Why?

[PaGaL_KuRi]

If thats what it means to you dont do it. But making assertions that its idol worship is ridiculous.

Each one of of us has a subjective relationship with Guru Sahib, you seem to think you can come up with a set of cleanly defined rules of how to do every single task as a Sikh - this will hinder your progress, you will not be able to recognise truth through anbhav; kitabi giani ideas of truth will blind you.

149101[/snapback]

I completely disagree with your opinion You're saying that we're coming up with defined rules - we're not doing such a thing. I've been taught that if you want to follow Sikhi, follow it properly and not just to a certain extent. I'm trying to understand why things are happening the way they are in our religion. There can be serious consequences if people are taught incorrect things.

I completely understand where you are actually coming from yet still disagree.

The truth about Sikhi can be gathered from one source and one source only - Guru Granth Sahib Ji and I'm sure you'll agree with me on that. Books written by other authors may be full of a load of bakwaas, but Guru Sahib is the only source we ought to follow and believe. If in Guru Sahib it says 'no idol worship' - why do Gurdware especially keep photographs as in my view - it's literally the same.

Guru Ji's didn't want to be classed as anything special - by making photographs of them and refering to them as God. I mean, when someone asks you 'who is that?' pointing at a pic of Guru Arjan Dev Ji - what will be your reply? I'll be honest, I've told them that that's a Sikh God and I'm sure many of you have too. If this keeps happening - more confusion will develop.

Gurdware should be the places disencouraging things as such, they shouldn't be following a 'trend' or however you'd like to portray it - they should be setting the right example but they're not and I personally feel this to be wrong!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[PaGaL_KuRi]

well, its the stopping of picture worship that should stop, not the abolition of pictures.

<.<

the KKK use the cross as a symbol, doesnt mean christians should stop using the cross too.

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Symbols are NOT God/Guru. I'd like to make this very clear

Symbols (Ik OnKar, Khanda Sahib) are NOT.. NOT God/Guru

It is a Nishaani, if you seriously believe that - then why do you wear a Kara (if you do) or keep your hair??? Wouldn't that also class as God if symbols do? Of course not!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[PaGaL_KuRi]

I know everyone says that the pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the guru.

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I don't mean to sound rude - and I'm sure what I'm about to state wasn't your attention. I'm about to say this for everyones benefit.

(Guru Ji - refering to Guru Granth Sahib Ji)

If Guru Ji said, don't cut your hair, you cut it - DISRESPECT

If Guru Ji said, respect your parents, you disrespected them - DISRESPECT

and IF GURU JI SAID, DO NOT DO IDOL WORSHIP, you did it - what is it?? DISRESPECT

How many of you believe 'pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the Guru' are you ok?! I mean - they're totally against the whole idea themselves so how on earth is that showing them respect??? You're completely doing the opposite!!! They say NO so you go and do it? How does that work??

It's like your father saying don't smoke, you smoke, they find out, you get told off because you went against them, disrespected them. Respecting him would have been to follow what he stated!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[humble_kaur]

Dearest Bhenji,

I believe that before anyone should point fingers at other people’s views or perceptions, they should first ‘clean up’ their act at home. This includes myself. I am a hypocrite, I know. As I am writing this, I know I, myself, personally do not own or have even a single 'picture of our Guru', but my house is full of them. So, how can I go and point fingers at anyone? I also tried to reason with my parents that these pictures are not of the Guru themselves, but because of their lack of awareness, and because of this notion being engraved in their psyche, it can get difficult. But, I do have talks with my parents about what I am learning (hopefully correctly), and do discuss these issues with them. I find if you can discuss a topic with passion, with love, and not try to force them, then they do listen. They start to realize not all of these so called 'Sikh rituals' are correct.

A Sikh is required to worship only one God and follow the teachings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. A Sikh is not to worship any heavenly bodies, such as the sun or moon, or images, pictures, or paintings of gods, not even their own Gurus. The Gurus never permitted any paintings, busts, or sculptures of themselves to be created. They only taught and emphasized the philosophy of 'Shabad Guru.'

jh dyKau qh nwil guir dyKwilAw ]

Wherever I look, there the Guru has shown me that God is always with me.

AMqir bwhir Bwil sbid inhwilAw ]2]

Searching inwardly and outwardly as well, I came to see Him, through the Word of the Shabad. ||2||

They only emphasized the philosophy of 'Shabad Guru'. According to Guru Ji, Gurbani is the 'Shabad Guru'.

bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]

The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]

If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||

Worshiping the pictures is none other than a Brahmanical ritual that people have implemented in their lives by putting them up in the Gurdwaras and in their homes. When I visited India, and went to many Gurdwaras, I noticed pictures of the Gurus. So how are we to convince someone that they shouldn't be there? It would be difficult cuz it has been engraved in the Sikh psyche. A lot of people have the pictures in their homes to show a sign of respect, some even have garlands around them.

So if these pictures were made by the imagination of painters, and all differed, which is the true picture of our Guru? As stated before, no Guru allowed for their pictures, images to be painted. Therefore, we shouldn't have pictures in the Gurdwaras or our houses, instead the Gurus should reside in our hearts, our mind, our soul. The gyan, the Jot, is what our Guru is, so how can we possible take a picture of it? If you make the effort of understanding the Shabad Guru, then nothing can stop you from experiencing it day and night. Shabad Guru will be radiating all around you. In your mind, in your heart, and in your surroundings. We will begin to perceive God everywhere.

These days, people do think a quick glance at Guru’s picture is enough darshan to keep them satisfied for a short amount of time until hunger strikes again. But what they fail to realize is that Guru is within us, and by reading Shabad Guru we, in fact, are feeding our hungry soul. Unfortunatley, the mentality of many has become so engrossed in depicting Guru’s pictures as of themselves, that they cannot let go of that notion. Majority of people I’ve talked to feel guilty if they do not show ‘respect’ to the Guru’s Pictures, and they seem quite appalled when I say that that picture is not my Guru.

I agree with you that many parents these days use the ‘pictures’ as visual aids. But, from where I look at it, the world has become so busy, that we don’t even have time to sit with the children and discuss our beautiful religion with them. But I disgree with you when you say books written by certain people are full of bakwaas. If it wasn't for scholars like these, I would find it difficult to understand Gurbani. Gurbani is simple, but only if you take the time and effort to understand it. But by only understanding it, is not enough. You have to live it, experience it. Question that can be posed on many of the youth, and parents for that matter, is that, is there no time for God in your life? Maybe you have a Gutka at home that you have never opened. Maybe you have heard of the 5 Ks. What does having the 5 Ks mean? Do you even know why we wear them? Maybe you pass a Gurdwara each week that is nothing but a monument to you. You do not know what occurs in there. We have moved. We have strayed. We need to return. We need to repent, in order to find God.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[crayzy]

Symbols are NOT God/Guru. I'd like to make this very clear

Symbols (Ik OnKar, Khanda Sahib) are NOT.. NOT God/Guru

It is a Nishaani, if you seriously believe that - then why do you wear a Kara (if you do) or keep your hair??? Wouldn't that also class as God if symbols do? Of course not!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

if you dont worship the picture how is it idol worship

[PaGaL_KuRi]

if you dont worship the picture how is it idol worship

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If you don't worship it, what's the point of it?

[PaGaL_KuRi]

humble_kaur

I completely agree with your views and understand where you're coming from. You said that it's difficult to explain to people that it shouldn't be happening but if you can prove it to 1 person.. a kind of 'trend' could occur in which other people think 'oh look, that gurdwara doesn't do it, why do we?' if you understand what I mean.

However, I completely understand you and would like you thank you for your views.

Fateh

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

not long before we will be inspired by a huge statue of guru gobind dingh on a horse..i mean why not we got the pics might as well make a cool statue too.

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You have a very strong opinion on this topic, I'm glad someone understands where my question actually came from. I'd just like to add onto the above quote.

Not long? Haven't you been to 'Methi Wala' Gurdwara in India? On entrance there is a huge statue of Guru Gobind Singh Ji on his horse. Along side, you have statues created of the Sahibzade and other historical events. Doesn't this say it all? Now is the time to stop it... if things get any further, then think of the consequences:

- The next generation could form a sort of 'mandar' at home in which the photographs are kept and they bow down to the photographs instead of going to a local Gurdwara...

- Sikhi will no longer exist!!!! - Think about it, worshipping Guru Nanak Dev Ji's photograph and other photographs yet not listening to Gurbani etc - is that really going to be Sikhi??

I don't mean to be rude or anything, I mean even I have pictures of them up around the house, but thats due to my parents believing more into culture than religion and it's something I don't have control over..

Just think about it!

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no , i didn't know that our quam had already fallen that low.(making statues but in my mind i knew thatw as the natural next step).

i personally have taken guru pictures off of my bedroom walls but the rest of the house is dominated by my parents will we just have to speak up cause a lot of these gurdwara pardhaans, parents, etc think the youth is too dumb about sikhi to ever say anything.

But a reassuring thing that i have noticed is that most if not all amritdhari, rehit keeping sikhs that i know totally disregard these pics, which is a good thing. Most people who belive in these pics are monai sikhs who are on the path of sikhi and still searching for shabad guru. The people who fight the hardest for these pics are the ones who haven't discovered shabad guru yet.

i guess one more thing we have to remember is that many sikhs have come from hindu backgrounds and old habits are hard to break just like how sikhs belive in jagaas(holy tombs) etc they get that influence from islam. At our khoo(well) in punjab my baba's brother's family made a jaga(place) cause his wife had a fream in which some baba told her to make a jaga there for good luck...thsi kind of stuff is very prevalent in punjab right now, everyone and there mama has a "jaga" where people bow to.....

[Kharkoo4Life]

I know everyone says that the pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the guru.

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I don't mean to sound rude - and I'm sure what I'm about to state wasn't your attention. I'm about to say this for everyones benefit.

(Guru Ji - refering to Guru Granth Sahib Ji)

If Guru Ji said, don't cut your hair, you cut it - DISRESPECT

If Guru Ji said, respect your parents, you disrespected them - DISRESPECT

and IF GURU JI SAID, DO NOT DO IDOL WORSHIP, you did it - what is it?? DISRESPECT

How many of you believe 'pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the Guru' are you ok?! I mean - they're totally against the whole idea themselves so how on earth is that showing them respect??? You're completely doing the opposite!!! They say NO so you go and do it? How does that work??

It's like your father saying don't smoke, you smoke, they find out, you get told off because you went against them, disrespected them. Respecting him would have been to follow what he stated!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

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Fateh,

I completely agree with ur points. When i wrote "everyone says pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the guru" i wasnt saying i agree with that perception. I was merely trying to highlight the mindset of most sikhs these days. As ive stated before, i completely disagree with the presence of photos of any gurus anywhere (be it gurdwara, home, musuem) so naturally that would also mean that i view the photos as being complete disrespect and disregard towards the gurus hukam.

As u urself state, respecting the guru means following his hukam, which includes absolutely NO IDOL WORSHIP IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. Your also right that a Sikhs only source of SIkhi should be SGGS, that is why i have not left saying photos are wrong simply as a subjective opinion but tried to show how even the existence of photos goes completly against gurmat philosophy by using tuks from gurbani.

ANyways, glad to see that many are seeing the light, adn actually putting their beliefs into actions by removing the photos from their homes. As for younger ppl, whose parents forcefuly put up pictures despite discussion of it being wrong, we cannot make anyone to change their views using force. All we can do is share the true meanings of gurbani with them, the true principles of sikhi sidhaant, and hope thru a loving understanding dialouge they will come to understand the flaws and dangers in such practices and reform their ways. The rest will be left in the hands of AKaal Purakh.

[PaGaL_KuRi]

149204[/snapback]

i guess one more thing we have to remember is that many sikhs have come from hindu backgrounds and old habits are hard to break just like how sikhs belive in jagaas(holy tombs) etc they get that influence from islam. At our khoo(well) in punjab my baba's brother's family made a jaga(place) cause his wife had a fream in which some baba told her to make a jaga there for good luck...thsi kind of stuff is very prevalent in punjab right now, everyone and there mama has a "jaga" where people bow to.....

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I know what you mean about Hindu upbringings. Even in my pind we have a 'Jaga' and I have to go there every time I go to India and do Matha Tekh, but I only do it for the happiness of my family.. that's something I won't be doing when I go in March.

Thanks a lot. :TH: