Delhi - A Novel

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

got your PM singh soorma, all i can say is don't waste my time.

you gave your mouse idiom example to me...well i hope you can read gurmukhi because the scanned pages of the book also call sant ji a "bigger pagal(cray man) than budh singh" so you didn't manage to give me an old idiom for that one.

look man. i don't care about your philisophical views about Kushwant, your getting all these posts because you wrote about sikhs deceiving Indira and not doing something better. If you fail to see the error in this then there is no point.

read up on the jeevans and shaheedi of bhai beant singh and bhai satwant singh. you have no right whatsoever to question the actions of these barve sons of the panth. no right whatsoever.

it has been over 20 years "singh soorma" your india still writes that guru tegh bahadur was a dacoit in history books and calls sikhs hindus in the constitution. you talk about the great four...

Hindu's are in power politically, economically, socially, and academically. These four things revolve around each other. If we want to fulfill our demand we must conquer these four ally's.

chalo let's tackle this great theory of yours:

1) politically: Manmohan Sio is the PM of the country. first sikh PM. Tytler was in his cabinet. hasn't magaed to even get a memorial made for 1984 delhi pogrom victims. there goes nunber 1 of your four allies.

2) Economically: Punjab is a economic disaster. The economy of teh country is controlled by the central government. your a learned man and probbaly know that punjab has no right over t's river waters and the electricity pool ignores the demand of power for punjba. chalo, there goes economic power.

3) Socially: The sikh more so the punjabi culture is very dominant in indian society. The social values of sikhs are very well known so much so that the wider hindu culture of bollywood has made it a source of humiliation of teh sikh community. Good luck taking over the social fabric of 900 million hindus with a billion dollar media industry.

4) academically: sikhs have good representation in all professional fields. however, being smart, has never won anyone freedom or rights. look at history. no one claimed to be smarter than the brahmin pandits, but their smartness couldn't stop the mughals from taking their daughters to be sld in afghanistan.

"singh soorma" you've just digged yourself a hole and and now are using the typical indian sikh approach of using "idioms" and other "academic" approaches a la Kushwant singh to impress people to the point taht they will just bow down to your academic "prowess" and accept your argument as a valid option to the accepted struggle by the sikh nation.

good luck.

peace.

[$ingh $oorma]

got your PM singh soorma, all i can say is don't waste my time.

you gave your mouse idiom example to me...well i hope you can read gurmukhi because the scanned pages of the book also call sant ji a "bigger pagal(cray man) than budh singh" so you didn't manage to give me an old idiom for that one.

look man. i don't care about your philisophical views about Kushwant, your getting all these posts because you wrote about sikhs deceiving Indira and not doing something better. If you fail to see the error in this then there is no point.

read up on the jeevans and shaheedi of bhai beant singh and bhai satwant singh. you have no right whatsoever to question the actions of these barve sons of the panth. no right whatsoever.

it has been over 20 years "singh soorma" your india still writes that guru tegh bahadur was a dacoit in history books and calls sikhs hindus in the constitution. you talk about the great four...

Hindu's are in power politically, economically, socially, and academically. These four things revolve around each other. If we want to fulfill our demand we must conquer these four ally's.

chalo let's tackle this great theory of yours:

1) politically: Manmohan Sio is the PM of the country. first sikh PM. Tytler was in his cabinet. hasn't magaed to even get a memorial made for 1984 delhi pogrom victims. there goes nunber 1 of your four allies.

2) Economically: Punjab is a economic disaster. The economy of teh country is controlled by the central government. your a learned man and probbaly know that punjab has no right over t's river waters and the electricity pool ignores the demand of power for punjba. chalo, there goes economic power.

3) Socially: The sikh more so the punjabi culture is very dominant in indian society. The social values of sikhs are very well known so much so that the wider hindu culture of bollywood has made it a source of humiliation of teh sikh community. Good luck taking over the social fabric of 900 million hindus with a billion dollar media industry.

4) academically: sikhs have good representation in all professional fields. however, being smart, has never won anyone freedom or rights. look at history. no one claimed to be smarter than the brahmin pandits, but their smartness couldn't stop the mughals from taking their daughters to be sld in afghanistan.

"singh soorma" you've just digged yourself a hole and and now are using the typical indian sikh approach of using "idioms" and other "academic" approaches a la Kushwant singh to impress people to the point taht they will just bow down to your academic "prowess" and accept your argument as a valid option to the accepted struggle by the sikh nation.

good luck.

peace.

There goes another one, looks like you didn't red the topic throughly and just paid attention to bold points. And the 4 allys you showed goes against you, and your post. I am here to encourage that we control those four allys and do good for panth.. If there is traitor controlling those so we should take over... Those times were different. If you are academically strong you can get a proffesional job, stand out in politics and leadthe economy, then see what happens.. a man with good deeds and these 4 allys can bring light to panth again in India, can rule it bytaking over from anti-sikh govt....

If you don't still get it PM me on MSN or AIM.. Just remember its easy to tackle a killer who has no idea then one who's outsmarting you, but still the outsmarter will lose thats the law of nature.. a killer is a killer..

All i want to say again, is Sikhs should rise above the past and get a grip of academics, politics, economy and society.. I said it beofre and will say it again If not now then we will NEVER. you mentioned guru ji being called dacoit in books, whose fault is that, think for a while and you will say its OURS. Why? We were unable to get someone in the board...

All it matters at the end is ONE man...

[$ingh $oorma]

And if you read carefully some of the topics at sikhsangat, think carefully you will find an answer at the end that "We" are the answer to "Our" problems. If we need something changed we must get a grip of that, instead of hoping that someone else will listen to you or pay attention to our 5-20 men "Jaloos" in nation of millions...

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

Singh Soorma - you smack yourself of ego - the way you are ridiculing sangat here as opposed to posting sense making rebuttals.

If Beant singh was not assassinated many more thousand sikhs would have been tortured to death - same for police officers like Gobind Ram.

Similarly if Indira was not killed, she'd have unleased even more vicious campaign against sikhs.

Your arguement that "raising sword was good in the past (like in ages of gurus) and this is the age of forgiveness" is the most nonsensical I have heard in long time.

[Jaspaul Singh]

answer me this bro .. if "forgiving" is ur way of life.. why did our gurus raise the sword and punished those that were doing injustice..

i DONT think i need to give you examples!

dhan dhan sri guru hargobind saahib ji .. miri-piri de maalak!

Jaspaul veer you dont make anysense .. they shoudln't have raised their swords..they should have instead looked for ways to kill egos .

what ????

[khalsaforce]

ok so we take 2 gurus out now and we have 9 guru's left according to ur peaceful theory. singho take ur kirpan off and keep ur 4 kakkars on.

brother time never changes, its people who change themselves. time stays the same, people do everything in the world. We are sons maharaj guru gobind singh jee, we have more tyrants in todays world then in past times, will u forgive osama bin ladin if he had killed that many sikhs?I wouldn't becasue sometimes death is the only good thing for those kind of people. If there was only forgiveness in todays kalyug then there would been 1000 deaths every day maybe more. U are right today is different world, we have advanced tachnology with superior weapons then past shastars our guru jee had put everything else is same. we have saintsoldiers to finish tyranny everywhere from different religion or at different locations. thats why death is very important for those who deserve death after killing innocent people.U can forgive the killer who killed ur mother father but if someone attacks the panth and our guru or our sangat he is goin to pay for it no matter what.Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, also encouraged and taught his followers, of which a majority joined his army to keep fit and practice Gatka, along with their NITNEM

"Guru Gobind appeared in the world as the tenth incarnation. he recited the name of the creator who is unseen, eternal, and saintliness. He established the Khalsa, a sect of his own, and gave it great glory. Wearing long hair he grasped the sword and smothered his enemies. He put on the breeches of self-restraint and practiced arms. He established the Sikh war-cry and was victorious in mighty battles. thus arose the race of Singhs who wore blue clothes. Gobind Singh! You were both Guru and disciple!"

U were givin quotes about forgiveness, let me give u a quote that dashmesh pita gave us.

"When all other means have failed, It is then righteous to take the sword in the hand."ZAFARNAMA

"The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny." Guru sahib jee da khalsa jaunda and hakh lao kaum lai.

This is when we use our swords.

"incident in India, after the prime ministers' death, an eighty year old man was attacked whilst riding his scooter in Delhi by a mass of 3000 people. He was forced to defend himself and so took out his Kirpan (sword) and using his knowledge of Gatka, seriously injured and killed many of his attackers. When the police arrived at the scene the attackers fled, one of the officers present at the attack reported "all I could see was an old man standing sword in hand and numerous dead body's lying around him."

ਗੁਰਸਨਹ ਚਿਹ ਕਾਰੇ ਚਿਹਲ ਨਰ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਹ ਲਕ ਬਰਾਯਦ ਬਰੋ ਬੇਖ਼ਬਰ ॥੧੯॥

How could forty famished persons fight in the battlefield, on whom ten lakh soldiers made a sudden attack.19.

ਕਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਮਿਯਾਂ ਤੇਗ਼ੋ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੦॥

Your army breaking the oath and in great haste plunged in the battlefield with arrows and guns.20.

ਬ ਲਾਚਾਰਗੀ ਦਰਮਿਯਾਂ ਆਮਦਮ ॥ ਬ ਤਦਬੀਰਿ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦਮ ॥੨੧॥

For this reason, I had to intervene and had to come fully armed.21.

ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥

When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

[$ingh $oorma]

ok so we take 2 gurus out now and we have 9 guru's left according to ur peaceful theory. singho take ur kirpan off and keep ur 4 kakkars on.

brother time never changes, its people who change themselves. time stays the same, people do everything in the world. We are sons maharaj guru gobind singh jee, we have more tyrants in todays world then in past times, will u forgive osama bin ladin if he had killed that many sikhs?I wouldn't becasue sometimes death is the only good thing for those kind of people. If there was only forgiveness in todays kalyug then there would been 1000 deaths every day maybe more. U are right today is different world, we have advanced tachnology with superior weapons then past shastars our guru jee had put everything else is same. we have saintsoldiers to finish tyranny everywhere from different religion or at different locations. thats why death is very important for those who deserve death after killing innocent people.U can forgive the killer who killed ur mother father but if someone attacks the panth and our guru or our sangat he is goin to pay for it no matter what.Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, also encouraged and taught his followers, of which a majority joined his army to keep fit and practice Gatka, along with their NITNEM

"Guru Gobind appeared in the world as the tenth incarnation. he recited the name of the creator who is unseen, eternal, and saintliness. He established the Khalsa, a sect of his own, and gave it great glory. Wearing long hair he grasped the sword and smothered his enemies. He put on the breeches of self-restraint and practiced arms. He established the Sikh war-cry and was victorious in mighty battles. thus arose the race of Singhs who wore blue clothes. Gobind Singh! You were both Guru and disciple!"

U were givin quotes about forgiveness, let me give u a quote that dashmesh pita gave us.

"When all other means have failed, It is then righteous to take the sword in the hand."ZAFARNAMA

"The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny." Guru sahib jee da khalsa jaunda and hakh lao kaum lai.

This is when we use our swords.

"incident in India, after the prime ministers' death, an eighty year old man was attacked whilst riding his scooter in Delhi by a mass of 3000 people. He was forced to defend himself and so took out his Kirpan (sword) and using his knowledge of Gatka, seriously injured and killed many of his attackers. When the police arrived at the scene the attackers fled, one of the officers present at the attack reported "all I could see was an old man standing sword in hand and numerous dead body's lying around him."

ਗੁਰਸਨਹ ਚਿਹ ਕਾਰੇ ਚਿਹਲ ਨਰ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਹ ਲਕ ਬਰਾਯਦ ਬਰੋ ਬੇਖ਼ਬਰ ॥੧੯॥

How could forty famished persons fight in the battlefield, on whom ten lakh soldiers made a sudden attack.19.

ਕਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਮਿਯਾਂ ਤੇਗ਼ੋ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੦॥

Your army breaking the oath and in great haste plunged in the battlefield with arrows and guns.20.

ਬ ਲਾਚਾਰਗੀ ਦਰਮਿਯਾਂ ਆਮਦਮ ॥ ਬ ਤਦਬੀਰਿ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦਮ ॥੨੧॥

For this reason, I had to intervene and had to come fully armed.21.

ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥

When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier..

Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

[khalsaforce]

i said time stays the same, people do different things in the world but timestays the same. i never said man changes time?

ok so we take 2 gurus out now and we have 9 guru's left according to ur peaceful theory. singho take ur kirpan off and keep ur 4 kakkars on.

brother time never changes, its people who change themselves. time stays the same, people do everything in the world. We are sons maharaj guru gobind singh jee, we have more tyrants in todays world then in past times, will u forgive osama bin ladin if he had killed that many sikhs?I wouldn't becasue sometimes death is the only good thing for those kind of people. If there was only forgiveness in todays kalyug then there would been 1000 deaths every day maybe more. U are right today is different world, we have advanced tachnology with superior weapons then past shastars our guru jee had put everything else is same. we have saintsoldiers to finish tyranny everywhere from different religion or at different locations. thats why death is very important for those who deserve death after killing innocent people.U can forgive the killer who killed ur mother father but if someone attacks the panth and our guru or our sangat he is goin to pay for it no matter what.Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, also encouraged and taught his followers, of which a majority joined his army to keep fit and practice Gatka, along with their NITNEM

"Guru Gobind appeared in the world as the tenth incarnation. he recited the name of the creator who is unseen, eternal, and saintliness. He established the Khalsa, a sect of his own, and gave it great glory. Wearing long hair he grasped the sword and smothered his enemies. He put on the breeches of self-restraint and practiced arms. He established the Sikh war-cry and was victorious in mighty battles. thus arose the race of Singhs who wore blue clothes. Gobind Singh! You were both Guru and disciple!"

U were givin quotes about forgiveness, let me give u a quote that dashmesh pita gave us.

"When all other means have failed, It is then righteous to take the sword in the hand."ZAFARNAMA

"The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny." Guru sahib jee da khalsa jaunda and hakh lao kaum lai.

This is when we use our swords.

"incident in India, after the prime ministers' death, an eighty year old man was attacked whilst riding his scooter in Delhi by a mass of 3000 people. He was forced to defend himself and so took out his Kirpan (sword) and using his knowledge of Gatka, seriously injured and killed many of his attackers. When the police arrived at the scene the attackers fled, one of the officers present at the attack reported "all I could see was an old man standing sword in hand and numerous dead body's lying around him."

ਗੁਰਸਨਹ ਚਿਹ ਕਾਰੇ ਚਿਹਲ ਨਰ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਹ ਲਕ ਬਰਾਯਦ ਬਰੋ ਬੇਖ਼ਬਰ ॥੧੯॥

How could forty famished persons fight in the battlefield, on whom ten lakh soldiers made a sudden attack.19.

ਕਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਮਿਯਾਂ ਤੇਗ਼ੋ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੦॥

Your army breaking the oath and in great haste plunged in the battlefield with arrows and guns.20.

ਬ ਲਾਚਾਰਗੀ ਦਰਮਿਯਾਂ ਆਮਦਮ ॥ ਬ ਤਦਬੀਰਿ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦਮ ॥੨੧॥

For this reason, I had to intervene and had to come fully armed.21.

ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥

When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier..

Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

[$ingh $oorma]

You forgot to read it again...

i said time stays the same, people do different things in the world but timestays the same. i never said man changes time?

ok so we take 2 gurus out now and we have 9 guru's left according to ur peaceful theory. singho take ur kirpan off and keep ur 4 kakkars on.

brother time never changes, its people who change themselves. time stays the same, people do everything in the world. We are sons maharaj guru gobind singh jee, we have more tyrants in todays world then in past times, will u forgive osama bin ladin if he had killed that many sikhs?I wouldn't becasue sometimes death is the only good thing for those kind of people. If there was only forgiveness in todays kalyug then there would been 1000 deaths every day maybe more. U are right today is different world, we have advanced tachnology with superior weapons then past shastars our guru jee had put everything else is same. we have saintsoldiers to finish tyranny everywhere from different religion or at different locations. thats why death is very important for those who deserve death after killing innocent people.U can forgive the killer who killed ur mother father but if someone attacks the panth and our guru or our sangat he is goin to pay for it no matter what.Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, also encouraged and taught his followers, of which a majority joined his army to keep fit and practice Gatka, along with their NITNEM

"Guru Gobind appeared in the world as the tenth incarnation. he recited the name of the creator who is unseen, eternal, and saintliness. He established the Khalsa, a sect of his own, and gave it great glory. Wearing long hair he grasped the sword and smothered his enemies. He put on the breeches of self-restraint and practiced arms. He established the Sikh war-cry and was victorious in mighty battles. thus arose the race of Singhs who wore blue clothes. Gobind Singh! You were both Guru and disciple!"

U were givin quotes about forgiveness, let me give u a quote that dashmesh pita gave us.

"When all other means have failed, It is then righteous to take the sword in the hand."ZAFARNAMA

"The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny." Guru sahib jee da khalsa jaunda and hakh lao kaum lai.

This is when we use our swords.

"incident in India, after the prime ministers' death, an eighty year old man was attacked whilst riding his scooter in Delhi by a mass of 3000 people. He was forced to defend himself and so took out his Kirpan (sword) and using his knowledge of Gatka, seriously injured and killed many of his attackers. When the police arrived at the scene the attackers fled, one of the officers present at the attack reported "all I could see was an old man standing sword in hand and numerous dead body's lying around him."

ਗੁਰਸਨਹ ਚਿਹ ਕਾਰੇ ਚਿਹਲ ਨਰ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਹ ਲਕ ਬਰਾਯਦ ਬਰੋ ਬੇਖ਼ਬਰ ॥੧੯॥

How could forty famished persons fight in the battlefield, on whom ten lakh soldiers made a sudden attack.19.

ਕਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਮਿਯਾਂ ਤੇਗ਼ੋ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੦॥

Your army breaking the oath and in great haste plunged in the battlefield with arrows and guns.20.

ਬ ਲਾਚਾਰਗੀ ਦਰਮਿਯਾਂ ਆਮਦਮ ॥ ਬ ਤਦਬੀਰਿ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦਮ ॥੨੧॥

For this reason, I had to intervene and had to come fully armed.21.

ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥

When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier..

Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

[$ingh $oorma]

If one reads the gurbani and understands it and the history along with it, will notice that the events that took place in past COLLIDE parallely with some base things in Sikhism.

Everything that happens, happens in raja of waheguru, and happens for good. One must always stay in Chardi Kala, Always have a positive, optimistic and buoyant view of life. God is there - He will be your help!

Which led to Indras death and others was ANGER, while a sikhs main and first job is to defeat these five thieves: Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment, and Pride.

In gurbani its also states that attack (i'm talking about sri guru granth sahib ji here, not dasam granth) your enemy, not with kirpans, not with armies etc but with:- Contentment, Charity, Kindness, Positive Energy (Chardik Kala), Humility...

At the end:- "Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran. Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3|| Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu. Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4|| Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's will, knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||"