Kaurs In Punj Piarey

[Guest shastr]

to "ekonam", you really need a reality check buddy. calling bhai gurdaas ji's vaaran fake? um, bhai gurdaas ji is a pooran bhramgiani. they are guru arjun dev ji's mama ji for god sake. have some respect man. maharaj said that if somebody wants to fully understand guru granth sahib ji, they will first need to understand bhai gurdaas ji's vaaran. as bhai gurdaas jis vaaran have been given "key" status. the key that unlocks the message of guru granth sahib ji maharaj. so before u go and say things like that about pooran bhramgianis, i suggest u give a lil thought. but its ok, guru arjun dev ji has wirtten 13th ashtpadi of sukhmani sahib for people like u. maybe u should try reading it sometime.

to "sherlsurj", that pankti ur asking about is on ang 963, guru arjun dev ji's salok, "habe saak kooddave ditte, tao palai taiddai laagi" this is a benti from a bibi, made to her husband, as you can see it says "laagi" which is estari ling, female word. if the guy was supposed to be in back, then it woudl have said "laaga". but there is no such pankti at all. so that is y the singh is in the front, and bibi is in the back when it comes to laavan. and dont go and try to find this shabad on sikhitothemax or something and then come back and post the meaning u find on there, as gurbani is agaad bodh, more then 1 meaning to a pankti. listening to katha might give u a better understand of this salok.

and to the rest of the people who keep crying about equality equality. there is no doubt that sikhism is about equality. that obvoiusly. theres tons of gurbani pankti that emphisize this thought. but can anybody tell me why all 10 guru sahibs are male and not female? can anybody tell me why all 15 bhagats in guru granth sahib ji are male and not female? can anybody tell me why all bhatts whos bani has been added in guru granth sahib ji are all male and not female? wat happened to all the equaliy of men and women during guru ji's time huh? oh i guess non of them were as smart as some of us on this forum huh. maybe maharaj didnt know about equality right?

if somebody was to draw a picture of guru gobind singh ji maharaj, to all those people who say women should be included in panj piayare, would u accept a picture of maharaj guru gobind singh ji drawn as a female? i think not. and wat did guru gobind singh ji say? that panj pyare are my saroop. if in 1699 there were only 5 men that offered their heads to maharaj, how can a women be an repeat the image of man??

to all those singhni's that cry about this, well dont u think there were women sitting there that day maharaj aksed for 5 heads? if bibi's wanted to be in panj pyare all they had to do was get up and get their head cut off. BUT SINCE NO BIBI STOOD UP, NO BIBI HAS RIGHT TO BE INCLUDED IN PANJ SINGHS. how can somebody who didnt even give thier head be an image of panj pyare. that doesnt even make sence. its like going aginst the laws of nature.

oh since men and women are equal, im going to start a new thread arguing why men can not give birth, since we are both equal and everything. i think men should be able to give birth since we are trying to equalize everything. oh and i want to see singhni's with full grown beards now too, u know, if we are going to get all down with the equality here, i wanna see a singhni with nice chardikala parkaash darra.

and to all the people who said that sant ji is not "our guru" or that we shouldnt listen to them, well jee, thanks for stating the obvious. everybody knows who our guru is. sant ji never said he was the guru. so saying things like that is very silly. in guru granth sahib ji how many times does it say we should respect saints? how many pankti's are there that say we should live life by the message of the saints? how many times does maharaj say to "give me the dust of the saints" ??

in sukhmani sahib, guru arjun dev maharaj says "jis kai antar basai narakar, tis ki seekh tarai sansaar" meaning those who have waheguru installed in their hearts, by their teachings the world is liberated. and here we have sant ji giving us a teaching and yet how many of us have followed that teaching? calling somebody a sant, then after listening to wat they preach, say that oh since they are not our guru so we dont have to belive them? does that make sence? maharaj says the world is saved by the teachings of sants, and yet here we have people obviously smarter then maharaj saying that just because the sant said something, that doest mean its true. wow. thats sad.

why do we have to have everything set in stone for us? why do we cry about finding the smallest things and arguing weather they are included in guru granth sahib ji? why do we always want everything to be written in our favor? i guess since maharaj guru granth sahib ji does not say that im not allowed to jump off a bridge next week, i guess im going to go do that huh?

we try to find things that are not in guru granth sahib ji, yet we dont even follow wats written. maharaj says "din raati araadho piyaro, nimakh na keejai teela" are we all following this? maharaj says do simran 24 hours a day, are we all following this? maharaj says dont get angry with anybody, dont use foul language, dont make fun of people, dont disrespect anybody, do we follow these things? we come here and ask for proof from guru granth sahib ji as if we follow ever single hukam maharaj has given to us. are we really those sikhs who maharaj gave up his family for?

we need to wake up here people.

[Bundha]

Well said Shastr Ji, it really is an open and shut case.

[BhForce]

1. The basic question is, are we going to follow the Guru, or are we just going to what we want? In the Peer/Mureed or Guru/Sikh tradition, the peer tells the mureed what to do, and the mureed just does it, without questioning, like Bhai Lehana (Guru Angad Dev Ji).

2. The shocking comments by ekonam promoting the SDO cult who like to do nindia of one of the greatest Sikhs of all time, Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas Ji, show the true mentality from which those going against established maryada are coming from. It's a mentality of haumai (ego) thinking that a modern day college graduate who took an anthropology course or some such knows better than our Gurus, great Gursikhs, and 500 years of Sikh community.

News flash for those who are flirting with changing the GurMaryada of the Amrit Ceremony: The SDO's and others who are in favour of this have a whole list of other stuff they want to change in Sikhi.

2. To think that the female Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev ji to Dasmesh Ji were weak is to think of yourself as being better than all of them, including Mai Bhago. Mata Bhag Kaur didn't participate in a single Amrit Smagam, but there are loads of Singhs who did.

3. As for the SGPC maryada, that's OK to quote if you're of the missionary persuasion, but please don't hide behind that if you're of the "blue chola" persuasion that normally talks of following the "true rehit" above and beyond SGPC maryada.

4. Everyone realises Gurbani talks of soul-brides. Funny thing is, the authors of these shabads (9 Gurus), always chose a male to represent the Guruship. So did the 10th Guru. Or God: Khalsa Pargatio Parmatam Ki Mauj.

5. It's quite funny how some of our brothers and sisters think that talking about the soul being a female and God being a purukh (male) means the Panj should be any gender. If anything, it means the Panj should be male! Of course, this doesn't mean men are more spiritually advanced than women, but it does have symbolic meaning, which was chosen by (take your pick) Guru and God. So how about we just let Guru be Guru, and we can all be followers?

6. Props to those who have pointed out that the Gurus addressed every other social malady, but didn't promote radical gender equality. I think it's fair to say that our Gurus believe in reasonable and fair social setup, not in radical sex equality. Lahanat to anyone who says Gurus didn't have the nerve to promote this because they were followers and not leaders of society.

7. Only five has brilliantly pointed out that Guru Gobind Singh ji believed in castelessness, but *not* sexlessness. Caste (hereditary occupation) is associated with what one does (or used to do); it can be changed or ignored, as gurmat advises. Sex can't be changed. In fact, Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually strengthened sex boundaries. Before, people just had one-word names. Afterwards, they were divided into two categories: Singh and Kaur.

The whole idea of radical sex equality is a product of a degraded Western culture that likes to "let it all hang out". Open sexual acts (such as kissing by couples), physical closeness of people not married to one another, etc. are not a part of the Gursikh culture. Pity our poor, un-degreed Guru Sahiban were unable to grasp the finer points of "Gurmat" until 21st century Sikhs came around.

8. Brown people, stop thinking you are inferior and that you need to ape the West in order to please it. The Gursikh culture is superior to modern Western culture. 30 percent of westerners are, apparently, [url http://relationships.blog-city.com/how_common_is_female_infidelity.htm]bastards[/url].

9. Please stop twisting Gurmat just because you are afraid of your friends of a European background. You can give them the perfectly reasonable answer that, because souls are symbolically viewed as female, the symbolic representation of God is male.

[sherlsurj]

just shows me how sexist so many guys are on here! kaur power !

[Papi]

Ah this thread proves that there is an extremely fine line between equality and being labelled as sexist :rolleyes:

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal"

- Aristotle

[Starscream]

Yes, females have my full support in anything!

Yes, females have my full support in anything!

[Guest shastr]

starscream ji............i mean manjot singh ji new york wale, tuwadi kisi ne support nahi mangi ji

[Only five]

just shows me how sexist so many guys are on here! kaur power !

Try to stay on topic and not get personal. The very Sant you disagree with treated woman with equality. Defended womens honor.

And it's not Kaur Power or Singh power, because that would be sexist, showing favoritism to one side.

It's Khalsa Power!!!!!!

Chardikala

[Guest shastr]

Mod Note: Please do not impersonate mods or admins by using red font and giving a warning.

[EKONAM]

1. The basic question is, are we going to follow the Guru, or are we just going to what we want? In the Peer/Mureed or Guru/Sikh tradition, the peer tells the mureed what to do, and the mureed just does it, without questioning, like Bhai Lehana (Guru Angad Dev Ji).

2. The shocking comments by ekonam promoting the SDO cult who like to do nindia of one of the greatest Sikhs of all time, Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas Ji, show the true mentality from which those going against established maryada are coming from. It's a mentality of haumai (ego) thinking that a modern day college graduate who took an anthropology course or some such knows better than our Gurus, great Gursikhs, and 500 years of Sikh community.

News flash for those who are flirting with changing the GurMaryada of the Amrit Ceremony: The SDO's and others who are in favour of this have a whole list of other stuff they want to change in Sikhi.

2. To think that the female Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev ji to Dasmesh Ji were weak is to think of yourself as being better than all of them, including Mai Bhago. Mata Bhag Kaur didn't participate in a single Amrit Smagam, but there are loads of Singhs who did.

3. As for the SGPC maryada, that's OK to quote if you're of the missionary persuasion, but please don't hide behind that if you're of the "blue chola" persuasion that normally talks of following the "true rehit" above and beyond SGPC maryada.

4. Everyone realises Gurbani talks of soul-brides. Funny thing is, the authors of these shabads (9 Gurus), always chose a male to represent the Guruship. So did the 10th Guru. Or God: Khalsa Pargatio Parmatam Ki Mauj.

5. It's quite funny how some of our brothers and sisters think that talking about the soul being a female and God being a purukh (male) means the Panj should be any gender. If anything, it means the Panj should be male! Of course, this doesn't mean men are more spiritually advanced than women, but it does have symbolic meaning, which was chosen by (take your pick) Guru and God. So how about we just let Guru be Guru, and we can all be followers?

6. Props to those who have pointed out that the Gurus addressed every other social malady, but didn't promote radical gender equality. I think it's fair to say that our Gurus believe in reasonable and fair social setup, not in radical sex equality. Lahanat to anyone who says Gurus didn't have the nerve to promote this because they were followers and not leaders of society.

7. Only five has brilliantly pointed out that Guru Gobind Singh ji believed in castelessness, but *not* sexlessness. Caste (hereditary occupation) is associated with what one does (or used to do); it can be changed or ignored, as gurmat advises. Sex can't be changed. In fact, Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually strengthened sex boundaries. Before, people just had one-word names. Afterwards, they were divided into two categories: Singh and Kaur.

The whole idea of radical sex equality is a product of a degraded Western culture that likes to "let it all hang out". Open sexual acts (such as kissing by couples), physical closeness of people not married to one another, etc. are not a part of the Gursikh culture. Pity our poor, un-degreed Guru Sahiban were unable to grasp the finer points of "Gurmat" until 21st century Sikhs came around.

8. Brown people, stop thinking you are inferior and that you need to ape the West in order to please it. The Gursikh culture is superior to modern Western culture. 30 percent of westerners are, apparently, [url http://relationships...ty.htm]bastards[/url].

9. Please stop twisting Gurmat just because you are afraid of your friends of a European background. You can give them the perfectly reasonable answer that, because souls are symbolically viewed as female, the symbolic representation of God is male.