Kaurs In Punj Piarey

[Guest Narinder Singh]

I know there are differences in opinions of whether women should be in the panj pyare or not, but there is no restrictions on women as per the Sikh Rehat Maryada, i just wanted to make that very clear.

Fateh.

[PSD]

the conclusion is right here

Please answer the point on what you define as equality? Is it physical or spiritual, a mixture of both?

................................

definetly wait for the day wen amrit is given by a mixture of genders, male, female (cross genders - cus they are equal too aint they?), someone sitting in a wheelchair mixing th amrit, someone with only one hand, the bania read in english translations, women told to remove their salwars (just like men have to remove their trousres) etc etc alllll in the name of equality. ....

u hit the nail on the head ak-47 & tarrandeep kaur , also for once i also agree with baba amarjeet singh.

[Only five]

Please answer the point on what you define as equality? Is it physical or spiritual, a mixture of both?

If guru ji has blessed both genders with absolute equality, then why are men still discriminated against in that they cant give birth to .............................someone sitting in a wheelchair mixing th amrit, someone with only one hand, the bania read in english translations, women told to remove their salwars (just like men have to remove their trousres) etc etc alllll in the name of equality. ....

Well said, I know it's old, but it's one post that you can't ignore.

Here is something that came to mind while reading about this topic. If gender doesn't matter when selecting Punj Pyare then why is Singh given to the man and Kaur given to women. If gender doesn't matter once your Amritdhari then Singh and kaur becomes irrevelant and Guru Sahib should have given only one name two both genders. Why did Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji distinguish between man and women when giving last names. Singh meaning loin and Kaur meaning princess. The soul has no gender and yet Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, still distinguished between man and women!!!

[guptveer1469]

Amazing posts AK-47, Tarrandeep Kaur and only five.

I am shocked to see that some people even doubted the amrit sanchaar ceremony :s

Conclusion:

- Bibia can take amrit

- Bibia can't be part of Panj Pyare.

WJKK WJKF Ji

[EKONAM]

you are RIGHT women SHOULD be allowed in the ceremony to be one of the five , in the gurbani male and female are equal, the sikh that are katar "strict" or as i call them "Taliban" will not understand this and give you reasons that "when guru gobind asked for five heads (which he never did) why did'nt women get up" the guru Never did any thing to show mircles or any of the bhagts in the bani, they all say that god did it,

[EKONAM]

First off:

b. At the place where ambrosial baptism is to be administered, the holy Guru Granth Sahib should be installed and ceremonially opened. Also present should be six committed baptised Sikhs, one of whom should sit in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib and the other five should be there to administer the ambrosial baptism. These six may even include Sikh women. All of them must have taken bath and washed their hair

- Rehit Maryada

And secondly, although i respect baba jarnail singh ji for the amount of seva he did for the panth, he is not the guru, the guru is the guru-panth and guru-granth, and above is what the guru-panth says regarding bibiyan as panj pyare.

Fateh.

Great! so which rehat maryada is this? Please let me know.

What I want to know, for all those out there who think that only men should be Punj Pyarey, if it really is a male/female thing.. Mata Sahib Kaur put the patasey into the Amrit, so how come in every Amrit Sanchar you don't have a woman putting the patasey into the Amrit???

I think the most beautiful thing to see is a graceful powerful Sikh woman being one of the Punj Pyarey. If you say that it should be only men because you have to 'replicate' what happened in 1699, then why not get guys of the same caste as those of the original Punj Pyarey?

Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not say I want the heads of 5 Sikh men.. he said he wanted the heads of 5 Sikhs.

In Sri Guru Granth Shib Ji, we are portrayed as 'brides'. So who is male or female? In our past reincarnations, God knows what we have been... both male and female. So who is to say who is compatible or not. I don't think you are/not elgible to be in the Punj Pyarey just because you have half a chromosome more or less than the opposite sex. Please, my Guru is more open minded than this... Don't insult them.

Satnam

Harsimrren Kaur

There's only one Rehit Maryada, and thats the Panthic Rehit Maryada from Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

Fateh.

[EKONAM]

i am sorry to say that the ONLY rehit maryada is the gurbani, why? which one do we follow , every person or "jatha" has CREATED there own , some say kaaski is one of the five sybols , but the gurbani does not mentions these,man made five k's. the fact is in those days to protect from the enemy was a sword or small more conveintant a knife, these days they are a joke, wear a riffle or aup to dat e stane gun not some knif that will not evem come out during a fight.

last of all the guru did not ask for five heads, guru gobinds singh ji planed this very carefully the very men that WHERE baptisted by HIS father GURU tegbahader ji where the same men that came up .

after that thosands and thousands of people too the amrit "phol"

NOBODY knew that this was going to happen, i ask you DID they all bring with them the so called five k's ......come on when you go to a maala do we ever even thing to bring an umbrella,

after guru gobind singh ji Navab kapoor singh ji had kand bata over his horse neck which he carried all the time , he knew the value of phol , when ever there was anew born he got five others men or women and started the russum and gave the new born phol.

we say amrit tari , the word is used for every person who is baptized , in fact we are wrong, amrit tari applies to a very few , who have reached the spritial level and amrit varun in there body's.

[Only five]

you are RIGHT women SHOULD be allowed in the ceremony to be one of the five , in the gurbani male and female are equal,

What does that have to do with anything. Your confusing fairness with sameness.

the sikh that are katar "strict" or as i call them "Taliban" will not understand this and give you reasons that "when guru gobind asked for five heads (which he never did) why did'nt women get up" the guru Never did any thing to show mircles or any of the bhagts in the bani, they all say that god did it,

Who said it was a miracle. When Guru Sahib asked for five heads, he didn't ask for 2.5 men and 2.5 women. IT was open to the sangat to give their head and only men stood up and gave their head for the Punj Pyare. If a women had stood up then yes one women would be apart of the Punj Pyare. Does anyone really know what took place behind the tent. No the Punj Pyare knew and Guru Sahib himself. All the sangat knew was something was cut and blood came out and hit the tent and then you had Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji come out with blood on his sword. And ask for another head and it was repeated three more times and no women stood up.

The ones that claim he cut another animal back their to make a show out of the Punj Pyare have not read Gurbani at all. A person that has read Gurbani would never say such foolish thing about his Guru. Guru Sahib is not a deciever and would not go against his own Bani by saying one thing and doing another. When he said I need five heads he got five heads and that blood was very much from those five heads. Again if people just take the time to read Gurbani they wouldn't be making stupid remarks.

[Only five]

Narinder Singh, on Aug 6 2007, 10:35 PM, said:First off:

b. At the place where ambrosial baptism is to be administered, the holy Guru Granth Sahib should be installed and ceremonially opened. Also present should be six committed baptised Sikhs, one of whom should sit in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib and the other five should be there to administer the ambrosial baptism. These six may even include Sikh women. All of them must have taken bath and washed their hair

- Rehit Maryada

And secondly, although i respect baba jarnail singh ji for the amount of seva he did for the panth, he is not the guru, the guru is the guru-panth and guru-granth, and above is what the guru-panth says regarding bibiyan as panj pyare.

Fateh.

Who in this forum or in the next forum can stand for Guru-Panth. Such a high name is only for Gursikhs. Not your average alcoholic or average person who wakes up twice a week in Amrit Vela or every day in Amrit Vela, but ripps through the Punj Bani and then hits the sack again. Why demean the status of Guru-Panth to get your way.

The same rehit tells a person to read Anand Sahib with first five stanza and last 5 stanza. Who is to say that is enough when Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji told his Sikhs to read Anand Sahib completely. Is the rest of the stanza in Anand Sahib not important. Should we just not even look at them.

[Only five]

Great! so which rehat maryada is this? Please let me know.

What I want to know, for all those out there who think that only men should be Punj Pyarey, if it really is a male/female thing.. Mata Sahib Kaur put the patasey into the Amrit, so how come in every Amrit Sanchar you don't have a woman putting the patasey into the Amrit???

Then this should be addressed by the Panth, but not used against the Khalsa to get your thinking approved.

I think the most beautiful thing to see is a graceful powerful Sikh woman being one of the Punj Pyarey. If you say that it should be only men because you have to 'replicate' what happened in 1699, then why not get guys of the same caste as those of the original Punj Pyarey?

Guru Nanak Dev ji came and said the caste system is no longer. Sikh were well aware of this already. Hence Langar was started where every man and women sat at an equal level regardless of caste. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji completed the message. So when the Punj Pyare stood up they didn't have a caste. They surely had a gender and even Guru Sahib distingished between gender because he gave Singh to the man and Kaur to the woman.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not say I want the heads of 5 Sikh men.. he said he wanted the heads of 5 Sikhs.

Yes it was open to all and only men stood up.

In Sri Guru Granth Shib Ji, we are portrayed as 'brides'. So who is male or female?

Your forgetting Singh and Kaur.

In our past reincarnations, God knows what we have been... both male and female. So who is to say who is compatible or not. I don't think you are/not elgible to be in the Punj Pyarey just because you have half a chromosome more or less than the opposite sex. Please, my Guru is more open minded than this... Don't insult them.

Satnam

Harsimrren Kaur

Now our past lives don't matter. Gursikh stays in the present and doesn't worry about his future or past. He doesn't have to care for it because Guru Sahib is taking care of him/her.

There is no discrimination against women in this aspect. Gursikhs see what took place and recongize the tradition and uphold the tradition.