What's Up Canadian Sikhs?

[Jai Tegang!]

Let me just say that the youth here are so far away from Sikhi that it's almost comical to call them "Sikh boys". I know you guys in the UK are more accustomed to using the Sikh label for all people born into Sikh households, but here we don't do that. We usually call them Indo-Canadian gangsters, or Punjabi gangsters.

Like Japmans's said, Surrey has one of the tightest Sikh communities with tremendous sikh youth parchar (comparatively, of course) and general gurdwara parchar. The table/chair problems are long over and all gurdwaras are very peaceful. The "moderates" have their gurdwaras, and the "traditionalists" have their own, so there is no conflict anymore.

But Surrey also has the nastiest Punjabis living in it. The easy life culture that started a decade ago has affected a whole generation of Punjabi kids with majority following in the footsteps of their peers. Most Punjabi kids do horrible at school in Surrey, so they end up in either low-end jobs, or more likely in the criminal world.

The Surrey Punjabi/”sikh” community is so large that you just can’t pull it together anymore to bring change, as it might be possible in smaller communities.

Everyone has been complaining about kids turning “kharab” for the last ten years in Surrey, but that hasn’t meant any change. Neither will this discussion because the people reading it aren’t in that life anyway.

At least in other cities where Sikh youth turn away from Sikhi, they still end up getting decent jobs and don’t drift into the easy world of crime. But Surrey has this distinction. These kids barely pass highschool, not because they aren’t intelligent, but because it’s not “gangsta” to do well in school, very similar to the black culture in the US that keeps so many black youths from getting a proper education. The Universities in BC have such low numbers of Punjabi kids that it’s almost embarrassing for those of us who do make it there.

End of the day, this isn’t a “sikh” problem, it’s a problem of not living up to this label. If any of these kids had the slightest knowledge of Sikhi (which their parents didn’t bother teaching) they would understand what handwork, honest living, and high morals is all about.

The solution I have SEEN work: I know several former gangsters who have turned towards Sikhi, and at the same time turn around their lives. Some have even become kesadhari, while others are still shaven yet they now listen to kirtan twice a day, get together on weekends to do simran together. But they still constitute a tiny portion of the still lost wannabe youth.

It’s very hard to convince people who are over 20 to get out of the criminal world. They had flunked highschool, didn’t have the grades or skills to go to college, and are now so accustomed to the easy life of crime that they can’t fathom doing some low-end job, which is the only job they are capable of getting with their non-existent skills.

The only youth we can still help are the ones still in highschool. Tell them that without an education, they have very little options and a life of crime is not the best option. But sadly, all the youths above 20 that we now have in Surrey need some real strong motivation to not give up on life by taking the easy route.

Yeah, I could keep writing on this, but like someone told me, “build your own jeevan; then you can actually help this drowning world”.

[singh_comradz]

Let me just say that the youth here are so far away from Sikhi that it's almost comical to call them "Sikh boys". I know you guys in the UK are more accustomed to using the Sikh label for all people born into Sikh households, but here we don't do that. We usually call them Indo-Canadian gangsters, or Punjabi gangsters.

Like Japmans's said, Surrey has one of the tightest Sikh communities with tremendous sikh youth parchar (comparatively, of course) and general gurdwara parchar. The table/chair problems are long over and all gurdwaras are very peaceful. The "moderates" have their gurdwaras, and the "traditionalists" have their own, so there is no conflict anymore.

But Surrey also has the nastiest Punjabis living in it. The easy life culture that started a decade ago has affected a whole generation of Punjabi kids with majority following in the footsteps of their peers. Most Punjabi kids do horrible at school in Surrey, so they end up in either low-end jobs, or more likely in the criminal world.

The Surrey Punjabi/”sikh” community is so large that you just can’t pull it together anymore to bring change, as it might be possible in smaller communities.

Everyone has been complaining about kids turning “kharab” for the last ten years in Surrey, but that hasn’t meant any change. Neither will this discussion because the people reading it aren’t in that life anyway.

At least in other cities where Sikh youth turn away from Sikhi, they still end up getting decent jobs and don’t drift into the easy world of crime. But Surrey has this distinction. These kids barely pass highschool, not because they aren’t intelligent, but because it’s not “gangsta” to do well in school, very similar to the black culture in the US that keeps so many black youths from getting a proper education. The Universities in BC have such low numbers of Punjabi kids that it’s almost embarrassing for those of us who do make it there.

End of the day, this isn’t a “sikh” problem, it’s a problem of not living up to this label. If any of these kids had the slightest knowledge of Sikhi (which their parents didn’t bother teaching) they would understand what handwork, honest living, and high morals is all about.

The solution I have SEEN work: I know several former gangsters who have turned towards Sikhi, and at the same time turn around their lives. Some have even become kesadhari, while others are still shaven yet they now listen to kirtan twice a day, get together on weekends to do simran together. But they still constitute a tiny portion of the still lost wannabe youth.

It’s very hard to convince people who are over 20 to get out of the criminal world. They had flunked highschool, didn’t have the grades or skills to go to college, and are now so accustomed to the easy life of crime that they can’t fathom doing some low-end job, which is the only job they are capable of getting with their non-existent skills.

The only youth we can still help are the ones still in highschool. Tell them that without an education, they have very little options and a life of crime is not the best option. But sadly, all the youths above 20 that we now have in Surrey need some real strong motivation to not give up on life by taking the easy route.

Yeah, I could keep writing on this, but like someone told me, “build your own jeevan; then you can actually help this drowning world”.

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the UK isn't far behind too, not so much of a gang mentality here but our parents were so busy working and Sikh ideals weren't passed down that most of the youth have drifted away from Sikhi.

you'll get more punjabi youth united around a bottle of bacardi than anything to do with Sikhi. its a shame that the problem is so widespread that many of these ppl, regardless of which country they're are from sense a stigma attached to Sikhi.

but i've noticed that quite a few ppl have that little interest to learn about the faith but the stigma holds them back.

every generation of Sikhs have been put to the test and i guess this is ours

[Bored]

i live in ONtario, Canada. alot of gang violence happens here and punjabi r mostly responsible for it. there all wannabez. they look up to fake rap artissts and wanan b like them. drugs, weapons, crime, homicides at school and much more. they all want to blame cops for it. they all want to live the "gangster thug life" and b cool. they sell drugs cuz there lazi idiots who put the sikh and punjabi name in shame.

they all do it for rep i no all this because i use to get involved with it alot.

i believe parents can do alot to stop it but dont realli do much. if u find out that ur son/dhaughter is doing this. then there r many ways of solving it, (my favorite beat the crap out of em) these teens rnt going to stop on their own. getting locked up doesnt do anything. i had soo many sikh/punjabi friends that bin locked up for months and years and jus come out screwing up again. right now my gud friends bro has bin locked up 4 a month now for a fatel stabbing.(guy was very very close to death) the trial is still on.

they dont do it becuz of being pushed into it they just wanna b cool and show of wat there capable of doing and who can b the most fearied. but at the end it hits them and they wonder why the heck did i do this. ur left wit nothing, family left u, no money and working in factories for the rest of ur life.

i believe parents need to realli step up and make a differnece and not jus sit there and cry about it, kick em out or fix em up b4 it spoils all sikhs.

[Punjabi_Link]

Just everybody on this forum knows, some (maybe I should half) of these Jatt gangsters do come from religious Sikh family. So it wouldn't be fair to say that they parents don't have any knowledge about Sikhi at all.

Anyway, here in Toronto, there is a lot Jatt gangsters as well. I remember crew called "Punjabi Mafia" here in Toronto like 10 years ago. They did a lot of crazy things including raping women. Now in Toronto, the gang culture within’ the Jatt community isn't as bad compare to B.C., but there could be some improves made though.

[singh_comradz]

Just everybody on this forum knows, some (maybe I should half) of these Jatt gangsters do come from religious Sikh family.  So it wouldn't be fair to say that they parents don't have any knowledge about Sikhi at all. 

Anyway, here in Toronto, there is a lot Jatt gangsters as well.  I remember crew called "Punjabi Mafia" here in Toronto like 10 years ago.  They did a lot of crazy things including raping women.  Now in Toronto, the gang culture within’ the Jatt community isn't as bad compare to B.C., but there could be some improves made though.

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when i went toronto a couple years back my cousin told me that there's alot of conflict with the tamils there?!?

[Heera Singh]

it depends where you go... in parts of rexdale (where its gettin pretty bad) there's some ruckus wit tamilz, but mostly with kalays... in scarborough it goes both wayz... me and my boyz were down with a few tamil gangas... so it was like, punjabi's and tamilz vs chinese and blacks... but even in that.. there was madd ruckus between cultural gangs.. like most tamil gangs had beef wit eachother... most punjabi gangs had beef wit eachother... etc.. etc...

punjabi mafia was around more then 10 years ago.. i would say closer to 20... we were known as 'pm juniors' by many... i remember people yellin out 'PM' when they seen me and my friends walkin around.. I met some of the original PM guyz.. they're all older now.. married, families, etc... but i seen how they roll.. they got shotguns in their cars n what not.. but they mostly jus keep their own now.... rite now i's all them younger crews who tryin to make it big... i had ties with many of the gangs in scarborough/toronto area... if not directly, indirectly.. but tha's how it begins.. when u have a lot of boyz, u also have a lot of beef...

me and my friends couldn't go anywhere without gettin into some sort of ruckus... i'm glad i wasn't around often when things got too crazy... it started gettin serious when we started gettin involved wit gunz..

many of these people are not 'wannabe gangsters'... they ARE gangsters.. wannabe is someone who tries to rep that image.. sum1 who IS a gangster LIVES that lifestyle.. and i's not for 'show'... tha's what they know.. tha's what they are... tha's what they live... when ur at the age and you get into the lifestyle, i's like an adrenaline rush... most of my friends came from families where their dadz were alcoholics n what not... some of them came from good families, but when u get mixed up in the wrong crowd, i's hard to stop .. when ur on that ride, all you can think bout is drugz, sex, money etc... i's all about street respect.. if you rolll big, then peepz gonna fear and "respect" you... not to mention its a lot easier makin money by sellin drugs and stolen goods... and you make a lot more money.. with that, comes gurlz...

in brampton, where u got 80% of the population being punjabi... the situation is gettin worse... when you have an area of too much of one culture, things are alwayz bad... rite now in scarborough, you got tamils left, rite, and centre... and the situation is gettin REALLY bad... down by malvern you got mostly blacks/punjabis/tamilz... very bad there too.. it comes to a point where u don't walk the streets at nite in certain hoods, if you know wha's good for you... there's places where you don't even look at another person 'cause u so scared... there's been incidences where people get shot for givin sum1 else an awkward eye...

places like vancouver and toronto are bad because of the high immigration levels... vancouver u got most of the surroundin cities either run by chinese or punjabis.... toronto, i's run by a whole bunch'a diff cultures... tamil.. punjabi.. chinese.. italian.. persian... black... etc.. etc.. jus depends on which part of the city u go to... the situation aint gettin any better.. i's becoming more and more easier to get ur hands on drugs and guns... where i used to live, there was at least one or two shootings/stabbings a week..

some positive parchaar would make SOME difference, yes... but the sad truth is, most of these 'thugs' enjoy this lifestyle.. they don't wanna give it up.. they know they aint got no future, but they dun care... they livin in the NOW... they're whole mentality is 'yo you only live once.. so i'ma do what i do now, and live it up'.. tha's not to say that nothin should be done, but reality is that this type'a stuff alwayz gonna be around...

[singh_comradz]

it depends where you go... in parts of rexdale (where its gettin pretty bad) there's some ruckus wit tamilz, but mostly with kalays... in scarborough it goes both wayz... me and my boyz were down with a few tamil gangas... so it was like, punjabi's and tamilz vs chinese and blacks... but even in that.. there was madd ruckus between cultural gangs.. like most tamil gangs had beef wit eachother... most punjabi gangs had beef wit eachother... etc.. etc...

punjabi mafia was around more then 10 years ago.. i would say closer to 20... we were known as 'pm juniors' by many... i remember people yellin out 'PM' when they seen me and my friends walkin around.. I met some of the original PM guyz.. they're all older now.. married, families, etc... but i seen how they roll.. they got shotguns in their cars n what not.. but they mostly jus keep their own now.... rite now i's all them younger crews who tryin to make it big... i had ties with many of the gangs in scarborough/toronto area... if not directly, indirectly.. but tha's how it begins.. when u have a lot of boyz, u also have a lot of beef...

me and my friends couldn't go anywhere without gettin into some sort of ruckus... i'm glad i wasn't around often when things got too crazy... it started gettin serious when we started gettin involved wit gunz..

many of these people are not 'wannabe gangsters'... they ARE gangsters.. wannabe is someone who tries to rep that image.. sum1 who IS a gangster LIVES that lifestyle.. and i's not for 'show'... tha's what they know.. tha's what they are... tha's what they live... when ur at the age and you get into the lifestyle, i's like an adrenaline rush... most of my friends came from families where their dadz were alcoholics n what not... some of them came from good families, but when u get mixed up in the wrong crowd, i's hard to stop .. when ur on that ride, all you can think bout is drugz, sex, money etc... i's all about street respect.. if you rolll big, then peepz gonna fear and "respect" you... not to mention its a lot easier makin money by sellin drugs and stolen goods... and you make a lot more money.. with that, comes gurlz...

in brampton, where u got 80% of the population being punjabi... the situation is gettin worse... when you have an area of too much of one culture, things are alwayz bad... rite now in scarborough, you got tamils left, rite, and centre... and the situation is gettin REALLY bad... down by malvern you got mostly blacks/punjabis/tamilz... very bad there too.. it comes to a point where u don't walk the streets at nite in certain hoods, if you know wha's good for you... there's places where you don't even look at another person 'cause u so scared... there's been incidences where people get shot for givin sum1 else an awkward eye...

places like vancouver and toronto are bad because of the high immigration levels... vancouver u got most of the surroundin cities either run by chinese or punjabis.... toronto, i's run by a whole bunch'a diff cultures... tamil.. punjabi.. chinese.. italian.. persian... black... etc.. etc.. jus depends on which part of the city u go to... the situation aint gettin any better.. i's becoming more and more easier to get ur hands on drugs and guns... where i used to live, there was at least one or two shootings/stabbings a week..

some positive parchaar would make SOME difference, yes... but the sad truth is, most of these 'thugs' enjoy this lifestyle.. they don't wanna give it up.. they know they aint got no future, but they dun care... they livin in the NOW... they're whole mentality is 'yo you only live once.. so i'ma do what i do now, and live it up'.. tha's not to say that nothin should be done, but reality is that this type'a stuff alwayz gonna be around...

158259[/snapback]

thanks for the info!

yeh i remember going to the malkit singh concert thing in wonderland a couple years back. you could tell who the 'bad boys' were cus they all stood at the back n had the baggy clothes hip hop look!

[Heera Singh]

dude... goin to ANY brown day at wonderland, ur jus ASKIN for beef.... don't matter if u jus doin ur own thing, these drunk punjabi guyz jus want ruckus.. and its WORSE if ur a gurl... all the indian guyz get drunk and like stalk them... there's been several rapes in the parking lots on indian dayz as well.... i's very unsafe for gurlz ...

[_K_]

dude... goin to ANY brown day at wonderland, ur jus ASKIN for beef.... don't matter if u jus doin ur own thing, these drunk punjabi guyz jus want ruckus..  and its WORSE if ur a gurl... all the indian guyz get drunk and like stalk them... there's been several rapes in the parking lots on indian dayz as well.... i's very unsafe for gurlz ...

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reeeaaallly sad 2 hear stuff like that is going on...

are guns legal in canada?? that could have something 2 do with the gun crime Prem speaks of. Even here in the Uk we are beginning 2 c an increase in gun crime its reeeaaly worrying, i know of a couple of sikh guys who carry guns with them... whyyyy???!?! i don't understand it, but hey atleast i can say i haven't heard anything abt rapes goin on.... so on a "brown" day, the rapes u speak of Heera Ji, they are raping their own "sisters"

im realy shocked by this, i'v never been 2 canada myself, but i'v been told by many other people thet have been the punjabis over there are really backward, like the kids are sssoooo weelll behaved and deeply religious... i guess that ony goes 4 a few people then.

[singh_comradz]

dude... goin to ANY brown day at wonderland, ur jus ASKIN for beef.... don't matter if u jus doin ur own thing, these drunk punjabi guyz jus want ruckus..  and its WORSE if ur a gurl... all the indian guyz get drunk and like stalk them... there's been several rapes in the parking lots on indian dayz as well.... i's very unsafe for gurlz ...

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