Hmmm...bachittar Natak...

[Jai Tegang!]

Kitaabi keeray (book- worms) continue to eat away at Sikhi day-in day-out. They try to eat away at the Bani of Dashmesh Pita by rejecting some or even all of Dasam Granth. These keeray have not even spared Guru Granth Maharaj. First it was Raagmala that they tried to eat away, God knows where they'll go next.

People with Jeevans, who have been blessed with Dibh Drishti, Brahmgyan...these are the people we should trust, not some Kitabi Keeray with a degree in this or that, who can argue "logically".

Gursikhs with Dibh Drishti have stated time and again, with full authority since they have the blessing of being able to converse with Guruji in the human form and Prakash form, that all of Guru Granth sahib is Sachi Bani (including Raagmala), and all of Dasam Granth is the Bani of Dashmesh Pita (including Bachitar Natak).

You can listen to kitaabi keeray, or Gursikhs with REAL jeevans. Just a caution, you probably won't find the Jeevan-wale on these forums, only the former.

[N30S1NGH]

Kitaabi keeray (book- worms) continue to eat away at Sikhi day-in day-out. They try to eat away at the Bani of Dashmesh Pita by rejecting some or even all of Dasam Granth. These keeray have not even spared Guru Granth Maharaj. First it was Raagmala that they tried to eat away, God knows where they'll go next.

People with Jeevans, who have been blessed with Dibh Drishti, Brahmgyan...these are the people we should trust, not some Kitabi Keeray with a degree in this or that, who can argue "logically".

Gursikhs with Dibh Drishti have stated time and again, with full authority since they have the blessing of being able to converse with Guruji in the human form and Prakash form, that all of Guru Granth sahib is Sachi Bani (including Raagmala), and all of Dasam Granth is the Bani of Dashmesh Pita (including Bachitar Natak).

You can listen to kitaabi keeray, or Gursikhs with REAL jeevans. Just a caution, you probably won't find the Jeevan-wale on these forums, only the former.

148656[/snapback]

good post purkha.

There will be always hostility between modern day scholars(over parnoid, hindu phobic sikhs) and puratan sampardai singhs because modern day scholars put their mat at first than Guru Di Mat before even trying to expand their horizons, visions, capacity, mindset. Then they wonder, why they cannot expereince divine bani (dhur ki bani)...well DuH !!!!!!!! :homer

[Bundha]

Pyaree sangat Ji,

I really really do not want to enter into this debate but I feel I must.

Although at the beginning it was stated that this should not turn into a Dasam Granth/bani debate BUT there are certain individuals who as soon as they see “Dasam Granth” will start to spread their GANDH, and one MUST respond to this gandh!

<<<To those who will surely be upset by this, i am not saying that all of the writings in dasam granth are without value. There may indeed be some of it which may have been written by guru gobind singh >>>

This is to cover himself when someone asks about the authenticity of the three of the panj banies – Jaap Sahib, Amrit Swayia and Benti Chaupai. But even then he says “There may indeed be some….” …………………How sad.

<<< DId the rest of the gurus not remember this past "incarnation" of their jot? Did they forget to preach this story to the sikhs? Was there a reason they didnt talk bout previos lifes? Are previous lives even relevent within Sikhi? Why over 250 years did only the very last guru speak of it? >>>

Sorry this argument is so flawed and seems almost childlike in its qualities. Just because one Guru Sahib Ji mentions his previous life does this mean that they all had to? And if they did not does that make the one mention invalid ?

You say “are previous lives relevant”, of course they are relevant, they make us who we are! We are a direct result of our previous actions, without our previous lives we are nothing.

<<< The truth is someone long ago, wrote down the name guru gobiidn singh on the outside of a book with various writings, >>>

Lack of knowledge. The writings of Guru Gobind singh Ji were collated by Bhai Manni Singh as endorsed by Mata Sundri Ji.

This SikhSpecrtum article is a load of nonsense by someone who has no knowledge of Gurbani but has read a few books and cross referenced a few others.

Bhaji Jai Tegang, you are absolutely right

Kitaabi keeray (book- worms) continue to eat away at Sikhi day-in day-out. They try to eat away at the Bani of Dashmesh Pita by rejecting some or even all of Dasam Granth. These keeray have not even spared Guru Granth Maharaj. First it was Raagmala that they tried to eat away, God knows where they'll go next. People with Jeevans, who have been blessed with Dibh Drishti, Brahmgyan...these are the people we should trust, not some Kitabi Keeray with a degree in this or that, who can argue "logically".

You think with such eminent gursikhs as Baba Ishar Singh Ji, Baba Harnam Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrwaley that <<< The truth is someone long ago, wrote down the name guru gobiidn singh on the outside of a book with various writings >>>> could ever happen ? Have some faith in your faith yaar, and shame on you Kharrko.

[randip singh]

Sat Sri Akal:

Everyone here has probably heard of the Bachittar Natak, which details the meditation of Dusht Daman Sahib.  Commonly, this is the previous incarnation attributed to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib.  But, and it could just be my ignorance, would that not be against what Sikhism believes?  Allow me to explain...

Sikhs believe that the Guru Sahiban were all one Shabad Guru jyot through ten mortal frames and then the final Granth Sahid frame that is the Guru Granth Sahib.  Now, that would mean that Guru Nanak Sahib was the first body and Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the last human body of that Jyot.  In this case, would not the story of Bachittar Natak be about that jyot?  Basically, the Bachittar Natak would be a story of that one Jyot, then would the story not be applicable to Guru Nanak Sahib as well as the rest of the human frames that embodied that Jyot?

Note:  This is NOT a Dasam Granth Sahib debate...!!!

148564[/snapback]

You are exactly right bro. Nobody wants to admit this cuz so many people have profited (socially and financially) by misleading the masses bout the story of bachitar natak and by admiting that it goes against gurmat (which it does) they would have to both admit they are lying n mistleading others n plus give up their lucrative trade of deceit.

The jot u talk of, of the guru, first entereed guru nanak, passed thru ten mortal frames upto guru gobind singh and now rests within guru granth and khalsa panth. No guru ever wrote about any of their previous incarnations so y the last wud suddenly feel the need to do such seem absurd. The storytellin of bachitar natak goes completly aginst the very fundamentals of SIkhi.

To those who will surely be upset by this, i am not saying that all of the writings in dasam granth are without value. There may indeed be some of it which may have been written by guru gobind singh, but the vast majority is not in accordance with gurbani so could not be the writing of any guru. ANyways, without gettin off track ur right, the story if taken as written wud be about that one jot, same jot which passed thru all gurus, so wud be equally applicavble to all of them. DId the rest of the gurus not remember this past "incarnation" of their jot? Did they forget to preach this story to the sikhs? Was there a reason they didnt talk bout previos lifes? Are previous lives even relevent within Sikhi? Why over 250 years did only the very last guru speak of it?

These are all questions which need to be carefully thought out by every sikh before blindlyjumping and accepting every single word in dasam granth as being true and written by guru gobind singh.

The truth is someone long ago, wrote down the name guru gobiidn singh on the outside of a book with various writings, (some of the gurus, and some not) and people naturally having respect for the guru sahib automatically persumed everthing in that book to be written by that guru. ANd anyone who dares challenges that is taken as being ant-panthic and against the guru, when the truth of the matter is all they want to do is make sure no anti-gurmat writing is accidently attributed to be the gurus jus because of unee shurdha.

148604[/snapback]

Some very interesting and intelligent points Kharkhoo!

A lot of the stuff written here has been attributed to Sanipat.

We had a discussion about this very story on www.sikh-history.com some time ago. There was a diversity of belief, but I think the general consensus (bar one lunatic) was that the stories were symbolic and were put into inspire some quite meek Hindu’s.

Some fanatical people may suggest to call these stories is saying Guruji lied, but I would say that a Guru (Teacher), teaches his pupils through examples be they theoretical or practical. That is what Guruji did. He used stories that related to his Sikhs (who were still influenced by Hindu dharma and lore), in order to make them brave and fearless. Chandhi Di Vaar is a classic example of this.

Going back to Guruji’s “alleged” incarnation at Hemkunt. I would suggest read it and make what you will of it. One one level it is a remarkable piece of poetry. On another level it is inspiring. What it does illustrate is the divine purpose of Guru Gobind Singh ji, and it was THAT Guru Gobind Singh was trying to get across to his Sikhs. One person suggested that it was Guruji explanation of his life in the womb. Also one has to remember that Guruji was born after many years (30 years of marriage, of which I may be wrong). I think Guruji was using metaphors to describe his divine purpose. Much like the metaphors of Chandhi Di Vaar.

[randip singh]

Sat Sri Akal:

Maybe I should have not started this topic as it is going exactly where I did not want it to go...which is debating the authenticity of the Dasam Granth Sahib and the compositions within.  The question was whether the composition would apply only to the Tenth Patshahi or all Gurus, but it is going somewhere completely different.

Sorry for the trouble and anyone I offended...

148655[/snapback]

No dont feel like that. It is a good topic to raise, and seperates those who wish to bury their heads in the sand from those who wish to learn (Sikh).

As Bruce Lee once said, "Don't concerntrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory!". There are always some who are fascinated by the finger still rather than what it is pointing to.

[Harnek Singh]

Waheguru Jika Khalsa, Waheguru Jiki Fateh,

We're all Sikhs here, which means learn. We accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our living guru, not simply as a holy book. When we have questions, we ask our Guruji. As its has been stated before, use GuruJi as gold standard. If we discover any bani's contradicting to what our Guruji is preaching, do we not have a right to ask questions on it?

Gurfateh