Is It In Taksali Maryada

[BibaKaur]

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

Are you sure you are not targeting anyone? @ anyone who we are talking about in this thread? I am asking this because your post does suggest that.

Sorry if i am wrong.

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all and Kaür Ji!

People on this forum are not having true names. They are not known to me personally either.

I am also not interested in targeting any person. Persons mentioned in this thread are unknown to me anyway.

I am sorry for that if someone feels directly spoken from my posts.

I have expressed my views in accordance with Gurbani as I have understood it.

Please announce it clearly if this forum is run by a particular group to maintain special interests.

Balbir Singh

[BibaKaur]

Satsriakal to all and Kaür Ji!

People on this forum are not having true names. They are not known to me personally either.

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh Veerji!!

Not all people on the forum are using fake names... I dont know about you jk

I am also not interested in targeting any person. Persons mentioned in this thread are unknown to me anyway.

See veerji since you don't know the people we are talking about.. i.e. the singhs at the gurdwara, it is not good to label them... like you said in an earlier post :

"I do not feel mocking at a person who is already suffering and is missing God's Grace. These are persons whom our Gurus have also mentioned. These are Pandits (intellectuals), ritualists, Manmukhs engaged in Brahmanic activities etc. "

I am sorry for that if someone feels directly spoken from my posts.

I have expressed my views in accordance with Gurbani as I have understood it.

All i am trying to say here is that do not label others as "Pandits (intellectuals), ritualists, Manmukhs engaged in Brahmanic activities etc " especially when you don't even know them.

Please announce it clearly if this forum is run by a particular group to maintain special interests.

Balbir Singh

Yes this forum is being run by a particular group, and we do maintain special interests. The group is that of Sikhs, and the special interest is to spread Sikhi.

Forgive me for my mistakes. And please take no offence.

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

[BibaKaur]

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In my view, it is not Bibek. It is Buddhi that is basically the ability to analyze the wrong and the right.

Bibek is the capability to accept God's Hukum.

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

Sorry i missed that portion earlier.

The word Bibek comes from the sanskrit word Vivek which means reasoning or discrimination (of the good from the bad)

Budhi is the intellect or intelligence.

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Thanks for the nice Satsangs.

Buddhi (intellect) analyzes the wrong and the right, reasons and discriminates (of the good from the bad).

Buddhi when blossoms by Simran becomes Bibayk.

At this stage there is no analysis of the wrong and the right, reasoning of this and that or discrimination of the good from the bad.

Another dictionary meaning of Sanskrit word vivek is the truth of wisdom. The meaning of vivek you referred is for the worldly expression of Buddhi when it has become sharpened.

Gurbani is Dhur kee Baanee. Gurbani words express the spiritual context as I have understood those.

Please go through the following references from Gurbani and find out where your explanation of the word bibayk fits well.

Eie sdw Anµid ibbyk rhih duiK suiK eyk smwin ]

o-i sadaa anand bibayk raheh dukh sukh ayk samaan. SGGS ANG 1418-7

That is forever Anand Bibayk, remains pain and pleasure one and the same.

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kwty AigAwn iqmr inrmlIAw buiD ibgws ibbykw ]

kaatay agi-aan timar nirmalee-aa buDh bigaas bibaykaa.

It cuts away the darkness of ignorance. Softened Buddhi blossoms into Bibayk.

ijau jl qrMg Pynu jl hoeI hY syvk Twkur Bey eykw ]1]

ji-o jal tarang fayn jal ho-ee hai sayvak thaakur bha-ay aykaa. ||1|| SGGS ANG 1209-15

Like waves of water again become water, servant and Lord become one.

Here also all differences and discriminations are vanishing.

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bUJY dyKY krY ibbyk ]

boojhai daykhai karai bibayk.

Resolves, watches and does Bibayk.

Awpih eyk Awpih Anyk ]

aapeh ayk aapeh anayk. SGGS ANG 279-5

He is One. He is many.

The differences and discriminations here are merged in HIM again.

--------------

ibbyku gurU gurU smdrsI iqsu imlIAY sMk auqwry ]

bibayk guroo guroo samadrasee tis milee-ai sank utaaray. SGGS ANG 981-5

Bibayk is Guru. The guru looks upon all alike. By meeting Him doubts are removed.

I cannot imagine that Bibayk can discriminate as you explained. Gurbani says that Bibayk is Samdarsee.

--------------

In my view, the faculty of reason and discrimination belongs to Buddhi.

Bibayk is capability of recognizing Wisdom of God, His Hukum, His Oneness.

Kaür Ji!

You admitted "Yes this forum is being run by a particular group, and we do maintain special interests. The group is that of Sikhs, and the special interest is to spread Sikhi."

I hope you will excuse me when I am not able to recognize you that way. I am not sure if my Bibayk is able to differentiate between you and God.

Sat Sri Akal.

Balbir Singh

[BibaKaur]

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

So according to you, "Bibek is the capability to accept God's Hukum. "

And you also say "Another dictionary meaning of Sanskrit word vivek is the truth of wisdom."

And you say that the meaning i refered to is worldly,

and the one you are refering to is the spiritual one, since "Gurbani words express the spiritual context "

Alright.... first i would like to ask you how is bibek the capability to accept gods hukam? Which of the Gurbani tukks you mentioned suggests that meaning of bibek?

And second, "Another dictionary meaning of Sanskrit word vivek is the truth of wisdom." Is it wisdom of truth or truth of wisdom? If it is the wisdom of truth, then isn't it the same as the ability to discriminate the good from the bad? The word "discriminate" is not to be taken as a negative word, since it is the ability to identify the good among the mixture of good and bad things. When we have the wisdom of truth, we have identified the truth from the mixture of truth and falsehood. That is bibek.

Budhi is bibek when it can distinguish between the good and bad, true and false. The budhi can identify the truth when it is bibek.

Please go through the following references from Gurbani and find out where your explanation of the word bibayk fits well.

Eie sdw Anµid ibbyk rhih duiK suiK eyk smwin ]

o-i sadaa anand bibayk raheh dukh sukh ayk samaan. SGGS ANG 1418-7

That is forever Anand Bibayk, remains pain and pleasure one and the same.

gurmuiK buFy kdy nwhI ijn@w AMqir suriq igAwnu ]

gurumukh butae kudhae naahee jinuaa anthar surath giaan

The Gurmukhs never grow old; within them is intuitive understanding and spiritual wisdom.

sdw sdw hir gux rvih AMqir shj iDAwnu ]

sudhaa sudhaa har gun ruvehi anthar sehuj dhiaan

They chant the Praises of the Lord, forever and ever; deep within, they intuitively meditate on the Lord.

Eie sdw Anµid ibbyk rhih duiK suiK eyk smwin ]

oue sudhaa anundh bibaek rehehi dhukh sukh eaek sumaan

They dwell forever in blissful knowledge of the Lord; they look upon pain and pleasure as one and the same.

I say how doesn't the defination fit here? It fits in perfectly! " They have the blissfull knowledge of God, and pain and pleasure are same to them. They have the gyan, there budhi is bibek. They know why they should not be sad when pain comes, and why shouldn't be too happy when they have Sukh. " Anand-bliss, bibek-discerning knowledge. They have identified the bliss. It is above the dukh and sukh. (lucky people they )

kwty AigAwn iqmr inrmlIAw buiD ibgws ibbykw ]

kaatay agi-aan timar nirmalee-aa buDh bigaas bibaykaa.

It cuts away the darkness of ignorance. Softened Buddhi blossoms into Bibayk.

ijau jl qrMg Pynu jl hoeI hY syvk Twkur Bey eykw ]1]

ji-o jal tarang fayn jal ho-ee hai sayvak thaakur bha-ay aykaa. ||1|| SGGS ANG 1209-15

Like waves of water again become water, servant and Lord become one.

Here also all differences and discriminations are vanishing.

Naaa jio! they arent vanishing anywhere. Let us not see at the translation you provided. The Shabad is:

Ab moih lbiDE hY hir tykw ]

gur dieAwl Bey suKdweI AMDulY mwixku dyKw ]1] rhwau ]

kwty AigAwn iqmr inrmlIAw buiD ibgws ibbykw ]

ijau jl qrMg Pynu jl hoeI hY syvk Twkur Bey eykw ]1]

It says:

Now I have found the Support of my Lord.

The Guru, the Giver of peace, has become merciful to me. I was blind - I see the jewel of the Lord.

I have cut away the darkness of ignorance and become immaculate; my discriminationg intellect has blossomed forth.

As the waves of water and the foam become water again, the Lord and His servant become One.

The agyan has vanished, and the bibek budh can now identify the jewel!! Earlier it was blind and didnt know the difference.

bUJY dyKY krY ibbyk ]

boojhai daykhai karai bibayk.

Resolves, watches and does Bibayk.

Awpih eyk Awpih Anyk ]

aapeh ayk aapeh anayk. SGGS ANG 279-5

He is One. He is many.

The differences and discriminations here are merged in HIM again.

does bibek? means passes judgement. Boojai - understands, dekhai- sees, kreh bibek- passes the judgement. (identifies the truth ie has discriminating power)

ibbyku gurU gurU smdrsI iqsu imlIAY sMk auqwry ]

bibayk guroo guroo samadrasee tis milee-ai sank utaaray. SGGS ANG 981-5

Bibayk is Guru. The guru looks upon all alike. By meeting Him doubts are removed.

I cannot imagine that Bibayk can discriminate as you explained. Gurbani says that Bibayk is Samdarsee.

In this gurbani tukk, Two qualities of Guru are identified... bibek guru, guru samdarsi. The Guru is bibek, AND he is samdarsi.

The Guru is wise and clear; the Guru looks upon all alike. Meeting with Him, doubt and skepticism are removed.

you said "Bibayk is capability of recognizing Wisdom of God, His Hukum, His Oneness."

It is the capability to recognise the truth. Recognise the good. To be able to diffrentiate, and identify the good things from a mixture of good and bad!!

I hope you will excuse me when I am not able to recognize you that way. I am not sure if my Bibayk is able to differentiate between you and God.

And what is that supposed to mean?

Differentiate between me and God? i am a lowly mortal, and God is supereme. There is a vast difference right there. i hope your bibek budhi will be able to tell that. It is pretty obvious.

Sorry for any mistakes that i made.. i haven't gone through the whole thing that i wrote.

Vaheguroo ji ka Khalsa

Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh!!

PS appologies to the sangat for diversion from the main topic.. maybe we should have started a new thread.

[BibaKaur]

so jnu rlwieAw nw rlY ijsu AMqir ibbyk bIcwru ]2]

so jun rulaaeiaa naa rulai jis anthar bibaek beechaar

Those humble beings who are filled with keen understanding and meditative contemplation-even though they intermingle with others, they remain distinct.

[Inderpal]

bro..jus skipped the whole txt..chill the reason why they do this is bcoz taksakiz make there own food and eat with other granthis coz they are currently changing ang of maharaaj so the get one guy to get the lanagr..all eat and then 1 guy takes the thalis bak...respect for showin intrest...they jus do it for speed!!

[International Akaali]

Some people say this is too jootha im not going to eat etc you knowe the deal. BUT we all say this is jootha we shouldn't eat from this right but we all should clean the joot the gand inside of us. The kaam khroud lobh moh Ankar. Im not pointing this AKJ or Taksali's but they say Sabhloi is more suchum n thats why they eat from them. We should all check ourseleves and see how suchum we are.

Please don't take this offence towards AKJ or Taksali or w/e jatha. These are just my views.

One person said before that theres a person from AKJ making Langer a taksali and an Akal Takht singh making langar. I never knew sikhs were divided up into so many different jatha's. I never knew Akal Takht had there own Jatha. Akal Takht makes all the panthic decsions. Just becuz taksali's and AKJ have there own views opposed to Akal Takht you don't have to make Akal Takht a jatha now. We are all one Khalsa no matter what you are.

Bhul Chuk Mafi Karni

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

[Shinda]

Kandola Ji,

Throughout the course of a day, many sevadaars perform langar di seva and throughout the day the utensils used to serve Langar are bound to touch the plates of those eating.

It is per Gurmat Maryada that Langar not be served in this fasion (where one's karshi touch's the plate of those eating), but through out the course of a day many individuals are bound to let this slip up happen, and not knowing will continue to serve rather then to replace the karshi.

Those Singhs in Taksal who are exepected to serve or on occassion do serve as members of the Punj Pyarai are expected to keep the highest degree's of soocham, since it is per Gurmat Maryada that one not eat jhoot.

It is for that reason that those who do serve as part of the punj, will go to the back and serve themselves.

As for pangat, Taksalis are not against sitting in Pangat and eating Langar. The reason some take it back to there rooms is usually just because they may have guests over, or want to talk openly with other Singhs, which they feel they couldn't while in Pangat without causing a disturbance or attracting attention. There is nothing against sitting alongside others though.

Inderpal you raised a good point, in your last comments and I agree with what your saying. But on the flip side if one has ego, does that justifty one to openly participate in kaam or krodh? On the contrary, we fight one thing at a time and try to manage what we can. We fight ego by conquering ego, we conquer kaam by fighting kaam, same with krodh etc...

So just because ones not perfect does not mean one should abstain from rehit, since its all an effort to do the best we can.

It is however quite hypocrital I find when individuals wear huge shastar, dress up fancy, talk big about keeping huge amounts of rehit etc, but don't read the bani alongside it to keep up. The external rehit we keep is only as good as the internal rehit that we practice. Otherwise you end up like a hallow tree.

Also just to clarify the Akal Takhat comment, its not as much about Akaal Takhat being its own Jatha as much as it is a way to label one by the Rehit and vichaars that they follow.