Attention: Subway Eaters!

[MAX]

Thanks Randip for your post, but again like it's been said it makes no difference, I keep posting stuff to prove you wrong and you and max can do they same. It is pointless. If have made up your mind then there is no need to post Gurbani or any other Sikhism links to match your thinking. If you're gonna eat it because YOU think that it is right, then fine, but don't use Gurbani or what you think Guru Sahib thinks as a form of support because it doesn't work.

Enjoy the filth. :TH:

Patronise much?

[MAX]

I can't believe you wrote that.

Yeah. An opinion. Call the cops :|

Do Ardaas for some more respect for the Guru Sahibaan.

But I do respect them. I thought I'd made that much clear.

Just because you and I believe the Gurus to be different in their nature (i.e. mortal versus divine), that doesn't mean anyone respects them any less.

And I don't believe in magic spells to make things 'happen', either. But thanks.

They were not 'men' that came here to teach, they were messengers of God. Not mortals like you and me.

Funny, then, how they all died. One of them even got chicken pox and died as a child.

Trust me, if they weren't men and were indeed 'Divine', then their messages and actions of self-sacrifice would mean a lot less. The fact that they were men and lead by example to other men on how life should be lead is more powerful than a one-dimensional pocket toy of some dietic, Hindu-esque God.

Learn to show respect. You think you are of high intellect. But remember, the path to God is through the heart, not the mind.

"One may read for years and for years,

And spend every month of the year in reading only;

And thus read all one's life,

Right up to one's last breath.

Of all things, a contemplative life

Is really what matters;

All else is the fret and fever of egoistic minds."

Guru Granth Sahib

Asa, p.468

To read without contemplation is dangerous.

That is what many Sikkhs do; they read the texts of the Granth, mistaking deep and meditative poetic metaphors for literal and miscontrued meanings, often influenced by third parties such as gyanis or other 'authorities' on Sikkh scripture.

Hence, the mind matters. But only when it's not holding on to the pride and ego of 'being Sikkh' or what people think 'being Sikkh' means, as per the instruction of those third parties.

Read gurbäni with a pure heart and an untainted mind and you shall find what you seek...and it shall be greater than anything you could imagine at this time. You just have to tear open the cardboard box whose tiny peephole you are using to inform you of a much larger world than you thought existed.

I don't wanna keep posting on this thread because what you and Randip write and what I keep posting is repetitive.

Hush a moment.

Do you hear that?

It's your heart. It speaks to you.

It is the True Guru that is connected to God.

Your own conscience.

God has given us the tools. We just have to learn how to use them.

Gurbäni can guide us. But it is only the means to an end.

It's like the stabalisers you wear when learning to ride a bike. And just like when you're a kid, you don't want to let go of those stabalisers. But eventually, you do. And the rewards are greater than when you were bound by those stabalisers.

You know, "free your mind" and all that lark :TH:

[Singhstah]

screw this, you guys are alyways gonna try to twist sikhi to suit your views. But has human beings, think about it, You like eating bodies?

urgh

and a not on Guroo Sahib, just because Guroo sahib hunted (for watevr reason u belive),They ere his animals to hunt, Guroo ji owns the world, and all creatures on it, for him hunting a deer and shooting it would have been the same as it dying of 'natural' cuases, as they both are from his hukam

and MAX you are crazy, to a khalsa gurbani is the be al, and end all, and stays deep in the soul of a gurmukh and guides them forever. something a patit would never understand

[randip singh]

screw this, you guys are alyways gonna try to twist sikhi to suit your views. But has human beings, think about it, You like eating bodies?

urgh

and a not on Guroo Sahib, just because Guroo sahib hunted (for watevr reason u belive),They ere his animals to hunt, Guroo ji owns the world, and all creatures on it, for him hunting a deer and shooting it would have been the same as it dying of 'natural' cuases, as they both are from his hukam

Ok...let me give you just one example of how people twist the entire debate on this issue:

from http://panthkhalsa.org/rahit/rahit_kuthha.php

vii) Mohsin Fani (1615-70), the well known historian and a contemporary of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, writes in his work DABISTAN-E- MAZAHIB as follows:

"Having prohibited his disciples to drink wine and eat pork, he (Nanak) himself abstained from eating flesh and ordered not to hurt any living being. After him this precept was neglected by his followers; but Aijun Mal, one of the substitutes of his Faith, renewed the prohibition to eat flesh and said: This has not been approved by Nanak"

and here is the actual translation fro the article:

This need to cause division amongst Sikhs may even be traced earlier. In ‘Mobad’ Dabistan-I Mazahib 1645-46, the author states:

Many person became his disciples. Nanak believed in the Oneness of God and in the way that it is asserted in Muhammadan theology. He also believed in transmigration of souls. Holding wine and pork to be unlawful, he had [himself] abandoned eating meat. He decreed avoidance of causing harm to animals. It was after his time that meat-eating spread amongst his followers. Arjan Mal, who was on of his lineal succesors, found this to be evil. He prohibited people from eating meat, saying “This is not in accordance with Nanak’s wishes”. Later, Hargobind, son of Arjan Mal, ate meat and took to hunting. Most of their [the Gurus] followers adopted his practice.

You tell me Singstah....who is playing silly game now...............half baked "historians" on pathkhalsa.....or intellectuals/historians and Gursikhs who compiled this essay to show why this issue has no meaning for sikhs?

Now Sikhs of the past have never had problems with this issue. Jhatka eating Nihungs happily were welcomed by Bhai Randhir Singh, yet the New Age Masands of today are making an issue of this and creating division amongst Sikhs when there is none?

Like I said....either debate the entire article....word by word.... point by point or stay silent on an issue in which the knowledge of the people on this forum seems limited.

Thanks :TH:

PS ....and stop making hysterical remarks about people eating dead bodies....Thanks. :|

Trust me, if they weren't men and were indeed 'Divine', then their messages and actions of self-sacrifice would mean a lot less. The fact that they were men and lead by example to other men on how life should be lead is more powerful than a one-dimensional pocket toy of some dietic, Hindu-esque God.

Good point....otherwise Sikhism is likely to become Hinduism 2.

[taran_kaur]

randip, rather then givin links with loads of rubbish on maybe u shud jus speak and argue for yourself

firstly yes, when guru gobind singh ji killed animals they were given mukti. full stop

it sounds so stupid tht sum1 hu eats meat is tryin 2 call themselves a sikh

and the point about whateva ur panj says goes is also rubbish

if ur panj tell u to do somet manmat (ie. eat meat) they are not actaully panj pyare, panj payreh represent guru gobind singh, guru gobind singh would never tell his sikhs to eat meat.

its disgusting, eating a dead animal. and one of u meat eaters has admited tht its for the tast. therefore following his mind (man) therefore manmat

if u cannot see the difference between eating a plant and an animal you are blind. the tuk randip gave does not say anywhere tht rock is the same as animal, it simply says tht they have souls.

eating an animal is the worst form of jooth you can get, if u can kill an animal why not kill a man? plants are different, they dont have eyes, ears nose, etc. they dont scream in pain when u kill them.

if u want to eat crap then go ahead but dont you dare say that it is in accordance with sikhi.

IF YOU EAT MEAT YOU ARE NOT A SIKH

yeah please name some chardikala gursikh who ate meat, the fact is there aint none. cos if u eat meat ur not chardikala, YOU R PAAPI

and notice i didnt adress u by randip singh, because a singh of guru gobind singh would not eat meat

btw this amarjeet singh tarrandeeps brother

[MAX]

screw this, you guys are alyways gonna try to twist sikhi to suit your views.

No, it's just that Sikkhi has already undergone its 'twisting' over a number of centuries.

I'm just attempting to untie those knots I see.

But has human beings, think about it, You like eating bodies?

urgh

You obviously haven't tasted my mum's jïra chicken yet :|

If we're not eating the flesh of animals, then we're eating the flesh of plants. Either way, we are killing living things to feed ourselves. This is how the world has always worked.

It's called 'the food chain'. You may have heard of it...

and a not on Guroo Sahib, just because Guroo sahib hunted (for watevr reason u belive),They ere his animals to hunt, Guroo ji owns the world, and all creatures on it, for him hunting a deer and shooting it would have been the same as it dying of 'natural' cuases, as they both are from his hukam

Wow. And then people wonder why we get called "Hindus".

Is there any proof you can offer me that this statement is true? Or are you just making excuses - to defend what you think is a valid belief - at the expense of your own credibility.

I suspect that it is the latter.

and MAX you are crazy, to a khalsa gurbani is the be al, and end all, and stays deep in the soul of a gurmukh and guides them forever. something a patit would never understand

Yes, that's right. I'm crazy. Me.

Not the ones who worry about whether wearing elasticated underpants will send them to Hell, or those who believe that a man who lived, breathed and died as all men was some kind of self-appointed 'owner of the world'.

That's not crazy at all

[MAX]

randip, rather then givin links with loads of rubbish on maybe u shud jus speak and argue for yourself

I believe that the reason he is providing quotes is an attempt to disprove your proceeding statement, that "IF YOU EAT MEAT YOU ARE NOT A SIKH".

firstly yes, when guru gobind singh ji killed animals they were given mukti. full stop

Yeah, uh-huh.

Say, I saw the tooth fairy last night. She told me that she was impressed at how white my teeth were as a kid and gave me a £6 bonus.

What? You don't believe me?!

I'm telling you that this is what happened! Full stop!

:|

it sounds so stupid tht sum1 hu eats meat is tryin 2 call themselves a sikh

and the point about whateva ur panj says goes is also rubbish

if ur panj tell u to do somet manmat (ie. eat meat) they are not actaully panj pyare, panj payreh represent guru gobind singh, guru gobind singh would never tell his sikhs to eat meat.

I believe that Randip has provided evidence to the contrary.

its disgusting, eating a dead animal. and one of u meat eaters has admited tht its for the tast. therefore following his mind (man) therefore manmat

Well, that's your opinion that "it's disgusting". You are, of course, entitled to it. But I can assure you that there is nothing disgusting about the food I eat.

Oh, and you don't actually know what the term "manmat" means, so I'd advise that you refrain from using it.

if u cannot see the difference between eating a plant and an animal you are blind.

Really? Then do tell us what that difference is.

the tuk randip gave does not say anywhere tht rock is the same as animal, it simply says tht they have souls.

eating an animal is the worst form of jooth you can get, if u can kill an animal why not kill a man?

Oh, don't worry...Sikkhs did plenty of that as well.

plants are different, they dont have eyes, ears nose, etc. they dont scream in pain when u kill them.

"We weep for the cry of a bird,

But not for the blood of a fish.

Blessed are those who have a voice."

if u want to eat crap then go ahead but dont you dare say that it is in accordance with sikhi.

IF YOU EAT MEAT YOU ARE NOT A SIKH

And someone with this much anger is not a Sikkh, either.

yeah please name some chardikala gursikh who ate meat, the fact is there aint none. cos if u eat meat ur not chardikala, YOU R PAAPI

"Who's your Daddy"? :wub:

and notice i didnt adress u by randip singh, because a singh of guru gobind singh would not eat meat

btw this amarjeet singh tarrandeeps brother

Aw, bless. Denial.

:TH:

[Bhai Sahib]

The only reason I eat meat (not religiously slaughtered) is because Sikhi says it's OK.

And my children have also been raised to believe this.

I want to congratulate and thank Randip Singh for all the effort he has put into combating the false notions that lie within the topic of diet within Sikhism.

Your posts (as well as MAX) have been articulate, thought provoking and very well presented.

It's good to see the true and logical essence of Sikhi being presented.

Keep up the good work! :TH:

:a+

[taran_kaur]

poor people have completely lost it

next they'll be saying we can cut our hair too, its all about the inside

[Akali_Sodhi]

dnt cut ur toe nails or u might have to go pesh !!!!!