Disrespect Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj

[H4RPAL]

There was still a Saroop present at the Ek Nawaz place, last I haerd, which was a few weeks ago. From what I understood, the Sedgley Street Gurdwara were in negotiations with Ek Nawaz regarding this matter, but I believe those such negotiations broke down, and the Gurdwara backed off, because ( I have heard ) the situation was too difficult for them to deal with, as EK Nawaz were not keen to just hand the Saroop over. I believe some sort of compromise was made whereby a seperate room was built for Maharaj in one corner of the place, complete with its own statue of Guru Nanak placed at the front (now removed thanks to the events during the Sikh Convention). Also, one will find a rather fascinating picture of the godess Chandi slaying some demons and things in a picture/statue on the wall as you pass into this special room where Guru Ji is located, and also a rather scary looking picture of Shiva. To the right, in the actual secular religious area, there are large pictures of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Baba Deep Singh hung on the wall.

Hmm, and additionally theres also a waterfall indoors, and a rather flash feeding area with aluminium mini tables people can sit on floor at and eat on. Oh, and in the secular prayer area, there are also many amenities for those who find it difficult to sit on the floor, as chairs are provided for such persons.

All in all a very flash, luxurious setting, its no wonder why you see many Sikhs chillin there. DARN!!! If only I lived closer to Wolves............

[Kurbaan tere Naam noo]

Yeh i'm 100% sure that there is a saroop at Ik Nivas, but a couple of years ago sedgley st Gurdwara took Guru Ji out of there cuz they had statues of Hindu gods surrounding Guru Ji and hindu worship was done towards guru ji!!

u guys talk about Ik Niwas, you should c the other Gurdwara on the same street: 'Guru ravidass Temple'. Its all gud and they do consider Guru Ji as their Guru but also Bhagat Ravidass as Guru hence the name of the Gurdwrara, but when they do aarti its like watching aarti in a form of Hindu worship...they blow conch shells, ring bells, wave a thali around Guru Ji which is basically set on fire!!

And they do 3 jaikare: one of them is Bole So Nihal: Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai?

[H4RPAL]

Wolves people need to sort this stuff out, and find permanent solutions. If this is really an issue of disrespect of your Guru, then why sucha lax attitude. The locals need to get more proactive.

[Nama Singh]

Wolves people need to sort this stuff out, and find permanent solutions. If this is really an issue of disrespect of your Guru, then why sucha  lax attitude. The locals need to get more proactive.

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Respect of "our Guru"? Is the Guru not everyones?

I think i get what ure saying in regards to "wolves people sorting it out" but i dont see problems should be limited to people based on their geographical location. If theres a problem, in lets say Bham or Leeds or wherever, i will see it my duty as a Sikh to sort this problem out with them, rather than say, "you are from Birmingham, sort it out ureselves."

There is not much of a dedicated Sikh base in W-ton as you think. Birmingham, yes. Wolves, No.

[H4RPAL]

I wrote "your Guru," as to show the fact that every individual's Guru is being disrespected, I am sorry if the subtle use of language proved too complex for you, I wanted to personalise the bonds between Sikh and Guru through this use.

What I am saying is there are countless examples of disrespect in Wolves, as this thread highlights, and as such its up to the locals to play a part. Fair enough outsiders can come in and "reclaim" saroops of Guru Ji from such locations, but that is not a lasting solution, as the Sedgley Street example shows.

I never said to leave it to Wolves people in the manner in which you took it; my intention was to stress they should take the lead in this.

Sorry if what I wrote was unclear.

[H4RPAL]

double post sorry

[All-Info]

It is clear enough what H4Rpal has said!!

If outsiders come in on a regular basis to tackle the issues which by now, locals are more then capable of doing, and espcially those who are Amritdhari!! (who have a DUTY to protect Maharaj!) .

Problems have been highlighted, now isnt about time locals stoop up and did something? Why is there a need for outsiders to always come and solve the problems if you know about them yourself? With some singhs from your local area? Peacefully approach and take the required steps in an ordely fashion harming no one. If violence is provoked (walk away - not because you are being scared, because you have a back up plan, record your evidence and then produce it when the police turn up so your back is covered, then do as you please after).

The campaign should and will be getting involved but i would like to point out, Nama Singh, you mentioned its not just a locals problem and yuo see it your duty to protect maharaj where there is beadbi. No offence, but in the 2yrs the Campaign has been active, where have you been? You were also not present on the day Ik Nivaas was approached on the federation event.

Therefore are you SURE your statement is correct?

This isnt a knock at anyone, just its a point to be made. Please dont say its your duty if the bottom line is, you never there when the action is happening because then it comes to the bottom line, hiding behind a pc making comments as we hear so often.

If there isnt a well established sikh base then isnt it about time u changed that?

u need 5 SINGHS thats it, to walk in there and discuss the problem. Surely in the whole of WOlverhampton you must have just 5 SINGHS?

I know loads of sikhs in wolves, theres probably a load on here!! If you live in wolves contact each other and sort out some kind of communication link so you can work together activley.

A quick point - outsiders will not refuse to help on the issue, nor will the campaign but shouldnt someone atleast contact them to find out whats goign on instead of talking about it on a forum?

that would be prehaps the most pro active thing!! Considering the campaign spke to iknivaas on the day of the convention and discovered Gurdwaras in Wolves had permitted the Saroop to be kept there. The Moorti was removed and it is true, they did have maharaj on a higher level. THe place is RSS, u can tell! There is no Quran there, therefore just Hindu and Sikh religious happenings. Maybe it might be an idea for a local, with the gutts to do so!! TO maybe go in on a regular basis, become familiar with the people, and the place! And document the happenings to Maharaj on a daily basis then you know exactly whats going on and what isnt as opposed to jumping to loads of conclusions.

Personally i want Maharaj out, i wanted him to leave that day. The problem is, lack of evidence, as the place is declared a religious institue of all religions, its gona be a bit hard to walk in there, take a saroop and not expect the police to be knocking on your door - thats not me chickening out!! im up for it! BUT that is a BIG loop hole in the law! needs to be investigated and needs to have evidence.

Im sure, THAT MUCH!! someone in wolves can do! Especially one with such a talented ability to take pictures and audio recordings!!

WJKK WJKF

I wrote "your Guru," as to show the fact that every individual's Guru is being disrespected, I am sorry if the subtle use of language proved too complex for you, I wanted to personalise the bonds between Sikh and Guru through this use.

What I am saying is there are countless examples of disrespect in Wolves, as this thread highlights, and as such its up to the locals to play a part. Fair enough outsiders can come in and "reclaim" saroops of Guru Ji from such locations, but that is not a lasting solution, as the Sedgley Street example shows.

I never said  to leave it to Wolves people, my intention was to stress they should take the lead in this.

Sorry if what I wrote was unclear.

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[Nama Singh]

oh ok Cham, if this is about me personally, then i try to live my life as practical as possible. I balance as much as i can. Full time uni, part time job which are essential to me, and the rest, i do as much as i can. I dont consider myself a good "leader" of anything yet. I believe i have my strengths in certain areas, and my weaknesses in others. I do the best i can, like anyone, to turn my weaknesses into my strengths. I try to make the most of my strengths such as, as uve pointed out, making the effort to record events in multimedia and also look after website projects and do some background organising of events, when needed.

This is why i respect R4G sevadars who are actively concentrating their efforts into these kind of things. And although i cant always be there at protests or processions, i will do my best in helping in other ways.

Anyway, if you would like to know more about how i allocate my time and seva, do drop us an e-mail :-D But this is issue isnt about me, so ima stop blabbing on...

One thing, there is a wolverhampton sikh society... maybe they can help...?

[All-Info]

All-Info is the name on this account therefore please use it Amanpreet.

Also, i respect you are busy, but thats not really relevant. There are some who work full time, study full time, continue there weekly seva of events and run sikh societies but still find the time to u know, do some seva.

I did not make it personal, you yourself have made so and i did not imply u were the one with the talents you have listed on yourself!!

I simply stated that you said in your post, as Nama Singh, that you make it your duty to protect Maharaj, which going by the cases so far, you have not been present.

Sorry if offended you!!

WJKK WJKF

oh ok Cham, if this is about me personally, then i try to live my life as practical as possible. I balance as much as i can. Full time uni, part time job which are essential to me, and the rest, i do as much as i can. I dont consider myself a good "leader" of anything yet. I believe i have my strengths in certain areas, and my weaknesses in others. I do the best i can, like anyone, to turn my weaknesses into my strengths. I try to make the most of my strengths such as, as uve pointed out, making the effort to record events in multimedia and also look after website projects and do some background organising of events, when needed.

This is why i respect R4G sevadars who are actively concentrating their efforts into these kind of things. And although i cant always be there at protests or processions, i will do my best in helping in other ways.

Anyway, if you would like to know more about how i allocate my time and seva, do drop us an e-mail :-D But this is issue isnt about me, so ima stop blabbing on...

One thing, there is a wolverhampton sikh society... maybe they can help...?

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[H4RPAL]

Wolves people need to sort this stuff out, and find permanent solutions. If this is really an issue of disrespect of your Guru, then why sucha  lax attitude. The locals need to get more proactive.

126863[/snapback]

Respect of "our Guru"? Is the Guru not everyones?

I think i get what ure saying in regards to "wolves people sorting it out" but i dont see problems should be limited to people based on their geographical location. If theres a problem, in lets say Bham or Leeds or wherever, i will see it my duty as a Sikh to sort this problem out with them, rather than say, "you are from Birmingham, sort it out ureselves."

There is not much of a dedicated Sikh base in W-ton as you think. Birmingham, yes. Wolves, No.

126869[/snapback]

Umm, but you've clearly stated if theres a problem wherever, you will see it as your duty as a Sikh to sort this problem out alongside the "locals." Now you seem to be retracking from this somewhat in saying its a matter of "balance." Where a DUTY is concerned, a DUTY takes priority, it is not a matter of balance, a DUTY is a must.

Also, i don't see why you reacted so badly to the call to action by all-info, perhaps take it as inspiration rather than criticism. We really should all try to work together rather than let our egos get the better of us. Do you know any members of this Wolverhampton Society who might be willing to take a lead in this matter? Individuals who should then be supported by the rest of us.