Shiv Ji

[The Khalsa Fauj]

yo teg where did u get that? faridkoat teekah? you guys pooooooooooofffffffffffffff!

How did maa-ee become maaya? Come on man!

[Raju]

i just want to know .. some one on this post said that .. shiv and vishnu came from brahma .. as far as i m concernd bani says that brahma came from akal purakh's naabi..

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Yes, something like that is also mentioned in the bible as well. One can then assume that:

Adam is Shivje

Seth/Abel (Adam's son) is Vishnu

Abraham is Brahma.

It is said that Shiv's other son 'Mahakaal' (Probably Cain of bible) killed Mahavishnu (Abel of Bible?). Bible says that Adam had another son called Seth....hindus say that Vishnu reincarnated (Seth ?) after Mahakaal killed him. If we look at it in this way then everything just falls into place.

In the bible it is also said that Abraham was asked by Para-braham to name him after himself. So yeah the hindu brahma (or Christian Abraham) could indeed have named himself from Akal Purakh (Para-Brahama)'s name.

[Pheena]

Well, if we read Japuji Sahib, paouri 30, it says Aikaa Maa-ee Jugat Vee-aa-ee Tine Chaylay Parvaan, Ik Sunsaaree, Ik Bhundaaree Ik Laa-aye Dee Baan ....

Guru Nanak Maharaaj Ji in this paouri states what hindu scriptures preach and then Guru Ji states that

Oh Vaykhay Ohnaa Nadar Naa Aavai Bohataa Eho Vidaan.

Meaning that the scripture writers, didn't have a clue about God and made these stories which make no sence.

For more, please look at Guru Granth Sahib Ji teekah by Prof. Sahib Singh in Punjabi.

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Incorrect interpetation of the second line. Guru ji is not talking about the Scriptures Writers. Instead the Trayta, Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh do not see God, even tho they are created by the lord himself and he seess them but they cannot see him and Guru ji states that it is a Vidaan that they cannot look back and see the creator.

Just as electrcity produced by a source lights a bulb, the souce knows that the bulb is lit, but the bulb itself cannot claim to know the source. It is simply a medium which is alive by the sole source. Similariy, the Creative, Sustaining and the Destructive energy exists because of the source and the Source created it and sees it, but that energy cannot see the source.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Well, if we read Japuji Sahib, paouri 30, it says Aikaa Maa-ee Jugat Vee-aa-ee Tine Chaylay Parvaan, Ik Sunsaaree, Ik Bhundaaree Ik Laa-aye Dee Baan ....

Guru Nanak Maharaaj Ji in this paouri states what hindu scriptures preach and then Guru Ji states that

Oh Vaykhay Ohnaa Nadar Naa Aavai Bohataa Eho Vidaan.

Meaning that the scripture writers, didn't have a clue about God and made these stories which make no sence.

For more, please look at Guru Granth Sahib Ji teekah by Prof. Sahib Singh in Punjabi.

136772[/snapback]

Incorrect interpetation of the second line. Guru ji is not talking about the Scriptures Writers. Instead the Trayta, Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh do not see God, even tho they are created by the lord himself and he seess them but they cannot see him and Guru ji states that it is a Vidaan that they cannot look back and see the creator.

Just as electrcity produced by a source lights a bulb, the souce knows that the bulb is lit, but the bulb itself cannot claim to know the source. It is simply a medium which is alive by the sole source. Similariy, the Creative, Sustaining and the Destructive energy exists because of the source and the Source created it and sees it, but that energy cannot see the source.

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Where does the word Bohata go then?

How about Eho?

I agree that it can that oh could mean the trinity. No big deal. Point is the same that there is nothing great about Brahma Vishnu Shiv.

[Pheena]

Well, if we read Japuji Sahib, paouri 30, it says Aikaa Maa-ee Jugat Vee-aa-ee Tine Chaylay Parvaan, Ik Sunsaaree, Ik Bhundaaree Ik Laa-aye Dee Baan ....

Guru Nanak Maharaaj Ji in this paouri states what hindu scriptures preach and then Guru Ji states that

Oh Vaykhay Ohnaa Nadar Naa Aavai Bohataa Eho Vidaan.

Meaning that the scripture writers, didn't have a clue about God and made these stories which make no sence.

For more, please look at Guru Granth Sahib Ji teekah by Prof. Sahib Singh in Punjabi.

136772[/snapback]

Incorrect interpetation of the second line. Guru ji is not talking about the Scriptures Writers. Instead the Trayta, Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh do not see God, even tho they are created by the lord himself and he seess them but they cannot see him and Guru ji states that it is a Vidaan that they cannot look back and see the creator.

Just as electrcity produced by a source lights a bulb, the souce knows that the bulb is lit, but the bulb itself cannot claim to know the source. It is simply a medium which is alive by the sole source. Similariy, the Creative, Sustaining and the Destructive energy exists because of the source and the Source created it and sees it, but that energy cannot see the source.

137025[/snapback]

Where does the word Bohata go then?

How about Eho?

I agree that it can that oh could mean the trinity. No big deal. Point is the same that there is nothing great about Brahma Vishnu Shiv.

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The word Bohuta(great) is simply used to express and amplify the word Vidaan, Eho points back to the statement made earlier that "Ohna Nadar na avay"

no the point is not the same, you are relating the Tin chelay to Hindu'ism' and when in subject they are not given great status you readily jump on it and say that Guru sahib is belittling Hindus/scriptures and the giaan they express. Which is apparant in your misinterpetation of the lines. There is a line in the middle of those 2 lines which disagrees with your statement that there is nothing great about Brahma Vishnu Shiv.

aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee tin chaylay parvaan.

ik sansaaree ik bhandaaree ik laa-ay deebaan.

jiv tis bhaavai tivai chalaavai jiv hovai furmaan.

oh vaykhai onaa nadar na aavai bahutaa ayhu vidaan.

God himself directs them to where he pleases...do you think that initself is not great? He ordains them and that is Greatness, not because they are, rather because the Lord Brahma controls them and that makes them Great. Their Greatness lies because they are the creation of the LORD himself. The power of the Tin Chelay can be seen all around you and that is Great, in your body cells are born, sustained and destroyed every second and that is not great? You cannot say God is Great but his Creation is not. The world is created, sustained and destoryed, that is Greatness my beloved veer, it is greatness of the Lord and his Power.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee tin chaylay parvaan.

ik sansaaree ik bhandaaree ik laa-ay deebaan.

jiv tis bhaavai tivai chalaavai jiv hovai furmaan.

Tivai Chalalai what? Tivai Chalavai sristee. God runs the creation, not the trio.

oh vaykhai onaa nadar na aavai bahutaa ayhu vidaan.

They look but can't see God as they are with these stories.

Who is they? the writers of such stories.

I don't know how bahutaa can mean great? I have never read that word to mean great anywhere. Not even in Mahan Kosh.

Bahutaa can mean a lot, more, etc.

According to Mahan Kosh: Vidaan means Dikhaava, nakal kurnaa, badnaami, ninda, to uphaas, haasee kurnee.

It is not belittling. It is stating the truth. If truth feels like belittling what can the Khalsa do? Facts are facts and facts don't change. We like to try but doesn't work. Temporarily maybe but long term, no. For more, please read the link as I don't have time to make long posts. We can't sacrifice truth to make others happy.

When did I say God's creation isn't great? But there is no brahma vishnu shiv there, handling different departments like we have in govts.

If the trinity dudes are great. Please tell me their greatness. What great have they done? Nothing.

It is all Akaaaaaaaaallllllllll!

Exams coming. Assignmens, Projects, Essays due. Busy these days.

Raam Raheem Puran Kuraan Anaik Khai Mat AIk Naa Maaneo.

Simrat Saaster Vaid Sbai Boh Bhaid Khai Hum Aik Naa Jaaneo.

[Pheena]

aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee tin chaylay parvaan.

ik sansaaree ik bhandaaree ik laa-ay deebaan.

jiv tis bhaavai tivai chalaavai jiv hovai furmaan.

Tivai Chalalai what? Tivai Chalavai sristee. God runs the creation, not the trio.

oh vaykhai onaa nadar na aavai bahutaa ayhu vidaan.

They look but can't see God as they are with these stories.

Who is they? the writers of such stories.

I don't know how bahutaa can mean great? I have never read that word to mean great anywhere. Not even in Mahan Kosh.

Bahutaa can mean a lot, more, etc.

According to Mahan Kosh: Vidaan means Dikhaava, nakal kurnaa, badnaami, ninda, to uphaas, haasee kurnee.

EDIT: There is no refrence to the writer of stories, it is a continuation. You cannot just pick up in the middle and point it in a different direction. The last line is a continuation from the first 4 as it speaks in refrerence to it. The 3 chelays are still the topic Guru ji is speaking of who cannot see him.

Beloved veer, You can translate the the word Bhouta either way. The complexities of translating Punjabi/gurmukhi words that have no similar words in english is difficult and can lead to such differences. Translating the whole sentece, Bohuta is simply emphasising the words Vidaan.

According to Sikhitothemax the word Vidaan means wonderful.

ouhu vaekhai ounaa nadhar n aavai bahuthaa eaehu viddaan ||

He watches over all, but none see Him. How wonderful this is!

I wouold love to see the translation of the 4 lines in refrence from Maha Kosh.

It is not belittling. It is stating the truth. If truth feels like belittling what can the Khalsa do? Facts are facts and facts don't change. We like to try but doesn't work. Temporarily maybe but long term, no. For more, please read the link as I don't have time to make long posts. We can't sacrifice truth to make others happy.

The truth as you interpret is misplaced. What facts veer? How can you arrive on facts when i pointed out a set of different view that are opposite of yours. Your facts as you call them are then biased. You are simply concluding on what you believe while ignoring what the other has to say.

When did I say God's creation isn't great? But there is no brahma vishnu shiv there, handling different departments like we have in govts.

If the trinity dudes are great. Please tell me their greatness. What great have they done? Nothing.

It is all Akaaaaaaaaallllllllll!

Exams coming. Assignmens, Projects, Essays due. Busy these days.

...Point is the same that there is nothing great about Brahma Vishnu Shiv..

You simply stated that the creation of God who he directs is not worthy of greatness. I never said they are great on their own, rather it is his greatness that makes them to be great. You cannot say the World is not Great, but God is. If God is Great then Great is his creation also. From Greatness only Greatness can be born.

After reading this pouri how can you even say that there is no Brahma, Vishnu, Shiv??? Are we reading the same thing? They are simply 3 Energies commanded by the lord to do his work. To say they don't exist is just absurd as they can be accounted for in everyday life. It seems obvious you do not understand them in this context, instead you seem to reduce them into fictional or mythological characters. I am not exactly sure how you came to this conclusion, is it perhaps that they are also mentioned in the Hindu Philosophy? Either way veer i hope you do not take offense to my words. I simply see the world a bit differently than you.

[N30S1NGH]

Apparently, the mahan The khalsa fauji thinks - prof sahib singh translations and missionary interpertation of sikhi is only and only true interpertation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

heard about puratan Bhai Vir Singh Steeks, Faridkot teeka, satogali steek of sri guru granth sahib ji?

no point arguiing with the khalsa fauji...people like him use "guru's bani" for their agenda.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

We like to push Niaara Khalsa agenda. Believing in trimurti is big time Bipran Kee Reet! The teekah you mentioned are old and done by mahants and derawalas. Except Bhai Vir Singh one. I don't know about his teekah, so no commennt. As for Missionaries, just awesome. Crazy stuff. I wish I had Gian like some of them. Chardi Kala of Khalsa Panth is my agenda. Should I not push it?

Raaj Karega Khalsa.

Ello?

[N30S1NGH]

FARIDKOTI TEEKA:

"Teekas" (commentaries) on Guru Granth Sahib have been written in one form or other ever since the compilation of Adi Guru Durbar (also known as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

However, the FIRST formal Teeka in line with the Sanatan (traditional) interpretation of Sikh scriptures was written by Sant Giani Badan Singh Nirmala of Dera Sekhwan at the request and encouragement of Maharaja Bikram Singh of Faridkot. This was a direct response to Ernest Trump's translation of Adi Guru Durbar in 1867 that the Puratan Sikhs world found highly offensive as his Victorian interpretations of scripture.

It took Sant Giani Badan Singh Nirmala six and a half years to complete it. It was completed in 1883. This Teeka was reviewed by a committee appointed by Mahant Shamer Singh, the Head Granthi of Patna. The committee included the top Nirmala and Udhasi scholars of their time. After incorporating the comments of this committee, the first edition of this Teeka was published [funded] by the Maharaja Balvir Singh of Faridkot in 1906 which was printed by the Wazir Hind Press (started by Bhai Vir Singh) at Amritsar. The second edition of this Teeka was published by Maharaja Harinder Singh of Faridkot in 1928.

It was formally presented by the Maharaja of Faridkot to the then Jathedar (Commander-in-chief) of the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Panth, 96 Crore Akali Nihang Baba Sahib Singh Ji as a gift to the Puratan Sikh world. The puratan sikh jatha's accepted this translation as being the foremost translation of Adi Guru Durbar. The language used in the interpretation is Hindi, the traditional tongue of scholars of scripture although the script used is Gurmukhi.

This Teeka is known as the "Faridkoti Teeka" It is still available in the market in 4 volumes....now you can download the entire version at (Rara Sahib website):

http://www.ik13.com/Freedkot/TeekaFW.pdf