Kutchee Bani?!

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, veer ji, I did not realise it was silly post day.

AKJ smagams do what they say, i.e. Akhand kirtan. It does not mean katha is anti-panthic. It just means they do Akhand kirtan, as Gurbani states, "App Naam japo, Aavra Naam Japavo".

AKJ does have kathakaars. Giani Amolak Singh, Bhai Joginder Singh leicester, even the likes of Bhai Jasvir Singh Khannewale, have links to the jatha in the past. Even people like myself, do katha in english and punjabi at local Gurdawaras on Sundays. Plus katha is veechar, like is done in camps, messageboards, etc, and there are plenty of Gursikhs worldwide who do that.

However the highest katha is keertan and Paath. After listening to katha that inspires a person, the person moves on to Gurbani paath and keertan. Katha is just a medium to create understanding and inspirational. But the food of a Gursikh is Paath and Keertan.

I hope that is clear. Veer ji, rather than trying to change what jeevan wale Gursikhs do, learn from them and see why they do the things they do.

Plus I do not think Shaheed jathebandees needs lectures on being Panthik from us. Their history and legacy speaks for itself.

Plus veer ji, do not send threatening PMs, they do not impress me, neither affect what I will say. I was going to say this to you before, but I forgot.

waheguru i kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Akhand kirtani jatha does not do katha in their samagams.

why? so is katha anti panthic?

Is vichar of gurbani not required?

Does akhand kirtani jatha dont have any katha kars amongst themselves? They can invite some from outside and it will also help in reflecting more panthic nature of Akhand Kirtani Jatha?

If most of other panthic samagams have katha in their programs why not akhand kirtani jatha?

Also AKJ do dhan guru dhan guru piayre in kirtan?  Is this gurbani

Or they will do Dhan Guru Nanak. Or Dhan Guru Gobind singh Sahib?

Is that Gurbani? Is that nirol Gurbani Kirtan?

AKJ also do Pivo Pahul Kahndey Dhar? I dont know where in Gurbani you can find that. Please point me to source

Donot consider this an attack. I have asked geniune questions as I have been listening to dhan guru dhan guru piarey since childhood and seeing this nirol gurbani thread questions come up whether these are gurbani or not . Full Stop.

Also no one has given a direct answer to what the topic starter asked

The word Bhai Sahib (Gurdas Jee) uses to describe what that Queen went to listen to is GURBANI! This is before the Guru's started Sikhism, yet he says she went to listen to GURBANI!

A simple and straight answer is required.

Was it Gurbani or NOT?

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[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh

Pyare jio, now the silly post is out of the way. Just one more benti.

Veer kharko4life has covered alot in terms of Katchie bani.

Just to add "Shabad Guru Soorat tun Chela". The Shabad is the Guru. These have been written and cannot be changed. Otherwise what difference is that to what Nirankaries and other sects do. I am not comparing sants to them, but just emphasising the Shabads as written, compiled or composed by Guru ji are eternal, with Paras kala, are perfect and nothing else is required.

Guru ji specifically states in Gurbani, that there is no middleman, like in other religions. A soul has a direct link with Waheguru. Gurbani is the medium for this. So the role of any parcharak is to join a soul to gurbani, so the soul can connect to akaal. hence via katha, keertan, history, etc, our aim to take non-sikhs and connect them to Bani.

It makes no sense taking non-sikhs to kaatchie bani, so they can connect to bani , so they can connect to Akaal. You are adding something new to the equation, when there is no need.

If all paracharaks do katha and keertan of Gurbani, then there is no need to kathachie bani. Bani is not that hard to understand that you need to create a new composition, because you will find, many people will just connect to them compositions and not move on the next level. Plus where does this leave the Sakhi of Ram Rai?

Bhagat bani can be complicated, but most bani is straightforward. Most paracharks can explain bani, after sincere study. Sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev Ji intentionally made Gurbani straight forward, just like his actions, words, were simple in their beauty. sahib Siri Guru Angad Dev Ji intentionally made the Gurmukhi script very simple aswell.

We should encourage all to join direct to bani. Bani is the food of the soul. Pyare jio, there is no need for any other meduim.

waheguru ji ekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

[N30S1NGH]

Bhagat bani can be complicated, but most bani is straightforward.

most bani is straight forward.. this is understatement of the century!.

gurbani deserves more than one line translations !

Would you mind looking at the japji sahib audio katha by gyani thakur singh ji taksal..took him 5 hours to explain spiritual and historic context of mool mantar only!.

Dharna's are not kachi bani..i have already corrected and provided historical context of kachi bani puari it was guru angad dev ji son who uchaared his own line in the name of Guru Nanak to bring people to their Sangats. I got that from sampardai's steek.

[N30S1NGH]

I gotta question for you jagjit singh regarding akj smagams,

you see, this file is been going around for a while where, it was recorded in akj smagams and it was confirmed by sarbloh_geeza i beelive.

In this small audio clip, whoever was singing kirtan with sharda after a minute or so start distorting guru mantra in samagams by adding their own sound track..- as brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,grrrrrrrr,, uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu,..yaayeyeyaayyeyeye, ggrrrrrrrrghrhrhrhrh for good 45 seconds.

my question to u is this: is this normal in akj smagams??????? ms514 and others advised me thats not usual but one case.

If it's one case, i could take that as exception..that's not a worry. But if this is normal in akj smagam then it's not good..it's worse than dharna's which you call kachi bani, atleast dharna's does not distort gurbani or gurmantar.

If you want to hear what i m talking about, i can pm you an download link, which is going around on the internet.

Note: I am just asking you a question, not accusing or anything.

[proud_to_be_singhni]

just rememberd this shabad from Guru Granth Sahib Ji

iqlµg bwxI Bgqw kI kbIr jI

thila(n)g baanee bhagathaa kee kabeer jee

Tilang, The Word Of Devotee Kabeer Jee:

<> siqgur pRswid ]

ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

byd kqyb iePqrw BweI idl kw iPkru n jwie ]

baedh kathaeb eifatharaa bhaaee dhil kaa fikar n jaae ||

The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart.

tuku dmu krwrI jau krhu hwijr hjUir Kudwie ]1]

ttuk dham karaaree jo karahu haajir hajoor khudhaae ||1||

If you will only center yourself on the Lord, even for just a breath, then you shall see the Lord face-to-face, present before you. ||1||

bMdy Koju idl hr roj nw iPru pryswnI mwih ]

ba(n)dhae khoj dhil har roj naa fir paraesaanee maahi ||

O human being, search your own heart every day, and do not wander around in confusion.

ieh ju dunIAw ishru mylw dsqgIrI nwih ]1] rhwau ]

eih j dhuneeaa sihar maelaa dhasathageeree naahi ||1|| rehaao ||

This world is just a magic-show; no one will be holding your hand. ||1||Pause||

drogu piV piV KusI hoie byKbr bwdu bkwih ]

dharog parr parr khusee hoe baekhabar baadh bakaahi ||

Reading and studying falsehood, people are happy; in their ignorance, they speak nonsense.

hku scu Kwlku Klk imAwny isAwm mUriq nwih ]2]

hak sach khaalak khalak miaanae siaam moorath naahi ||2||

The True Creator Lord is diffused into His creation; He is not just the dark-skinned Krishna of legends. ||2||

Asmwn im´wny lhMg drIAw gusl krdn bUd ]

asamaan miyaanae leha(n)g dhareeaa gusal karadhan boodh ||

Through the Tenth Gate, the stream of nectar flows; take your bath in this.

kir Pkru dwiem lwie csmy jh qhw maujUdu ]3]

kar fakar dhaaeim laae chasamae jeh thehaa moujoodh ||3||

Serve the Lord forever; use your eyes, and see Him ever-present everywhere. ||3||

Alwh pwkM pwk hY sk krau jy dUsr hoie ]

alaah paaka(n) paak hai sak karo jae dhoosar hoe ||

The Lord is the purest of the pure; only through doubt could there be another.

kbIr krmu krIm kw auhu krY jwnY soie ]4]1]

kabeer karam kareem kaa ouhu karai jaanai soe ||4||1||

O Kabeer, mercy flows from the Merciful Lord; He alone knows who acts. ||4||1||

(shabad by kabeer ji)

vahegurooooooooooo jee.

[Kharkoo4Life]

If all paracharaks do katha and keertan of Gurbani, then there is no need to kathachie bani. Bani is not that hard to understand that you need to create a new composition, because you will find, many people will just connect to them compositions and not move on the next level. Plus where does this leave the Sakhi of Ram Rai?

We should encourage all to join direct to bani. Bani is the food of the soul. Pyare jio, there is no need for any other meduim.

waheguru ji ekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

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You raise excellent points in your posts Jagjit Singh Ji. Good stuff!

I just wanted to add one thing, when Guru Nanak went on his travels, wherever he went he spread the message of gurbani. This included far off countries where the mother tongue was not punjabi. So are we to assume that Guru Nanak merely sang the kirtan and then got up and left? Or after gurbani kirtan did he sing other lines in simple local language, and if so then this must of been an important part of the sikhi parchaar formula so why werent these other lines also included in Guru Granth Sahib?

The answer lies that none of the two aforementioned method were uses. Guru Nanak most likely sang the kirtan in their original form AND AFTER THAT held open discourse (katha) to explain the shabads and related them to the local peoples lives. Thus the formula as pointed out by Jagjit Singh, consisted of singing kirtan and speaking katha, and this was the tradition set by every guru. Katha is ESSENTIAL for the proper understanding of gurbani. This katha or discourse can be in the live format by a kathavachaak on stage, or it can consist of self-reflection by studying and understanding explanations written about gurbani in ones own home.

igAwn iDAwn nwnk vifAweI sMq qyry isau gwl glohI ]2]8]129]

O Nanak, spiritual wisdom, meditation and glorious greatness come from dialogue and discourse with Your Saints

The gurus did not follow or mix the singing of gurbani kirtan with singing of other compositions. This has been a tradition passed on to us directly by the gurus. So why now do we feel the need break this tradition and come up with what we feel is a "better" format? Are we trying to improve on the Guru's own formula?

As someone else stated, i am not attacking or against any particular person, baba or sant, be it past or present, i merely wish for everyone to take a careful look at the direction of sikhi parchaar and decide for themselves how far off we have deviated from the original game plan of Nanak.

[Guest A Singh.]

I gotta question for you jagjit singh regarding akj smagams,

you see, this file is been going around for a while where, it was recorded in akj smagams and it was confirmed by sarbloh_geeza i beelive.

138710[/snapback]

Veer Ji what are you talking about? What have I confirmed? Please do not spread misinformation.

[N30S1NGH]

I gotta question for you jagjit singh regarding akj smagams,

you see, this file is been going around for a while where, it was recorded in akj smagams and it was confirmed by sarbloh_geeza i beelive.

138710[/snapback]

Veer Ji what are you talking about? What have I confirmed? Please do not spread misinformation.

138776[/snapback]

werent you the one send us legal notice how simran file should be removed? if it wasn't akj smagam..why you were concerned at the first place??

[Gupt daasan daas]

wow sant je did dharnaa

thas sikkk

thas first time i heard tha

please post some more

bhula chuka maf

[Guest A Singh.]

I gotta question for you jagjit singh regarding akj smagams,

you see, this file is been going around for a while where, it was recorded in akj smagams and it was confirmed by sarbloh_geeza i beelive.

138710[/snapback]

Veer Ji what are you talking about? What have I confirmed? Please do not spread misinformation.

138776[/snapback]

werent you the one send us legal notice how simran file should be removed? if it wasn't akj smagam..why you were concerned at the first place??

138780[/snapback]

Veer Ji please re read over the appropriate messages sent at the time for clarification. I did not confirm it was at an AKJ Samagam as you suggested. Please do not spread misinformation.

The topic was also discussed in depth in the thread at the time.