The Mother Goddess (Jugg Mata)

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

I would like to start a topic on the broad subject of the Devi or Goddess in world spiritual and religious traditions. This discussion is intended to expand to cover the role of the Divine Mother, historically in all traditions, an examination of the inter-relationship with femininity, art, culture, politics and such like and finally the impact of this today.

Some my ask the relevance of such a discussion on a Sikh Forum, however, if we consider that in the Sri Guru, frequent references are made to Vaheguru as both female and male [Har Ji Pita, Har Ji Mata –Anand Sahib M3] and other times purely as female, and even more so in the Sri Dasam Granth [Kirpa kari hum par Jugg Mata –Kabio Bach Benti Chaupai, Charitropakyan]. The latter works as well as the Sri Sarabloh Prakash also include a series of compositions dealing exclusively with the Devi Chandi in her various forms.

These are largely symbolical references, however I feel a thread such as this is imperative today, when increasing talk of these passages are coming in vogue and with them much confusion within the panth as marked by recent turmoil with regard to one notorious author and even in the cyber-forum world with many a witch hunt for supposed RSS sympathisers has been seen to occur. It is best for us as Sikhs to study and share this heritage in order to better understand the backdrop to our own, that way WE take charge of OUR own heritage and don’t leave space for the likes of the RSS to manipulate it otherwise. So with out further ado here we go...please ALL contribute, questions, thoughts, information, analysis....bring it all on!!!

GUR BAR AKAAAAL

Niranjan

a.

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Introductory thoughts...

We can find reference to The goddess, or Great Mother, in all traditions across the world, not just in India where they have survived. Europe in fact was home to the veneration of The goddess prior to the impact of Christianity. Similar traditions can be found in South America, the Far East and in Africa.

“it is out of the primordial depths of her womb that the Universe and all life is bornâ€

From the European angle, the common belief of those worshipping The goddess is that Old Europe was once ruled by a matriarchal egalitarian religion which worshiped a matrifocal (mother-focused), sedentary, peaceful, art-loving, goddess between 5,000 and 25,000 years before the rise of the first male-oriented religion.

This egalitarian culture was then overrun and destroyed by a semi-nomadic, horse-riding, Indo-European group of invaders who were patrifocal (father-focused), mobile, warlike, and indifferent to art following which the culture eventually assimilated into the more dominant patriarchal religion of the invaders.

Interestingly one also finds alongside the raping and pillaging, the dominant male invaders killing serpents, which are thought to be a symbol of the goddess worshipers (obvious cross reference: Kundalini and Tantra?). It is thought that as the assimilation of cultures continued, the Great Mother Goddess became fragmented into many lesser goddesses, these were then later reduced to mere icons (as is the case with Britannia) or given more acceptable forms (as some argue with the <admin-profanity filter activated> Mary).

Merlin Stone, [When God Was a Woman] exrpesses the view that disenthronement of the Great Goddess, begun by the Indo- European invaders, was finally accomplished by the Hebrew, Christian, and Moslem religions that arose later.(5) The male deity took the

prominent place. The female goddesses faded into the background, and women in society followed suit.

This is an interesting point to note, certainly if one looks outside of The goddess for moment and at the campaigns during the late 19th and early 20th centuries by Sikh reformists to have Gurbani translated into English through the likes of the disgraceful Ernst Trumpp and later through Macaufille, the emphasis made on the use of words such as Lord, He, the Master became all so common and certainly today, whether katha or discussion is held even in Punjabi, reference to Akal is almost always in masculine terms.

No doubt, lip service is paid to the notions of Akal being without gender, however with concepts such as Pati-Parmeasur (Husband-Lord) being manifested within the Panth, so far as being incorporated into the Rehit Maryadas of the Damdami Taksal and that issued by the Nishkam Sevak Jatha, are indicative of male dominance that has occurred with the impact of the Semitic traditions and also through reformist Vaishnavs and such like in the Indian subcontinent.

Jean Shinoda Bolen refers to The goddess as follows:-

“The Great Goddess was worshiped as the feminine life force deeply connected to nature and fertility, responsible both for creating life and for destroying lifeâ€

Which is probably a notion closer to the sentiments of those belonging to Indian Subcontinent vis-a-vis Kundalini and Adi Shakti.

She goes on to say, "The Great Goddess was regarded as immortal, changeless, and omnipotent" prior to the coming of Christianity. The Semitic traditions and Christianity in particular saw God as transcendent, apart from nature, and largely as a masculine deity.

The goddess worshippers held a pantheistic view of God equating God with nature, hence being is in all things and all things being part of God, albeit they viewed God in actuality as a goddess, the giver of all life and found in all of creation.

More to follow....

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Niranjana

This subject is too extensive to allow for a cogent debate. Perhaps it's better to debate the 'Devi' in the context of Sikhism, expecially in the writings of Guru Gobind Singh. I read in one post, perhaps not here but on another forum that you believe that the Singh Sabha disowned some of the writings of Guru Gobind Singh on the devi because they believed that such works were perhaps reinforcing a view that Guru Gobind was a worshipper of the Devi. Perhaps that would be a good subject to debate.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

Bikramjit Singh Sahib, thanks for your comments. I note what you state and agree on the closing comments vis-a-vis Devi in the writings of Guru Gobind Singh would be a good topic for debate -let's start a separate thread for this?

This post, I aknowledge is very broad in nature, but to be honest, its for for debate, but rather information gathering and sharing...I'm certain it will inspire many other debates from it though, which I would urge to be kept on separate threads (and reference any material from here as needs be).

Kind regards,

Niranjana

[Akaali]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fatehh!!

hmm....

Althought many references to the almighty have been as the 'husband-lord' or master, father, etc.

Waheguru has been given the characteristics of both mother, father, friend, brother as follows:

eiko bhaaee mith eik eiko maath pithaa ||

The One is my Brother, the One is my Friend. The One is my Mother and Father.

Guru Granth Sahib ji is not as complex or sophisticated as we make it, by bringing out new theories, or historical occurences.

Gurbani was written for the common man, to understand his/her purpose on earth, and the goal of life.

Sure there's a significance behind the feminity or the divine mother, but Guru ji hasn't given it much importance, since its not something for Sikhs to ponder over or even debate, we are in constant battle with our minds, 24/7 we have to think about our actions.

The importance of debating over this topic I find useless, unless one can show me its importance in SGGS.

Bhul chuk maaf!

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fatehh!!

[Gill]

doesn't it say in sikhi "without the woman there is none; Without the woman is the One True Lord alone"

[Niranjana]

Guru Granth Sahib ji is not as complex or sophisticated as we make it, by bringing out new theories, or historical occurences.

Gurbani was written for the common man, to understand his/her purpose on earth, and the goal of life.

Sure there's a significance behind the feminity or the divine mother, but Guru ji hasn't given it much importance, since its not something for Sikhs to ponder over or even debate, we are in constant battle with our minds, 24/7 we have to think about our actions.

The importance of debating over this topic I find useless, unless one can show me its importance in SGGS.

Gur Fateh!

Bhai Sahib, thanks for your comments, just a few comments on some of your closing statements:

Sardar Ji, no one is trying to make Guru Granth Sahib complex, but I disagree with your notions on it not being sophisticated -I personally feel Sikhi is sophisticated, although over the past 100 years for various reasons we have deluded ourselves into becoming "simple" such that we are frankly simpletons, which I feel to run contrary to the eliteness established by Guru Sahib:-

"Eh teesra mazrab Khalsa, Upjio Pradhana"

Sikhi is aimed at everyone, not just the common man, but yes, it crossed traditional social status by allowing all to have access to divine revelations, however through that process makes ev

en the simpleton into a scholar:-

Arril.

"sunai gung joyahi su rasana pavai. sunai murh chitti lai chaturata avai.

dukkh darad bhau nikat na tin nar ke rahai. ho jo yakhi ek bar chaupai ko

kahai"

...and a pauper into a prince:-

"in gareeb sikhan ko, deo patshahia"

These are just my thoughts, and I appreciate not everyone will see eye to eye with me, however I do believe Sikhi is a sophisticated culture, way of life and an elite, not in ego-inflating sense or power-hungry sense, but in that Sikhi promotes evolution of an individual to higher levels and understanding, which is true sophistication (i.e. not social status as is commonly thought), this may indeed express itself in an outwardly manner through art, poetry, music and so on and indeed when one looks at the lives of the Gurus we see these characteristic manifest in the Royal Darbar.

As per the feminine aspect, I personally feel that this aspect is stressed time and again in both the Sri Guru and the Dasam Granth, however given the translations and vichaar we have become acustomed to (given the influence of the likes of Ernst Trumpp, McLeod and Macaufille) which are responsible for the continous male dominant translations and use of terms such as "Lord".

The feminine aspect is totally relevant for what you term "constant battle with our minds, 24/7 we have to think about our actions" please see Dalip Singh's analysis on Chandi Di // for further thought on this matter.

You are called the Primal Goddess.

too kahee-at hee aad bhavaanee.

Again, I wasn't intending this thread to be for debating, it is for gathering and sharing information for those who which to explore this further and debates will naturally spring forth as the theme expands (which I feel should be opened up as separate threads)

Bhai Sahib, if you find this topic useless, you are entitled to your opinion and I thank you for your interaction thus far and shall perhaps discuss more relevant matte

rs with you on another thread that is more meaningful from your perspective.

Have a good weekend,

Niranjana.

The One Divine Mother conceived and gave birth to the three deities.

aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee tin chaylay parvaan.

Air is the Guru, Water is the Father, and Earth is the Great Mother of all.

pavan guroo paanee pitaa maataa Dharat mahat.

The bird of desire is caught, and cannot find any escape, O my mother.

tarisnaa pankhee faasi-aa nikas na paa-ay maa-ay.

The Guru, the Perfect True Guru, is my Mother and Father. Obtaining the Water of the Guru, the lotus of my heart blossoms forth. ||3||

mayraa maat pitaa gur satgur pooraa gur jal mil kamal vigsai jee-o.

Let wisdom be your mother, and contentment your father.

maataa mat pitaa santokh.

The Divine Guru is my mother, the Divine Guru is my father; the Divine Guru is my Transcendent Lord and Master.

gurdayv maataa gurdayv pitaa gurdayv su-aamee parmaysuraa.

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