Gurbani

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"What is that what you miss even after attending so many lectures from Preachers?"

Have you realized what other preachers are deficient in? If so, please elaborate what Gurudwara you do Katha in so we may ask the Sangat the effect of your Katha on them.

"What is that what you miss, even after reading Gurbani for a number of times?"

Have you been granted the stage of Brahm-Gyan that you can tell everyone here has missed something reading Gurbani? Are you sure that all people who frequent this board have not found anything from Gurbani so far?

"Have our Gurus ever suggested us to attend such lectures?"

Such "lectures" are done in Gurudwaras. Are you suggesting that the Sikhs abandon Gurudwaras and go somewhere else? Do you know which Sangats completely embody the Guru Sahib's concept of Sadh Sangat? Lastly, are you sure that making a generalized comment against all Kathakaars is appropriate, when clearly all are at different stages?

"Have our Gurus ever suggested us to read Gurbani or any Granth?"

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]

gurbwxI suix mYlu gvwey ]

jwgu slonVIey bolY gurbwxI rwm ]

and many others...

Now, by your assertion, are you telling the readers otherwise?

"You may not search for another query after you come to know real JAP."

The question is have you come to know the real JAP?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear ms514 Ji!

You asked "Have you realized what other preachers are deficient in?"

I have already expressed few opinions. It looks like you have not come across such preachers.

You continued " . . . please elaborate what Gurudwara you do Katha in so we may ask the Sangat the effect of your Katha on them."

I sit near the feet of my Guru to listen, not to tell stories.

I brought an impulse "What is that what you miss, even after reading Gurbani for a number of times?" to meditate on it.

Your reaction shows that you have achieved something.

Your response to the question "Have our Gurus ever suggested us to attend such lectures?" is strange. The word 'such' indicates only those preachers I have mentioned. Please do not claim what I have not meant and expressed.

You have put a question. "Do you know which Sangats completely embody the Guru Sahib's concept of Sadh Sangat?"

In my view, it is the congregation of Saadh who has received Naam from the Sat Guru or have come to receive it.

To answer the query "Have our Gurus ever suggested us to read Gurbani or any Granth?" you gave some wonderful examples from Gurbani.

Would you please write which of the Shabad from these Guru's Vaak can be translated 'read'?

You showed curiosity in my relation to the Guru and wrote "The question is have you come to know the real JAP.?"

Yes. By Grace of God this is the most precious blessing from Gurdev.

--------------

Everyone may ask him truly. He wants to belong to a worldly religion. Or he wants to live his true Dharma. True Dharma is recognized by true JAP.

Balbir Singh

[Gupt daasan daas]

thas y guru je made guru granth sahib je

to read

and to learn from it

and by reading it we can taste the amrit from our dasma duars

there is amrit in banee

amrit banee har har teri

by reading banee our dasma duar is opened

panj dooths are defeated

we become one with akaal

if w ehave tru devotion and pyaar when reading banee

bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxNI ivic bwxNI AMimRqu swry ]

guru bwxNI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry]

"The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani all the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him."

(SGGSJ Ang 982)

is`Khu sunhu sIK iehu myrI [ bwnI pFhu Su`D gur kyrI [

pFY mhwqm lhY ibswl [ hliq pliq miNNh hoie inhwl ]28]

"Oh Sikhs, listen to this teaching - recite Gurbani correctly (i.e. pronounce it correctly). Read it and obtain many pleasures, herein and thereafter."

bhula chuka maf

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"Would you please write which of the Shabad from these Guru's Vaak can be translated 'read'?"

Now, how am I supposed to do that when you are telling me that Guru Sahib never says to read Gurbani?

"Do not get surprised when you do not find one Vaak from our Gurus in praise of reading written or printed scriptures. Rather the Gurdev clears doubts in the following Vaak."

( http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....33;OpenDocument )

Rather, I must find someone who will recite and I will listen. As the Guru Granth Sahib is not a human Saroop but a Granth Saroop, shall I sit next to the Guru Granth Sahib, waiting for Guru Sahib to begin talking? This is like my friend, who slept with a book under his pillow before exams. I asked him, and he jokingly hoped that the knowledge would somehow absorb into his brain from the book while sleeping. Guru Sahib speaks to its Sikhs through reading the Supreme Word. Guru Sahib speaks to his Sikhs when a Sikh reads aloud or sings Gurbani. How is this all to be done without reading? Now, you may, as you have chosen to do in the Sikhnet post, go into the deep meaning of what "Parhna" means in ancient dialouge, but sometimes, taking something for what it is is not a bad idea.

I understand your concern of reading and repitition, but please do not assume that those who do Gurbani Paath are doing so sort of mindless repitition. Even Guru Sahib was in deep respect of the Rehat, as he stopped his entire retreat from Anandpur Sahib to maintain the sanctity of the Rehat and start Asa Di Vaar Kirtan.

Gurbani is the Written Word...one cannot understand its message without the act of reading. While the confines of the print itself are not the savior, the message contained within them is. You cannot inherit a treasure if it is locked inside a trunk without unlocking it. Similarly, to understand the message, you must read, as the reading is that key which unlocks the message of Gurbani. That is why Sikhs must READ Gurbani.

"I sit near the feet of my Guru to listen, not to tell stories."

Yet you have spoken many words on this very forum, so I cannot see the rationale of this duality.

"In my view, it is the congregation of Saadh who has received Naam from the Sat Guru or have come to receive it."

And how does one get Naam from Satguru is one does not read the Guru's teachings. For a Sikh, that begins with Amrit Di Daat from the Panj Pyare and following the Rehat that Guru Sahib has prescribed. Penning your articles as a Singh, I ask you, are you a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, or a Brahm-Gyani of the Rajputs/Kshytrias? And if not a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who is your Gurdev?

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all and ms514 Ji!

You seem to be a well-read person.

Is there any difficulty to provide a reference from Gurbani where our Gurus have suggested us to do Paath or read Gurbani?

I have heard about a thirsty person.

He visited his master for the solution. The master told him to drink water.

The person was happy to get the Mantar from his master. From that day he is repeating this Mantar.

Thirst has increased tremendously. The body has become weak. The end of life is approaching near. The hope is keeping him alive to get a rebirth. But the Shabad of the Guru is not understood.

The person is very convinced till today that he is perfectly following his master.

Gurdev sings "disantar bhavai paath parh thaakaa tarisnaa ho-ay vaDhayrai." SGGS page 1012-16

Wanders in all directions, get tired reading paath, thirst gets increased.

"kaachee pindee sabad na cheenai udar bharai jaisay dhorai."

Please be sure. I am not asking anybody to stop reading Gurbani.

My message is to read Gurbani and understand that Gurdev is giving first priority for Simran or JAP.

Those who know this will anyway and anytime enjoy Gurbani in true sense. It does not matter. Who reads or sings Gurbani and in which way then.

All others read Gurbani for the fulfillment of a wish, as ritual or because a preacher has directed them to follow his instructions.

Please spare your personal comments, questions and excuse me if I have disturbed you during sleep.

Balbir Singh

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

bro no offence but are you a narkhdhari, naamdhari, or radha swami basically trying to say that we need a living Guru to tell us the word of waaheguru?

If yes, well get lost.

If not, my humble apologies to the sangat.

fateh.

[Balbir Singh]

I am ashamed if you are a Sikh. I do not need to know your brought up.

I thought we are here to discuss Gurbani.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"I have heard about a thirsty person.

He visited his master for the solution. The master told him to drink water.

The person was happy to get the Mantar from his master. From that day he is repeating this Mantar.

Thirst has increased tremendously. The body has become weak. The end of life is approaching near. The hope is keeping him alive to get a rebirth. But the Shabad of the Guru is not understood.

The person is very convinced till today that he is perfectly following his master."

Your attack on the Panj Pyare giving the Sikh Amrit is not missed by the readers here and is a very cheap and thinly veiled attack. It has become clear that it is you who have not understood Gurbani in the least bit. You have chosen to attack the Amrit of the Panj Pyare, which the Guru himself took. You have previously proceeded to attack the Rehat through saying that those who are doing Paath are doing mindless repitition (yes, people do know how to read between the lines) and made grand claims that those who do follow the Rehat of reciting Path daily have not understood anything. What type of Sikha are you that would belittle the very foundations that the Gurus laid?

Now, tell me, is attempting to hurt others' feelings by proclaiming "I am ashamed if you are a Sikh. I do not need to know your brought up" a part of what Guru Sahib has taught you? If so, perhaps you need to start listening to the very Gyanis and Kathakaars that you are attempting to belittle.

"Is there any difficulty to provide a reference from Gurbani where our Gurus have suggested us to do Paath or read Gurbani?"

Read your own post on Sikhnet. You provide the reference yourself and yet contradict yourself in the same post.

"All others read Gurbani for the fulfillment of a wish, as ritual or because a preacher has directed them to follow his instructions."

Another flawed assumption. Ask the Sikh youth here why they do Paath. You won't get answers of "My mom made me" or "My Gyani said so". They do it because they want to, because they have realized that there is an infinite treasure in Gurbani.

Now, how did you get Simran and JAP? It seems that it certainly was not through the Panj Pyare, because you are belittling them in your previous post. I have asked the name of your Guru, and yet your silence was as deep as Kalyug is dark.

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all and ms514 Ji!

Please do not feel hurt. Then all that is disturbing you are your presumptions or imaginations.

This has nothing to do with reality.

You should not feel hurt when you are on the right path. Nobody can denounce your experiences.

My Gurus are ten plus one, from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I do not feel good about your negative statements in your post. Please do not try to prove that you are a better Sikh by showing your rabid religious values.

You are welcome to discuss Gurbani in a constructive way in the future also.

Please let me know if it is not possible for you.

My best wishes are with you and all on this forum.

May Waheguru Ji bless you and give you Darshan as you want.

Balbir Singh

[Gupt daasan daas]

veer je is right in the sence that gurbanee shud be understood when read, it shud also not be read only for selfish neads, but out of pyaar for akaal

banee is praise of vaheguru

it comes from sach khand itself

vaheguru himself has uttered gurbanee

it is sachee banee

by reading it with devotion we become one with akaal

as for differecn between simran( jaap of naam) and reaidng banee both have the sam destination

one can do only jaap, or read banee

both will take u to akaal

effective way is to do both

but guru j has prasied both methods, and given them to us in kaljug

to say reading banee by itself will not take u to sach khand is not correct

guru je has said to read gurbanee, as thuks have been posted

they praise the anhad shabad, they praise banee

guru je banee is eternal, banee is itself guru nanak dev je sitting ther

by reading it we become one with guru je

by doign simran, which we get from panj pyarai, we also become one with vaheguru

so please to anyone, stop saying these 2 things are different

both contain the some essence

bhula chuka maf