Metaphor

[Trust1]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

i have a question which is difficult to phrase, so please forgive me for my ignorance.

i was talking to someone about sikh history. this person told me that many things are metaphors. im not sure exactly what he meant by that, did he mean that it didn't happen?

one thing i greatly disagreed with what he said was about Baba Deep Singh Jee. i believe that his head did get cut off, and he didnt stop fighting until he reached harmandir sahib. i dont care about science saying that it is not physically possible. with the power of naam you can do anything.

again this person told me it was a metaphor. they tried to explain to me what they meant by a metaphor, but i didnt really understand. i have a very short attention span <<total moorakh.

What does it mean when someone tells you the story is a metaphor?

are they trying to say it didnt happen?

sangat ji, forgive me for my ignorance.

bhul chuk maaf karo, please correct any mistakes i have made.

[singhni]

In language, a metaphor (from the Greek: metapherin) is a rhetorical trope defined as a direct comparison between two seemingly unrelated subjects. In a metaphor, a first object is described as being or precisely equal to a second object. Thus, the first object can be economically described because implicit and explicit attributes from the second object are used to enhance the description of the first. This device is exploited in literature and especially in poetry, where with few words, emotions and associations from one context can powerfully be associated with another, different subject.

Metaphor is a subset of analogy and is closely related to other rhetorical concepts such as comparison, simile, allegory and parable.

In cognitive linguistics, metaphor is often seen as a basic cognitive function, that humans naturally see common traits in subjects which are factually distinct, and such behavior may be required for comprehension and learning. Termed a conceptual metaphor, this trait is exploited in psychotherapy using a therapeutic metaphor where stories unrelated to the patient are used to teach lessons about the patient's situation. Though the word metaphor in linguistic or cognitive areas are analogies, such use falls outside the literary definition of metaphor.

[randip singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

  i have a question which is difficult to phrase, so please forgive me for my ignorance.

  i was talking to someone about sikh history. this person told me that many things are metaphors. im not sure exactly what he meant by that, did he mean that it didn't happen? 

  one thing i greatly disagreed with what he said was about Baba Deep Singh Jee. i believe that his head did get cut off, and he was fighting with it on his hand. i dont care about science saying that it is not physically possible. with the power of naam you can do anything.

  again this person told me it was a metaphor. they tried to explain to me what they meant by a metaphor, but i didnt really understand. i have a very short attention span <<total moorakh. 

What does it mean when someone tells you the story is a metaphor?

are they trying to say it didnt happen? 

sangat ji, forgive me for my ignorance.

bhul chuk maaf karo, please correct any mistakes i have made.

149254[/snapback]

The definition of a metaphor = http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=metaphor

I really dont want to get into the debate about Baba Deep Singh because it will be followed by abuse from a couple of people who post here.

I will say this. For some people it is important that Baba Deep Singh died fighting with head in hand. For others it is important that Baba Deep Singh just died fighting and fought to the end.

Either way he did not give up to the last breath. For Sikhism, in defence of truth, justice and freedom, it does not matter if we physically lose our heads, because we will never give up out Sikhi and we will never give up fighting. You could say this last statement is the metaphor it represents.

[gupt_paapi]

.. or maybe not coz he threw his head into the harimandir sahib complex.. a memorial place is made where the head landed.

Let us not underestimate the power of NAAM.

Sukhmani sahib says, that with simran of waheguru, u can even live without breath..

Akal Purakh made us, that's the biggest miracle ever! How nature is sooo perfectly constructed, yet if something disagrees with our intelect we dont beleve it happened

not good

[Kharkoo4Life]

SImply put, metaphors is when trying to describe a particular concept, idea or feeling the person uses a completely different example to help explain the original concept/idea/feeling.

For instance, gurbani states that for a SIkh, his GUru is vital to his existence. Every step a Sikh takes, is centered around the teachings of his guru. Gurbani uses the metaphor of a relationship between man and water to explain how important a guru is to a sikh.

ijau pRwxI jl ibnu hY mrqw iqau isKu gur ibnu mir jweI ]15]

Just as the mortal dies without water, so does the Sikh die without the Guru.

For a sikh, living a life wihout his guru, i.e. by not following the teachings of the guru, is like an ordinary man trying to survive without water. Its impossible.

This same concept is explained using other metaphors in the following shabad. As u will see, metaphors are merely examples of things which are common in everyday life, or things which ppl will understand more easily and are already familiar with. By using these familiar examples, it helps the reader to understand new ideas the guru has put forth which may otherwise seem confusing or hard to grasp.

Agin mrY jlu pweIAY ijau bwirk dUDY mwie ]

As thirst is quenched with water, and the baby is satisfied with mother's milk,

ibnu jl kml su nw QIAY ibnu jl mInu mrwie ]

and as the lotus does not exist without water, and as the fish dies without water

nwnk gurmuiK hir ris imlY jIvw hir gux gwie ]8]15]-

O Nanak, so does the Gurmukh live, receiving the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.

With regards to the Baba Deep Singh reference, what randeep singh said above is the essence of the story. It doesnt matter which verison of the story we beleive, for it is but a story. Whats more important than the story is the moral lesson or meaning behind the story which we should take home. And that is to be willing to sacrifice everything for what we beleive in and willing to fight for that belief right till the end no matter how hard and impossible the odds seem stacked against us.

I realize many people have great respect for Baba Deep Singh, as do i. I regard him as one of the finest examples of what a true Sikh embodies. However, due to whatever reasons, certain historians, storywriters have added unnecessary miraculous events to the life of Baba Deep Singh. Perhaps they feel like christians, a sikh needs to see his role models (gurus, purataan sikh) perform miracles or display supernatural powers in order for them to be inspired to follow them. The true miracle is not the display of supernatural po0wers, which defy the laws of nature. For me the true miracle is the lives of the gurus, and the sikhs of that time, who despite the most challenging and insurmountable odds and pressures were able to live a remarkable life using the same ordinary means as u and me (honest hard effort) that was completely void of any vice, of the highest moral character both in theory and practice and be able to stay completely merged with God throughout their life.

About the baba deep singh story, despite the most certain protest my post will bring on, i must state that NO SIKH (OR GURU) EVER ENGAGED IN ANY MIRACLE OR DISPLAY OF SUPERNATURAL POWER. All sikhs lived by the hukam of God. THey used the same means as those around them to fight for their belief. They did not resort to any special means to stay alive and gain an extra few minutes of fighting for whatever reason they thought necessary. Thousands of sikhs of that time lived lives of the same spiritual level as baba deep singh yet why is he the only one who felt the need to fight with his head cut off? Just to fulfill his own prophecy? Was he so full of ego that he couldnt bare to see his own words not come true? And then he had to use special means or make a special prayer to god so that he could fulfill his own words? How self-centered would that be?

When baba deep singh said i will not give up until i have reached darbar sahib, it does not mean he was willing to rely on miraculous powers simply to reach that site. It was a means of inspriing his fellow men that they should be ready to give up all and die, anotherwords do whatever it takes to keep the torch of truth alive.

The same words of inspiration and asking of commitmment of the follower was used by guru nanak:

jau qau pRym Kylx kw cwau ]

If you desire to play this game of love with Me,

isru Dir qlI glI myrI Awau ]

then step onto My Path with your head in hand.

iequ mwrig pYru DrIjY ]

When you place your feet on this Path,

isru dIjY kwix n kIjY ]20]

give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion.

People often qoute the above lines when describing baba deep singhs saheedi, but they completely distort the true meaning of the shabad. The guru is not saying to literally cut off ur head and come to me. He is sayin be willing to give up everything and surrender ur completle self to me (i.e. give up ur own thinking, ur own mut, ur own ego). Only then will u be able to follow this path for u wont care for ur own personal views, or the views of tothers, the only view whicih will matter is the view of the guru. And then, if need be, be willing to die for this path of truth.

A better translation of the above shabad would be:

"If you wish to play the game of love,

Come to me with readiness to die in your heart,

For on this path, even the first step should mean that

You will not hesitate to lay down your life - for righteousness."

So HEAD IS A METAPHOR TO REPRESENT BE WILLING TO SURRENDER ALL FOR THE CAUSE OF TRUTH. The same way it used in the story (tho it wud have been better to avoid using that metaphor in the story to avoid the obvious confusion it creates amongst sikhs who blindly cling to the notion that this actually occurred)

The other shabad which ppl often use in support of this story is that written by bhagat kabir:

ggn dmwmw bwijE pirE nIswnY Gwau ]

The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted.

Kyqu ju mWifE sUrmw Ab jUJn ko dwau ]1]

The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||

sUrw so pihcwnIAY ju lrY dIn ky hyq ]

He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion.

purjw purjw kit mrY kbhU n CwfY Kyqu ]2]2]

He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle.

There was no Khalsa army at that time, or even Sikhs around when Bhagat kabir wrote this. SO which warrior is he talking about? WHich battlefield is he talking about? As with all gurbani, the focus is on the battlefield of the mind. The focus in on the spiritual being, not the physical being. FOr all physical things are temporary and fade with time, but the spiritual core is eternal. What bhagat Ji is saying is that a true spiritual warrior is one who is able to fight off the five vices no matter how difficult it is. One who never gives into these vices even for a single moment despite how hard it may be (i.e. emotionally, socially etc to live a pious spiritual life while all others engage in these immoral thoughts and behaviour all around u). The wording is merely metaphors to describe this.

IF we take this literally then commen sense will tell us that no human being (regardless what we say bout things as naam kamaee or bhagtee) can walk around and do anything if they are cut into pieces. Naam kamaee or bhagtee isnt a special mantra to give us supernatural powers, its an inner strength developed throught the recitation and understanding of gurbani to help us fight the evils of the mind. So yes, i realize at first it may seem hard to beleive, even may be viewed as an insult to baba deep singh if we try to analyze this story and say certain aspects of it is false, but truly, is it not more of an insult to baba deep singh by adding events to his life which completely go against the very fundamental principles of what he believed and fought for - Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

[randip singh]

SImply put, metaphors is when trying to describe a particular concept, idea or feeling the person uses a completely different example to help explain the original concept/idea/feeling.

For instance, gurbani states that for a SIkh, his GUru is vital to his existence.  Every step a Sikh takes, is centered around the teachings of his guru.  Gurbani uses the metaphor of a relationship between man and water to explain how important a guru is to a sikh.

ijau pRwxI jl ibnu hY mrqw iqau isKu gur ibnu mir jweI ]15]

Just as the mortal dies without water, so does the Sikh die without the Guru.

For a sikh, living a life wihout his guru, i.e. by not following the teachings of the guru, is like an ordinary man trying to survive without water.  Its impossible.

This same concept is explained using other metaphors in the following shabad.  As u will see, metaphors are merely examples of things which are common in everyday life, or things which ppl will understand more easily and are already familiar with.  By using these familiar examples, it helps the reader to understand new ideas the guru has put forth which may otherwise seem confusing or hard to grasp.

Agin mrY jlu pweIAY ijau bwirk dUDY mwie ]

As thirst is quenched with water, and the baby is satisfied with mother's milk,

ibnu jl kml su nw QIAY ibnu jl mInu mrwie ]

and as the lotus does not exist without water, and as the fish dies without water

nwnk gurmuiK hir ris imlY jIvw hir gux gwie ]8]15]-

O Nanak, so does the Gurmukh live, receiving the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. 

With regards to the Baba Deep Singh reference, what randeep singh said above is the essence of the story.  It doesnt matter which verison of the story we beleive, for it is but a story.  Whats more important than the story is the moral lesson or meaning behind the story which we should take home.  And that is to be willing to sacrifice everything for what we beleive in and willing to fight for that belief right till the end no matter how hard and impossible the odds seem stacked against us.

I realize many people have great respect for Baba Deep Singh, as do i.  I regard him as one of the finest examples of what a true Sikh embodies.  However, due to whatever reasons, certain historians, storywriters have added unnecessary miraculous events to the life of Baba Deep Singh.  Perhaps they feel like christians, a sikh needs to see his role models (gurus, purataan sikh) perform miracles or display supernatural powers in order for them to be inspired to follow them.  The true miracle is not the display of supernatural po0wers, which defy the laws of nature.  For me the true miracle is the lives of the gurus, and the sikhs of that time, who despite the most challenging and insurmountable odds and pressures were able to live a remarkable life using the same ordinary means as u and me (honest hard effort) that was completely void of any vice, of the highest moral character both in theory and practice and be able to stay completely merged with God throughout their life.

About the baba deep singh story, despite the most certain protest my post will bring on, i must state that NO SIKH (OR GURU) EVER ENGAGED IN ANY MIRACLE OR DISPLAY OF SUPERNATURAL POWER.  All sikhs lived by the hukam of God.  THey used the same means as those around them to fight for their belief.  They did not resort to any special means to stay alive and gain an extra few minutes of fighting for whatever reason they thought necessary.  Thousands of sikhs of that time lived lives of the same spiritual level as baba deep singh yet why is he the only one who felt the need to fight with his head cut off?  Just to fulfill his own prophecy?  Was he so full of ego that he couldnt bare to see his own words not come true?  And then he had to use special means or make a special prayer to god so that he could fulfill his own words?  How self-centered would that be?

When baba deep singh said i will not give up until i have reached darbar sahib, it does not mean he was willing to rely on miraculous powers simply to reach that site.  It was a means of inspriing his fellow men that they should be ready to give up all and die, anotherwords do whatever it takes to keep the torch of truth alive.

The same words of inspiration and asking of commitmment of the follower was used by guru nanak:

jau qau pRym Kylx kw cwau ]

If you desire to play this game of love with Me,

isru Dir qlI glI myrI Awau ]

then step onto My Path with your head in hand.

iequ mwrig pYru DrIjY ]

When you place your feet on this Path,

isru dIjY kwix n kIjY ]20]

give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion.

People often qoute the above lines when describing baba deep singhs saheedi, but they completely distort the true meaning of the shabad.  The guru is not saying to literally cut off ur head and come to me.  He is sayin be willing to give up everything and surrender ur completle self to me (i.e. give up ur own thinking, ur own mut, ur own ego).  Only then will u be able to follow this path for u wont care for ur own personal views, or the views of tothers, the only view whicih will matter is the view of the guru.  And then, if need be, be willing to die for this path of truth. 

A better translation of the above shabad would be:

"If you wish to play the game of love,

Come to me with readiness to die in your heart,

For on this path, even the first step should mean that

You will not hesitate to lay down your life - for righteousness."

So HEAD IS A METAPHOR TO REPRESENT BE WILLING TO SURRENDER ALL FOR THE CAUSE OF TRUTH.  The same way it used in the story (tho it wud have been better to avoid using that metaphor in the story to avoid the obvious confusion it creates amongst sikhs who blindly cling to the notion that this actually occurred)

The other shabad which ppl often use in support of this story is that written by bhagat kabir:

ggn dmwmw bwijE pirE nIswnY Gwau ]

The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted. 

Kyqu ju mWifE sUrmw Ab jUJn ko dwau ]1]

The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||

sUrw so pihcwnIAY ju lrY dIn ky hyq ]

He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion.

purjw purjw kit mrY kbhU n CwfY Kyqu ]2]2]

He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle.

There was no Khalsa army at that time, or even Sikhs around when Bhagat kabir wrote this.  SO which warrior is he talking about?  WHich battlefield is he talking about?  As with all gurbani, the focus is on the battlefield of the mind.  The focus in on the spiritual being, not the physical being.  FOr all physical things are temporary and fade with time, but the spiritual core is eternal.  What bhagat Ji is saying is that a true spiritual warrior is one who is able to fight off the five vices no matter how difficult it is.  One who never gives into these vices even for a single moment despite how hard it may be (i.e. emotionally, socially etc to live a pious spiritual life while all others engage in these immoral thoughts and behaviour all around u).  The wording is merely metaphors to describe this.

IF we take this literally then commen sense will tell us that no human being (regardless what we say bout things as naam kamaee or bhagtee) can walk around and do anything if they are cut into pieces.  Naam kamaee or bhagtee isnt a special mantra to give us supernatural powers, its an inner strength developed throught the recitation and understanding of gurbani to help us fight the evils of the mind.  So yes, i realize at first it may seem hard to beleive, even may be viewed as an insult to baba deep singh if we try to analyze this story and say certain aspects of it is false, but truly, is it not more of an insult to baba deep singh by adding events to his life which completely go against the very fundamental principles of what he believed and fought for - Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

149282[/snapback]

cracking post! :TH:

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

kharkoo4life good post!

[Trust1]

speechless

thanks to everyone who posted, :TH: i finally understand what people mean by metaphors :nihungsmile:

[Jai Tegang!]

Trust1,

Basically, some of our brothers and sisters are not comfortable enough in their faith to admit to certain events in our history. Certain events that they can't reconcile with science, then generally tend to downplay, often using the "metaphor" card to shun any potential sacrilege.

If every extraordinary event in Sikh history is termed a "metaphor", our history will appear as a big poem.

Do you think the Panja (handprint) of Guru Nanak Dev ji in Haassan Abdal is real?

Do you believe that Guru Gobind SIngh ji brought the Panj back to life?

Well, you'll be shocked to learn that some of our Sikh brothers don't believe in the above events. They think the Panja was fabricated (made up), that's why the SGPC doesn't recognize Panja Sahib gurdwara. They think Guru Gobind Singh ji beheaded goats instead of Panj Piarey.

These are same people who will tell you that Baba Deep SIngh ji didn't carry his head on his palm and continue fighting the enemy. They will tell you that the spot where Baba Deep Singh ji threw his head towards darbar Sahib isn't real. They will tell you that the spot where Baba Deep Singh ji's head landed in the parkarma isn't real ( that's why the SGPC demolished the spot from the parkarma).

Don't let these "metaphor" poets fool you.

[randip singh]

Trust1,

Basically, some of our brothers and sisters are not comfortable enough in their faith to admit to certain events in our history. Certain events that they can't reconcile with science, then generally tend to downplay, often using the "metaphor" card to shun any potential sacrilege.

If every extraordinary event in Sikh history is termed a "metaphor", our history will appear as a big poem.

Do you think the Panja (handprint) of Guru Nanak Dev ji in Haassan Abdal is real?

Do you believe that Guru Gobind SIngh ji brought the Panj back to life?

Well, you'll be shocked to learn that some of our Sikh brothers don't believe in the above events. They think the Panja was fabricated (made up), that's why the SGPC doesn't recognize Panja Sahib gurdwara. They think Guru Gobind Singh ji beheaded goats instead of Panj Piarey.

These are same people who will tell you that Baba Deep SIngh ji didn't carry his head on his palm and continue fighting the enemy. They will tell you that the spot where Baba Deep Singh ji threw his head towards darbar Sahib isn't real. They will tell you that the spot where Baba Deep Singh ji's head landed in the parkarma isn't real ( that's why the SGPC demolished the spot from the parkarma).

Don't let these "metaphor" poets fool you.

149389[/snapback]

here we go...as I predicted !

:H: :compress: _oh_OLD: