Fundamental Differences Between 'brahmgianis'

[Charandhoor Singh]

Gurfateh.

Having watched the video on 'brahmgiani darshan', i have an honest question. The first few minutes of the video appear to be dedicated to gurmukh bhai sahib randhir singh ji, others include the likes of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji and Baba Nand Singh Ji. I cant say i know too much about the bhaisahib randhir singh, however, as far as I am aware (apologies if i am incorrect), bhai randhir singh didnt believe in raagmala as bani.

If this is the case, then can those who believe in raagmala and those who dont both be brahmgianis. Whilst i ackowledge that brahmgianis have different views regarding methods, simran correct path etc. I also ackowledge that mere humans cannot try and determine the all realise the power or avasta od 'brahmgiani'. However, gurbani is divine and from nirankar, it is therefore not adaptable or flexible as other issues are. Therefore I feel that if one person believes in a section of gurbani, and another believes it is not gurbani - they cant both be brahmgianis. I have no intention of this turning into a debate regarding the authentication of the raagmala as im sure its already been discussed.

I believe that the such a fundamental difference means that either bhai randhir singh was a brahmgiani and that all other mahapursh have not reached brahmgian. Or that the likes of others such as Sant Isher Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Atter Singh Ji etc, were Brahmgianis and that Bhai Randhir Singh wasnt. I feel that one of these scenerios has to be correct, such opposite and incompatible believes cannot both constitute brahmgian. Unless the view of Damdami Taksal is to be accepted that Bhai Randhir sought forgiveness from their jathedar (as he was the head of guru gobind singh jis taksal) towards the very end of his life for the role he played in the anti-raagmala issue. Very debatable.

Above all I recognise that people should focus on their own bani, simran, seva. However as the connotations of the term 'brahmgiani' are not minimal, I feel this should be discussed. After all if the word 'brahmgiani' was being used to loosely and incorrectly would it not constitite beadbi? - probably depending on your definition of beadbi.

Anyway to reitterate, due to the fundamental differences over the belief of raagmala (in particular over any other issue), I believe that either bhai randhir singh can be considered a brahmgiani and others not, or the likes of sant isher singh, sant gurbachan singh bhinderwanwle, baba nand singh etc were brahmgianis and bhai randhir singh not. Unless the view of some members of damdami taksal are to be accepted that bhai randhri singh ji sough forgivness from their jathedar (Who at the time i believe was sant kartar singh bhinderanwale).

I know where I stand on the issue. Look forward to some discussion and reading peoples justification for their opinions. Again to reiterate im no looking for a raagmala debate. thanks

Rub Rakha.

[kurtas]

These sadhs have destroyed the sanctity of Sant / Brahmgiani.

If they are real Sant then they are naturally Brahmgiani. But see for yourselves they cant even agree on a common Rehat Maryda. Why dont they all get together and a few members of the Sant Samaj could ask Waheguru directly to clarify what exactly the Rehat Maryada should be.

The lack of concensus on the Rehat Maryada shows them up for what they really are.

[Thug Life]

firstly i don't think we are able to decide who is and who is not a brahmgyani.

but saying that people do put too much emphasis on sant/ brahmgyanis from their "jatha's"

[kurtas]

firstly i don't think we are able to decide who is and who is not a brahmgyani.

but saying that people do put too much emphasis on sant/ brahmgyanis from their "jatha's"

We should not be referring to anyone as a Sant or Brahmgiani. Our Guru Ji used the title for their predecessor Guru Ji and baghats like Bhagat Kabeer Ji.

The fact that these modern day t-series "Sant" cannot even agree on a common Rehat Maryada says it all about their claims of being one with Waheguru.

[Charandhoor Singh]

i agree we cant decide who is and who isnt brahmgiani.

however, the question remains:

IF one individual believes in raagmala as bani, and the other believes raagmala is not bani, can they both be brahmgianis?

as highlighted the lack on consunsus amongst the rehat maryada shows the differencs and inconsistencies, however these are not as fundamental or as major as aredifferences in beliefs in the authenticity of gurbani.

"Bani Guru, Guru Hai Bani" - this is not flexible, there can be no differing over views/opinions etc if someone is a brahmgiani. therefore to reitterate the question again:

IF one individual believes in raagmala as bani, and the other believes raagmala is not bani, can they both be brahmgianis?

[Charandhoor Singh]

lets ignore these modern day commercial sants. and look at older none commercial ones such as baba ishar singh or baba nand singh. Or going back even further - Baba Maharaja Singh who is from the lineage of baba sishar singh. Or if you have a problem with them - Maha Bidhwan Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhinderanwale, etc

[Charandhoor Singh]

"If they are real Sant then they are naturally Brahmgiani"

Im afriad most Sikh scholars (puratan and contemporary), theologians and anyone else trained in Sikh spirtual traditions would disagree, there are differences between Sadhu, Sant, and Brahmgiani - with the state of brahmgiani being the pinnacle of spirtual achievement. Sant Singh Maskin and various other have done kaha on it. However thats not the focus of discussion.

[Jathedar]

it is an intresting question that you have come up with though... i think it all boils down to what your view on raagmala is i guess

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

yeah, cud people stop going off post and answer the question

my opinion is that a brahmgyani has acheived merger with vahiguru

brahmgyani aap nirnankaar

therefore a brahmgyani cannot have a differnce in opinion on something as vital as gurbani.

so they cant all be bramhmgyanis

[raj_karega_khalsa]

The fact that these modern day t-series "Sant" cannot even agree on a common Rehat Maryada says it all about their claims of being one with Waheguru.

i like taht, 't-series "Sant" lol