Contradicting Gurbani? Discussion

[Bijla Singh]

I am starting this topic because in my last discussion many people found my posts to be not pro-Sikhi. According to them I was not doing what Gurbani tells us to do. I am not mad or anything but I have taken their points into consideration and decided to start this topic to discuss Gurbani topics. I know you might say you don’t have enough knowledge but we are here to learn from each other. How else will we learn about Gurbani if we don’t start discussing it? Mostly people like to reply to fun posts or criticize others by saying “this is not Sikhi” but why do they back down when it comes to discussing Gurbani? I urge everyone to join in but please stay within the scope of Gurani.

What I would like to discuss is that Gurbani does not contradict itself. Whatever is written in Gurbani is fully supported by Bhai Gurdas Ji and Dasam Bani. Many times, people take one or two lines and think that they understand the meanings but what they don’t realize is that they might be taking Shabads out of context. Under what circumstances was the Shabad written in, what is being said, who is it being said to are the few things we should consider before quoting Gurbani.

Here are few examples:

sloku mÚ 1 ]

Shalok, First Mehl:

kUVu rwjw kUVu prjw kUVu sBu sMswru ]

koorr raajaa koorr parajaa koorr sabh sa(n)saar ||

False is the king, false are the subjects; false is the whole world.

Now look at the following panktees.

mhlw 2 ]

Second Mehl:

iehu jgu scY kI hY koTVI scy kw ivic vwsu ]

eihu jag sachai kee hai kot(h)arree sachae kaa vich vaas ||

This world is the room of the True Lord; within it is the dwelling of the True Lord.

If you only look at the above two lines and compare them with each other you would think that Gurbani is contradicting itself. On one side Guru Ji called this world “Koor” and “false” but on the other hand He says this world is “Room of True Lord”. Look at some more.

mn Kuthr qyrw nhI ibswsu qU mhw audmwdw ]

man khuttehar thaeraa nehee bisaas thoo mehaa oudhamaadhaa ||

O vicious mind, no faith can be placed in you; you are totally intoxicated.

mn qUM joiq srUpu hY Awpxw mUlu pCwxu ]

man thoo(n) joth saroop hai aapanaa mool pashhaan ||

O my mind, you are the embodiment of the Divine Light - recognize your own origin.

You see how Guru Ji called mind “vicious” and the “embodiment of the Divine Light”.

We will have to look at the whole Shabad to determine what really is being said here. Professor Sahib Singh thinks Gurbani is written according to nature. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji thinks it is written according to spirituality. Some think it is written in a form of question/answer. Some do meanings according to grammar and some according to spiritual stage. This is the greatness of Gurbani. No one is wrong, just different opinions. It is all about realizing the Truth. Waheguru is infinite and so are the ways to reach Him. In Gurmat you will find numerous ways to reach Waheguru. Just in Barah Maha there are twelve different ways Guru Ji has given us but the beauty of it is that none of the ways contradict with each other.

Going back to the first example. The first Shabad has a very specific meaning. In this Shabad Guru Ji is calling everything false but why? Let’s look at the last lines of this Shabad.

nwnku vKwxY bynqI quDu bwJu kUVo kUVu ]1]

naanak vakhaanai baenathee thudhh baajh koorro koorr ||1||

Nanak speaks this prayer: without You, Lord, everything is totally false. ||1||

Hopefully now it should be clear to you. Everything without the true name is false. People call this world false on the basis that this world is like a dream but Guru Ji disagrees by saying that everything without the name of Waheguru is false. Once you find the eyes to see Waheguru in each and every person you will realize that

mhlw 2 ]

mehalaa 2 ||

Second Mehl:

iehu jgu scY kI hY koTVI scy kw ivic vwsu ]

eihu jag sachai kee hai kot(h)arree sachae kaa vich vaas ||

This world is the room of the True Lord; within it is the dwelling of the True Lord.

Voila. Only when you have obtained Naam Simran kamayee, only when you have obtained those eyes to see the Waheguru you will realize that Waheguru is “Ghat Meh” meaning deep within yourself. This is why Guru Ji told Khalsa (tyar bar tyar true Khalsa) to stand in front of the mirror to have His darshan because Guru (Waheguru Roop) is not out in the jungles but within your heart. The context of these two Shabads is different. If we will look at the panktees, we would think that Gurbani speaking against itself but it is not true.

So to summarize the above, once you realize the truth and see Waheguru everywhere. You will find Saccha Paathshah in His Sacchi Paathshahi. Existence of True Waheguru makes this world is true.

I would request others to join in and discuss the 2nd example. This will show how much we really care about Sikhi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Guest Akaal108]

how can i download gurbani font on this forum?

anyone help please :TH:

[singh_khalsa]

the universal gurbani is universal, gurbani is a message for everyone.

In SIMPLE TERMS:

The first line is telling us about this maya and false it is, the 2nd line tells us that the only thing which is true is the lord, who created this world.

The 2nd example has 2 lines:

the 1st is obviously for manmukhs whose mind is controlled by the evil of this world, punj chor etc.

The 2nd like is for the gurmukh who has control over his mind and only the gurmukh can truly understand this meaning.

[Harjit_S_Banga]

I am very much like a new born to Sikhi. I am exploring and learning but would stick with the thread and follow to learn from you GURSIKHS.

Stay in Chardikalaaaaa!!!!!!

[`KuMi´]

You cant just look at the lines itself you need to lok at the whole pooree, beacuse O vicious mind,might be saying in teh pooree how much maya is in the body andmind, and the light one might be prasie the mind and body for doing well

das my viewwwzzzzzzz

nuff luv

[Bijla Singh]

Then I think you should explain in details so we can understand better. Look at the whole shabad and tell us what you think. Those who don't know how to type in Gurmukhi, just copy the text and select any font. after the code appears just replace the font name with gurbaniwebthick and it should appear in Gurmukhi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Bijla Singh]

To emphasize this point further I give you some examples to show how closely the following Gurus supported Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Not only the meanings are the same but even grammar shows many similarities. Guru Amardas Ji and Guru Raamdas Ji's Bani isn't any different. Many Shabads can be found that are very similar. Read the following Shabads. Just to make my point I am only giving Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Angad Dev Ji's Bani. Black color is of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and blue color is of Guru Angad Dev Ji's Gurbani. If anyone wishes to see similarities between other Gurus's Bani then let me know.

BuiKAw BuK n auqrI jy bMnw purIAw Bwr ]

bhukhiaa bhukh n outharee jae ba(n)naa pureeaa bhaar ||

The hunger of the hungry is not appeased, even by piling up loads of worldly goods.

BuiKAw BuK n auqrY glI BuK n jwie ]

bhukhiaa bhukh n outharai galee bhukh n jaae ||

The hunger of the hungry is not appeased; by mere words, hunger is not relieved.

krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ]

karamee aavai kaparraa nadharee mokh dhuaar ||

By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]4]

naanak eaevai jaaneeai sabh aapae sachiaar ||4||

O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4||

duhw isirAw Awpy Ksmu vyKY kir ivaupwie ]

dhuhaa siriaa aapae khasam vaekhai kar vioupaae ||

He Himself is the Lord and Master of both worlds. He beholds all and makes the exact determination.

nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sB ikCu iqsih rjwie ]1]

naanak eaevai jaaneeai sabh kishh thisehi rajaae ||1||

O Nanak, know this well: everything is in accordance with His Will. ||1||

cwkru lgY cwkrI jy clY KsmY Bwie ]

chaakar lagai chaakaree jae chalai khasamai bhaae ||

If a servant, performing service, obeys the Will of his Master,

hurmiq iqs no AglI Ehu vjhu iB dUxw Kwie ]

huramath this no agalee ouhu vajahu bh dhoonaa khaae ||

his honor increases, and he receives double his wages.

cwkru lgY cwkrI nwly gwrbu vwdu ]

chaakar lagai chaakaree naalae gaarab vaadh ||

If a servant performs service, while being vain and argumentative,

glw kry GxyrIAw Ksm n pwey swdu ]

galaa karae ghanaereeaa khasam n paaeae saadh ||

he may talk as much as he wants, but he shall not be pleasing to his Master.

pihl bsMqY Awgmin pihlw mauilE soie ]

pehil basa(n)thai aagaman pehilaa mouliou soe ||

Spring brings forth the first blossoms, but the Lord blossoms earlier still.

ijqu mauilAY sB maulIAY iqsih n mauilhu koie ]1]

jith mouliai sabh mouleeai thisehi n moulihu koe ||1||

By His blossoming, everything blossoms; no one else causes Him to blossom forth. ||1||

pihl bsMqY Awgmin iqs kw krhu bIcwru ]

pehil basa(n)thai aagaman this kaa karahu beechaar ||

He blossoms forth even earlier than the spring; reflect upon Him.

nwnk so swlwhIAY ij sBsY dy AwDwru ]2]

naanak so saalaaheeai j sabhasai dhae aadhhaar ||2||

O Nanak, praise the One who gives Support to all. ||2||

These examples should be enough. Notice how so many words are similar. This clearly proves that Gurbani does not contradict itself rather all Gurus took the mission of Guru Nanak Dev Ji even further. They very well knew what it was. Not only that, this also proves that the other Gurus had Gurbani pothis with them which proves sakhi of Baba Mohan Ji wrong. Guru Ji already had pothis which is why so many words are similar. If only meanings were same then there could've been a possibility of going to Mohan Ji to get pothis. Even though this is not the main point to be discussed here but I thought I would mention it here.

Main point is to see the similarity between Gurbani of one Guru with another. Next, I will post Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji which further supports Gurbani. Dasam Bani is no different. The purpose for writing these posts is to show that there is no way that any Guru Ji or Bhai Gurdas Ji had different opinion on any topic. many times, people use Gurbani quotes to prove other quotes wrong. Sometimes they use Bhai Sahib's vaaran. I will post these topics later on but similarities had to be shown first. Please share your opinions. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Pheena]

Perhaps you can do the same comparison on the value/non-value of the Vedas.

I would love to see what you have found. I too will try to find shabads.

[Gupt daasan daas]

u can do it on vedas if u want but it aint gonna get u anywhere

this is stated by guru je in banee many places

vedas DO have some truth in them for sure

if u read between the lines for sure i agree

but a lot of manmath as praising of hindu devthai, specially in the rig veda

bhula chuka maf

[Pheena]

u can do it on vedas if u want but it aint gonna get u anywhere

this is stated by guru je in banee many places

vedas DO have some truth in them for sure

if u read between the lines for sure i agree

but a lot of manmath as praising of hindu devthai, specially in the rig veda

bhula chuka maf

98784[/snapback]

Let the Truth be Told then. Please do post such statements that are written in the Guru Granth Sahib.