Why?

[PaGaL_KuRi]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I've been working on the following question for over 3 days today, and I need to find an answer. I haven't been able to find one yet though and now have registered for this as I have heard great things about the Gursikhs using this. I will appreciate it greatly if anyone could give me an opinion, facts or anything that could help me reach a conclusion.

The question: If Sikhs aren't suppose to worship statues or photographs, why are there photographs/pics of Guru Ji's up in Gurdware?

Answers received so far:

- "Photographs help people gain knowledge on who the Guru Ji's were so I believe they are necessary" - Sanveer

- "I disagree with photographs as people make Calandars and other things using them but in the end they're thrown away or ripped up or just destoryed - no respect is shown for them so there is no need" - Kulvir

- Well it’s true. Why put pictures up of Baba Ji in Gurdware if you can’t worship them? Doing an ardaas in front of Baba Ji’s picture, in my opinion, is as good as doing it in any Gurdwara as long as you do it from the heart (mean it). - Gully

My opinion

Guru Ji's have stated not to worship statues or photographs, so is there a need for them? The only thing in my opinion a photograph/picture can provide anyone is is with a visual image - does that make you a greater Sikh? I believe it doesn't. Guru Granth Sahib Ji has everything required that you need to or should know about Sikhi. If you are determined to learn about your roots, then you could easily pick up a book, listen to Paath, speak to someone that knows what they're talking about. I believe photographs/pictures aren't required on calandars either as a reminder of who your Guru Ji's are and to remind you what Sikhi is. We have a Kara, Kesh, Kashera, Kirpan and Kanga to do this. We have Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Kirtan, Shabads and so on. In conclusion, I myself believe that there is no need for pictures/photographs up in Gurdware and I also believe that having them up in langar halls or where shoes are taken off is utter disrespect so wouldn't it just be better to not have them in the first place?

I do not intend to disrespect anyone. I just am very interested in a answer to this question. Everyones opinions are welcome, if any facts are known please feel free to share them as any bit of advice,factual info or opinions could help!

Guru Ji Rakha

PaGaL_KuRi

[Khalsa Fauji]

Gurfateh!!

PaGaL you ask the question, If Sikhs aren't suppose to worship statues or photographs, why are there photographs/pics of Guru Ji's up in Gurdware?

In alot of mayade it is clearly stated that you can not put any pictures of any Guru anywhere near Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, as it can distract your focus from bani. Alot of Gurdware have pictures of the many Shaheeds, i guess this is for inspiration .

With regards to worshipping pictures...this is clearly manmat. Alot of times you see the eldery touching the pictures and then touching their foreheads as if they a matha tekhing again this is wrong but it exist because culture allows it too. It's one of those instances where Hinduism has crept into Sikhi. You see in films for example people put haars around photos of their dead, again this is wrong.

Im sure most Sikhs who do these rituals don't actually worship the pictures...but is makes their attention stear away from the Creator.

I hope this helps...

Bhul Chuk Maaf!

Gurfateh!!

[Kharkoo4Life]

Fateh,

You raise an excellent question and i must say have provided a beautiful and elegant answer to your own query. Everything you have suggested is true. Now as to why the pictures do exist today and why they are so prevelant in nearly every Sikhs house there are a number of reasons for this.

An interesting historical event relating to this is the time when the pictures of the gurus were first made popular and openly endorsed and sold by the SGPC around the middle of the last century (under the sanction of the Akal Takhat). Prior to this very few pictures/paintings of the gurus existed. Indeed there were the few odd paintings in the occasional gurdwaras or books but by no means was there any widespread endorsement of them. The reason for this was that the majority of the sikhs of that time, particularly the educated scholars, granthis, and leaders all understood that the guru forbidding all idol worship was not limited to just the traditional sense of stone statues but applied to any physical bodily centered representation of the guru (i.e. statue, painting, drawing).

At this time, the now famous Sobha Singh was engaged in creating various paintings of Sikh history. These included his own renditions of how the gurus may have looked like. There is no denying that they are beautiful paintings however the harm which underlies their creation, and more importantly their endorsment far exceeded any limited benefit they may have served. At this time a number of other painters also, inspired by the emerging popularity of Sobha SIngh and his paintings also started creating their own renditions of the gurus pictures. Now the SGPC was faced with a dillema. Firstly, any guru painting had always been understood to be against the prinicples of gurmat (that is why not a single guru allowed even a single painting of theirs to be created while they were alive). Secondly, all these individual painters were profiting from the sale of these paintings. THe SGPC at this point had a choice whether to openly shun and boycott the sale of the sellings of any gurus paintings or to join in with the painters and profit from their efforts.

In the discussions that ensued at SGPC, various eminent scholars and prominent sikh personalities of the time were invited to amritsar and their views sought out. AMongst these was Prof. Sahib SIngh, the author of the 10 volume set Guru Granth Darpan (the most extensive and accurate explanation of every single shabad in SGGS done till this day). At that time he told the SGPC leaders that if they did not take a stern stance against the emerging popularity and spread of the paintings then the negative consequences of their inaction would be disasterous and its ill effects would be near impossible to eradicate. Not only did the SGPC ingore the advice of Prof Sahib SIngh, they openly hired the services of Sobha Singh and endorsed his paintings as the "official" paitings of the Sikh Gurus (in exchange for rights to sell them).

Because of this one single mistake, and countless others over the past decades by people to alienate SIkhs from their true guru (shabad-guru) paintings have become commonplace in nearly all gurdwaras and homes. Many will say that simply having a paiting and not worshipping it is ok, but the problem arises that these people fail to realize the most fundamental point of SIkhi -- that the guru was never a physical being. The guru was always and always shall be the shabad-roop bani. It is the gyaan contained within gurbani which is a sikhs true guru, and this same gyaan was the guru for every "physical" guru we talk of, including guru nanak. Thus to even possess a painting of the guru would be a total affront and negligence on the Sikhs part against his real guru.

As you rightfully point out there is absolutely no need for the aritificial paintings of any guru when the gurus have left us so many other inspiring elements for us to take guidance from. It was to avoide this obsession and fixation on the physical form of the guru that Guru Gobind SIngh upon passing the gurgadhi to Guru Granth Sahib declared for eternity that a Sikhwill live by these 3 fundamental principles:

1.Pooja Akal Ki --- To Worship Only the One God (not any guru, or a pic of a guru)

2.Parcha Shabad ka -- To Understand, follow and spread the gurus teachings (i.e. spread of gurbani not spread of gurus pics)

3. Darshan Khalsay Ka -- Interaction and keeping of company with Khalsa (not interaction with gurus pictures)

I posted a couple times before about pictures, so rather than repeat that stuff ill put up the links you can go to and read if u have time.

Guru Pictures 1

Guru Pictures 2

Hope this helps

Rab Rakha

[Khalsa4ever]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

I would say that there is nothing wrong with having pictures of our gurus, etc. in the darbaar hall but DO NOT WORSHIP THEM.

It would be similar to why do we "dress up" SGGSjee and have nice decorations inside the darbar hall, etc. Its purely for an asthethic reason, but serves no vital religious purpose.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"It would be similar to why do we "dress up" SGGSjee and have nice decorations inside the darbar hall, etc. Its purely for an asthethic reason, but serves no vital religious purpose."

If a Sikh believes that the Guru Granth Sahib is the living embodiment of the Gurus, then that Guru should be dressed as the Gurus were, which were like royalty. The Gurudwara is the castle of the Guru, the Darbaar Hall the Guru's Court, the Thakt the Guru's Throne and the rumalae are the royal robes of the Guru.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

[PaGaL_KuRi]

In alot of mayade it is clearly stated that you can not put any pictures of any Guru anywhere near Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, as it can distract your focus from bani. Alot of Gurdware have pictures of the many Shaheeds, i guess this is for inspiration .

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Fateh

Khalsa Fauji ji, thank you for the comment. I'd like to say, how you say that most Gurdware have pictures of Shaheeds up, the ones I go to, have a mixture of both. Inspiration? I can understand using inspiration as an excuse in homes, but when entered into a Gurdwara the sound of Gurbani is inspiration - so is there a need for them? Do they really serve any purpose in Gurdware?

Bul Chuk Maaf

[PaGaL_KuRi]

Kharkoo4Life: Thank you for the amazing historical background. I wasn't aware of any of that - it's helped me a lot. So basically, photographs shouldn't be kept in Gurdware hunna? Gurdware are suppose to emphasise the importance of Gurbani and not visual images (which can be gathered by connecting with Gurbani)

Thanks again.

[PaGaL_KuRi]

Kharkoo4Life: Thank you for the amazing historical background. I wasn't aware of any of that - it's helped me a lot. So basically, photographs shouldn't be kept in Gurdware hunna? Gurdware are suppose to emphasise the importance of Gurbani and not visual images (which can be gathered by connecting with Gurbani)

Thanks again.

[Khalsa Fauji]

In alot of mayade it is clearly stated that you can not put any pictures of any Guru anywhere near Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, as it can distract your focus from bani. Alot of Gurdware have pictures of the many Shaheeds, i guess this is for inspiration .

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Fateh

Khalsa Fauji ji, thank you for the comment. I'd like to say, how you say that most Gurdware have pictures of Shaheeds up, the ones I go to, have a mixture of both. Inspiration? I can understand using inspiration as an excuse in homes, but when entered into a Gurdwara the sound of Gurbani is inspiration - so is there a need for them? Do they really serve any purpose in Gurdware?

Bul Chuk Maaf

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Gurfateh!!

Hi, don't get me wrong i completely agree with you on the point that inside a Gurdwara the only source of inspiration you need is Maharaaj Ji.

However you can look at it on a more simplified level eg:

Parents take children to the Gurdwara, these children have no understanding of Gurbani, they look around and see pictures of Shaheeds or perhaps Gurus, and then they start asking questions...

Thus its an excellent visual aid in the learning process, however this can and should be done at home anyway.

You must remember the mentality of having pictures up in a Gurdwara varies from each Gurdwara, the best thing you can do is ask the person who put the pictures up in the first place why s/he did so.

Bhul Chuk Maaf!

Gurfateh!!

[crayzy]

i agree

like I said in my post which was deleted by admin it seems, pictures are a great visual aid.

They can hjelp with surat when learning how to do simran as well.

Most paintings are basic depictions, but if it bugs you that the people who painted them dont know what the Gurus looked like then get a Nanaksar copy of Guru Nanak Dev Jis saroop