Sinister: Lost In Translations

[Sinister]

HI everyone,

Just have a few questions or concerns for that matter:

Was the Adi-Granth first compiled in Gurmukhi or Sanskrit?

I know the guru's wrote in sanskriti themselves (this was jsut the language of choice back in the day),

If it was compiled in Sanskrit, how, who (was it the guru's), where, when did it get translated to Gurmukhi?

I dunno for sure but i think gurmukhi was a language coined by one of our guru's (is this right?).

I beleive this is a very important issue, why?

Because the bible has been translated many times into different languages, and each time it was translated a new meaning and an entirely different sect arose and great reformation came about in there faith (similiar things happened in islam).

Latin=catholic adoption

Greek= roman catholic adoption

translated to german by martin luther= to give rise to Lutherianism and later Calvinism, and then later to puritanism

english= done by multiple subjects of King Henery VIII which went on to produce Anglican faith.

I just want to make sure nothing of the sort could have happened in SIkhi when the Guru Gobind Singh Ji's words where compiled in Sanskrit and then later translated into gurmukhi.

this is where the question lies (NOTE: I admit to having no knowledge about this) where, when and by who was the scripture translated by. If the translation was done by the guru himself then, well thats the end of this discussion.

but then again by whom, how, where and when was the gurmukhi translated to english? This i know is not done by our Guru ji's. Could we be emerging multiple translations of the Adi-Granth similiar to the christians? is this bad for the faith? should we be learning gurmukhi to better undrstand our guru's teachings and not learning sikhi off english translations just to make sure that their are no biast interpretations?

Not trying to stir anything, not trying to add an opinion, purely an objective question from objective observation, thus an objective answer would be greatly admired.

Thanks everyone,

cheers

[Singh132]

The Gurus did not write in Sanskrit.

Only very few shabads are in Sanskrit and most of them are in "Sehskriti" which is not pure Sanskrit.

The characters used to record the shabads were never Sanskrit, but the Gurmukhi script.

The question of "lost in translation" doesn't exist, because no translation ever took place.

As for English translations, these are not scripture. I don't think that they can ever be revered. Reading a translation of bani is not and can not be considered the equivalent of reading the original.

[N30S1NGH]

The Gurus did not write in Sanskrit.

Only very few shabads are in Sanskrit and most of them are in "Sehskriti" which is not pure Sanskrit.

The characters used to record the shabads were never Sanskrit, but the Gurmukhi script. 

The question of "lost in translation" doesn't exist, because no translation ever took place. 

As for English translations, these are not scripture.  I don't think that they can ever be revered.  Reading a translation of bani is not and can not be considered the equivalent of reading the original.

134758[/snapback]

Guru ji's wrote in sanskrit. Especially in sri dasam granth.

[UntitledSingh]

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj has not been touched, not one word not one letter has been altered or tranlsated, the Guru himself wrote in his own style, which was not completly Sanskrit nor Punjabi, and it was called Gurmukhi. The first copy of the Guru Granth Sahib installed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, is in the Harminder Sahib(Golden Temple), and it is also in Gurmukhi. I know that many of the worlds scriptures have been translated repeatly over the centuries, but the Guru Granth Sahib has been kept in the original forum and is to be kept in original forum in the future. That is why learning Gurmukhi is important, so we can understand the true meaning.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

[Sinister]

To singh132,

now dont get me wrong, but judging from your response you beleive that the true message of the bani lies in the language of gurmukhi. Thus do you beleive that it is essential to know gurmukhi in order to understand Sikhi teachings?

know do you know Gurmukhi, if so how? You probabl learnt gurmukhi from the punjabi translation, didn't you?

Remember punjabi and gurmukhi are entirely different things, I can read difficult gurmukhi but it makes absolutely no sense to me (meaning i can't understand what Im reading...to some extent), I rely entirely on the punjabi or english translations as do the majority of other sikhs! Is this a bad thing (this is my question in its entirety)?

WHATS THE POINT OF READING THE ORIGINAL IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT?

now what I don't understand in Sikhi is that despite all these different translations that have been made over the past 300 years, their are no major rifts, and that I beleive is truly remarkable!!!!!!! maybe it could be that their are not enough Sikh Scholars, there are not many sikhs that know gurmukhi thus rely entirely on the translations (such as myself) or the fact that our faith is still very young, but still truly remarkable!

you still didnt answer my questions?

by whom, where, when and under what conditions were different translations of the granth made from Gurmukhi to punjabi and then from gurmukhi to english?

shouldn't these things be higly regulated as not to take scriptures out of context? or should people be free to interpret the bani on any level, as do the Protestants with their bible?

To Untitled Singh,

Objectivity is key, your answer (if thats what you want to call it) was not backed by any proof. You didnt answer any of my questions. nor do I beleive you read my post in its entirity. Your response has no objective character to the problem at hand, you just praised the Granth (which is fine), but this is not a popularity contest!

Your response was rejected by me from reading the very first line:

"The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj has not been touched, not one word not one letter has been altered or tranlsated"

To state that Shiri Guru Granth Sahib has not been touched is an unnaceptable answer, you have no proof, however i do, I can give you lots of links in which the gurbani is interpreted and translated BY INDIVIDUALS, and this is what we as the general public read. If you dont mind me asking, what world do you live in?

Just to save time and keeping this forum short, I recomend that people with historical, and languistical knowledge reply to my question, and finally shut me up.

[Bijla Singh]

shouldn't these things be higly regulated as not to take scriptures out of context?

This is a good point. Individuals shouldn't be allowed to make their own interpretations. Guru Rakha.

[Sinister]

PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO MAKE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATIONS....THATS AN OPINION AND I FULLY ACCEPT THAT.

But many people beleive that personal interpretations is whats great about sikhi! we are similiar to the protestant faith (but we have to remeber that the protestant faith split into many different levels in the 1500's, befor sikhi)!

BUT IF IT WHERE NOT FOR THE TRANSLATIONS, PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE GURBANI AT ALL! THUS PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO MAKE TRANSLATIONS.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO CANNOT INTERPRET GURMUKHI WORD FOR WORD, PEOPLE WHO CANNOT TALK, SPEEK AND WRITE IN GURMUKHI ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDANT ON TRANSLATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can read gurmukhi but i cannot understand it (at all), I am entirely dependant on translations of Individuals, does this mean I cant become a sikh?

Again people dont try to change this forum topic, it should be short and simple arguments that are too the point! THESE ARE ONLY OBSERVATIONS THAT IM REPORTING, I HAVE NO PERSONAL OPINION ON THE MATTER OR ACCORDING RECENTLY TO "ADMIN" AM NOT ALLOWED TO EXPRESS IT BECAUSE I HAVE A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT SIKHI!

[UntitledSingh]

The Gurus did not write in sanskrit alone, nor punjabi alone, they wrote in a combination of the two which =Gurmukhi Yes there are translations of Gurbani into many different languages, but the Guru Granth Sahib which is exactly the same in every single Gurudwara in the world is written in Gurmukhi. You want proof? Ok, I will give you proof. The SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is my proof, the first original Guru Granth Sahib which is in Harminder Sahib even today and was installed by GURU GOBIND SINGH JI himself!

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib :'(

[Sinister]

AGAIN UNTILED SINGH YOUR NOT READING MY QUESTIONS?

WHEN, WHERE, HOW AND UNDER WHAT CONDITION WAS OUR GRANTH INTERPRETED AND TRANSLATED INTO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES?

DONT TELL ME THAT THE GRANTH HAS NEVER BEEN TRANSLATED!

YOUR NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IM GETTING AT HERE.

I KNOW THAT THE GURMUKHI VERSION HAS BEEN PERSERVED, I DONT DOUBT THAT, HOWEVER I DO SHOW DOUBT IN TRANSLATION UNTIL I FIND OUT WHERE AND WHEN AND FROM WHO IT CAME FROM!

[UntitledSingh]

"It is recognised as the only authentic scripture in the world that is written and compiled by any prophet. It continues to retain its originality and will remain as such for eternity."

http://www.supportersunited.com/gurbaniparchar/overview.asp