Bhai Mani Singh

[Akaali]

Yea, I'm pondering over the same question!!!!!!

[V]

@ Bhai Kulpreet Singh ji's post

[Niranjana]

Sardar Sahibs Bikramjit Singh and Mr Singh,

VahegurooJeeKaaKhalsa!

VahegurooJeeKeeFateh!

Thank you both for remembering me and my other posts. As per the choice of greetings, from what I have seen this forum is not necessarily viewed only by my fellow Sikhs but many non-Sikhs too, moreover I wasn't under the impression that the forum rules explicitly dictated that all posts should invoke the Fateh either, given that many others have chosen to use Sat Sri Akal, Gur Fateh, Guroo Rakhaa, Gur Bar Akaal, etc etc...

...the use of SriMahaLaskhmiJiSahai or indeed SriBhagauteeJiSahai are simply invocations taken from the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh (from the Sarabloh Parkash and the Dasam Granth, respectively), if you wanted to have references for them...it is interesting however, that none of my comments from the post were addressed, or indeed that I myself have previously used greetings other than the Fateh to which I had no such questioning (and much less accusations such as those aired by SaadhRyan Kaur)...if you wish to take up a discussion on using such salutations when writing posts, then I’ll be happy to discuss this on another post (caveat to my comments and request to the moderators below).

As for Sardarni Sahiba SaadhRyan Kaur, thank you for the alerting the forum to prospective Nangs.

Dear Moderators, should I consider this to indicate acceptable behaviour for the forum to jump to conclusions and shout (given the use of large red font) obscenities to other members? Particularly as I have never before had any engage with the Sardarni Sahiba nor does she know who I am, nonetheless she considers it acceptable to resor

t to such allegations...

...Sardar Bikramjit Singh, with whom I have had previous correspondence, can verify that our personal views don’t necessarily see eye-to-eye on all topics, however, at least he has in this instance, endeavoured to show some level of courtesy in asking for clarification rather than jumping to conclusions and moreover yelling insults...

...of course if this is the norm for this forum and considered acceptable, then certainly do let me know, for as Sardar Bikramjit Singh correctly indicated I am indeed an Amritdhari Singh and as such, do not knowingly wish to engage in useless slander and backbiting or the company of those who relish such activities...

Gur Fateh.

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Niranjana

Thanks for the clarification.

1. You are correct to assume that there are no forum rules that state that we should only use the Khalsa salutation. There is no doubt that non-Sikhs visit this forum but does this really mean that we should not use the Khalsa Fateh ?.

2. You have stated that you are simply using the invocation that is used in Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth. These forms of invocation can be used when reading these texts but the Rehatnamas as well as the Sri Gur Sobha clearly state that the way for a Khalsa to greet fellow Sikhs is with Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Just because these invocations are used in Dasam Granth does not mean that Sikhs should use these to greet each other.

3. As you may be aware the Sikh greeting has gone through many changes between the time of Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh. It was Sat Kartar during the time of Guru Nanak, then it was 'Pairi Paina' and then finally to the Fateh we have today. It is entirely up to you whether you wish to greet people with Fateh or with an invocation from Dasam Granth or even one of your own invention but that fact is that an Amritdhari has been told to greet fellow Sikhs with the fateh.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[Niranjana]

Sardar Bikramjit Singh,

VahegurooJeeKaaKhalsa!

VahegurooJeeKeeFateh!

Thanks for your comments and for verificaiton of the changing status of the Sikh Greeting from the time of Guroo Nanak Dev Ji onwards.

Just to clarify, I am fully aware of the instruction for Amritdharis to greet other fellow Sikhs with the Fateh and in no way am arguing against this, however it still stands to reason that it is interesting why the invocation/salutation to SriMahaLaskhmiJi or SriBhagauteeJee should warrant the abuse rendered towards my person by the Sardarni Sahiba.

As per greetings, if one reads my posts again, when addressing fellow Sikhs the Fateh is invariably used, the invocation in this instance is perhaps better compared to a written piece beginning with EkOngKarSatGurPrashad or other similiar 'Sikh' invocations/salutations.

Anyhow, Sardar Sahib, as indicated earlier, I appreciate your asking me of the use of this invocation and to cut a long story short, I consider that we are essentially on the same page regarding the use of the Fateh when 'greeting' other 'Sikhs', my concern is simply aired at the outbreak on part of the Sardarni Sahiba and that such behaviour has been allowed to remain on this forum unnoticed.

Gur Fateh!

[Summeet Kaur]

I find it really sad that we are so closed-minded and get upset when a Gursikh uses such loving lines from Gurdev Pita jee's Bani...

This reminds me of the sad time people used to accuse 'Sadh Sangat' (Dodra Sangat) of replacing 'Dhan Guroo Nanak' with fateh. Do we really have nothing else to discuss??

..teree JAI JAI Kaar..

vaheguroo jee ka khalsa..vaheguroo jee kee fateh..

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Niranjana

Thanks for the reply. I was curious of your reason for writing this and to be totally frank I still don't understand your reason. You state that you just used it in a manner similar to the way invocations are used on other written pieces. I have noticed a trend amongst a small number of people who try to avoid using the accepted greetings or invocations and try to be 'trendy'. Perhaps to show off how much knowledege the possess. At other places some 'trendsetters' use Jai Bajrang Bali aping the Hindus. I am not saying that you are trying to do so but that was the reason for my asking the question.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[Niranjana]

Sardar Bikramjit Singh,

VahegurooJeeKaaKhalsa!

VahegurooJeeKeeFateh!

Thanks for clarifying your position as per your ongoing enquiry, although given our previous exchanges, I must be honest and state that the motivation behind your question was clear from outset, however I appreciate your courtesy in observing basic protocol when inquiring further. I again would like to repeat my assertion that I in no way am challenging the Fateh of the Khalsa and nor am I intending to replace it with anything else...

...however, I do find at times, just as you do, a small number of people (often from variously opposing camps) who in the event of encountering something a little different to their own understanding of trends and accepted behaviour, the in assumption that only they hold and practice the ‘Tat Gurmat Maryada’ see fit to jump to conclusions and embark on effective witch hunts targeting any minute detail to begin attacking in essence their own kinsman...the example provided by Summeet Kaur is a case in point...and indeed others on this thread indicate accordingly...

...Sardar Sahib, I thank you for acknowledging me as apart from what you described as ‘trendsetters’ and ‘aping Hindus’ (a nice pun on the words I may add!), nonetheless I must repeat my concern over the key points arising from this thread concerning Bhai Mani Singh –the subject that appears to have been ignored by essentially two matters –one of which, we can as sensible people conclude, if discussed further would simply be flogging a dead horse, since no one is intending to disown, replace or modify the Fateh, the other and more seriously is again addressed to the

Moderators:-

It has been over 48 hours that the comments of the Sardarni Sahiba have been allowed to remain on this forum unchecked and this particular thread diverted significantly from the topic it should be addressing (Bhai Mani Singh and his collation of various banis).

In view of this, I will bring to a close any personal contributions (as they are proving to be of no real added-value for the purposes of the topic seeing that the items of actual concern are ignored and the condoned behaviour of pasting accusations appears to be more accepted), I am happy as always to discuss matters with Sardar Bikramjit Singh via pm if he so desires, however the issues I raised in my earlier post concerning acceptable behaviour and protocol for a forum of this nature are clearly proving to be correct given the silence on part of both the moderators and the Sardarni Sahiba with regard to her insulting and unfounded outburst.

Gur Fateh!

Mod Note: The 'out of line' comment was taken out yesterday afternoon/evening (U.S. Time). We kept this discussion without moderation purely so you could share your thoughts with the sangat, and explain what SriMahaLaxmi Jee Sahai means, etc. It is indeed disappointing that we could not do that. I ask that the sangat please keep on the topic of Bhai Mani Singh, or we will be forced to close this discussion. Please show some level of respect and courtesy. -8