple of things that they believe or do... but tha's the beauty of having jattha's, u see different perspectives and learn different thingss... but like a few of us stated above they're all just schools/institutions for us to learn... our main goal is to reach Guru Jee... so in the end we're all SIKH... <_< ...

like I said i's getting a lot better.. and as time goes on i hope it will only benefit sikhi... i see a bright road ahead... maybe one day we'll all recognize eachother as being apart of the Panth and as being GURSIKHS.... no as being 'akj' or 'taksali' or 'tapoban' etc...

and the old sayin is very tru.. 'united we stand, divided we fall'....

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh...!!!!!!

[anjaan]

and the old sayin is very tru.. 'united we stand, divided we fall'....

88256[/snapback]

hear hear! :wub: <_<

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, I personally would not advise it. It is like educating someone about caste, many will accept the stereotypes.

After being involved with many of these groups for many years, I know in the core of each are hardcore Panthik Gursikhs.

Already on this thread there are some misconceptions. Princess has listed AKJ with Radhasomies. This is very wrong, especially when we have so many of these Singhs shaheed for the Panth. AKJ is a purely Gurbani based jatha.

AKaal 108, who, correct my if I am wroong, is the moderator of sikh awareness. He has in his usually fashion just linked anyone he pleases to his own misguided views of sampardayas.

My family personally knew Sant Singh Maskin very well, over many years. He was never a Niramala, and actually dispised many of these Hinduised groups. He openly criticized them all in his katha using his extensive knowledge of gurbani and hindu mythology. He had his own schools, and the only group he was close to was Sikh Missionary. He openly criticized sants for not accepting Akal Thakht maryada.

Sant Attar Singh was associated with Panch khalsa diwan, and was always panthik. He was not a nirmala. His Akal Academies strict follow Akal Thakht rehit maryada.

Bhai Veer Singh as not associated with any Taksal, but Chief khalsa diwan. I believe he had a Khalsa Samachar newspaper.

Your statement - "Bhai Dya Singh Ji one of panj pyares was also Nihang and Nirmala" is really insulting. He one was of the Panj Payres, he gave his head only to Guru ji. He was just a Guru ka Sikh on the ultimate level.

In conclusion, everyone should stop joining people to groups, especially falsely as above. They all recognised the race as One, A Khalsa Panth. We should see them only as Singhs of that Khalsa Panth.

A benti - Can moderators ensure false statements, or anti-pathick polocies are not allowed to misguide youth on this Forum. The proliferation of non-khalsa rehit sampardaism is against Gurmat. "Rehat pyare muj ko, Sikh payare Nahin." Sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev ji chose Sahib Siri Guru Angad dev Ji, not Siri Chand, so why are we not following Guru jis example.

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

[Bijla Singh]

Anyone who doesn't take Amrit cannot be called a Sikh. Therefore, all these udasis, nirmalas etc. are not even Sikhs let alone being the "backbone" of Khalsa Panth. Only Gurbani is the backbone and major source of power of Khalsa Panth. If we don't have this, you can have all the jathas in the world it will not do any good. These so called "backbones" are still in Punjab but Sikhi is going down everyday whereas in western countries we see people who embrace Sikhi. So we are better off without these jathas. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh