Army: forced or free will?

[Deep Singh]

Online Saad Sangat Jee,

i have philosophy class and an interesting question came forword.

Let us say that you are part of a military force. the rulers of the country want the army to go to a military operation. and you are part of the division that is sent. you find out that your mission is to kill innocent people, let us say who want freedom...(just like Khalistan Singhs and their families). As part of the force you HAVE to follow the orders and kill them. however your moral says that it is WRONG. but if you do not follow the orders; you know that you will be courtmarsheled when you come home...probably sent to prison or maybe hanged accoused of being a kadaar. What do you do?

for thoughts: this is VERY realistic as we know that some of this happens in india too. this shows that FORCED MILITARY is wrong, as a person is forced to do something he knows is wrong. he joined the military to defend his nation not to kill innocent ppl. what do you guys think? what should he do?

and my reason for asking you this question: should we have such a FORCED military in Khalistan? or should their be other solutions: for exp. i thought of this one myself: that everyone has a 3-5 years military training period alongside his/her education..this makes the person able to defend the nation. the person is expert in one of the fields...so anytime he/she can take a weapon and join the military. SECONDLY, when an emmergency occurs the state administration asks for freely willing soldiars who would fight in this or that conflict....and if your moral says that it is right to fight you join the division, if not you stay home....remember it is not kadaari to say that we do not want to fight

as the example above shows. in this way no person is forced to do anything, and if the nation is charged of commiting crimes against humanity the person is SELF responsible for what he/she did. this can be illustrated in the iraq war. were the soldiars sent there willing to fight the iraqis or were they forced? if so, are THEY themselves responsible of killing 10 000 iraqi civilians? they had the guns, at the last moment they knew that someone would die if they pull the drigger....

[probably the nation also need an elite troop that is always there for emmergencies..?]

think over this jee,

i would like your feedback

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

The greatest thing about the Khalsa was that no one who didn't want to be there was there. It was comprised of only those who wished to fight and die for the Guru. That is also what made it so strong!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Militaries have been created from the beginning of time to enforce one person's will over another. The ancient Greeks fought wars over the rights to control trade, profits etc. The ancient Romans had armies to accumulate wealth by conquering lands. The Mughals had armies imposing their will upon territories. Throughout history armies have been created for such vices. Money, power, and thus greed have been the motivating factors behind keeping an armed military. Christian crusades were motivated by religion but as evidence shows this was hardly the foundation of these "religious" crusades.

So on to your question which I am taking as: a person's moral obligation compared to a person's military obligation, and by person I mean someone who is a member of a certain army.

This is very complex issue which is more complex than may appear at first because as Sikhs, and after seeing the events of 1984 where such a moral obligation was questioned and acted upon, we may feel like we know the answer. Most would say that moral obligation is supreme and overrides any miliatry obligation. I am part of this group because my view is biased, as i mentioned previously because of the incident of Sikhs in the Indian Army(Dharmee Faujis) leaving their posts in reaction to Operation Bluestar.

First of all one needs to look at the moral obligations of one's nation's government. If the government we wish to serve by joining it's military is a moral one, then may be inclined to join an army which represents that government. If the government has strong morals which are in line with one's own morals then chances are good that any military confli

ct one may be in will probably be a morally correct one. However, if the government is morally inept, well then by enlisting in such a government's army is just begging to be part of some immoral military campaign. This is illustrated by some Iraqis who enlisted into Saddam Hussein's army. The killing of Kurds was very immoral and I'm sure the people who joined Saddams army shared the morals of their leaders. So this leads to the conclusion that if one is joining a military of a nation, then that nation's actions and morals become representative of one's own morals and actions. If one's morals are strong enough then even a court martial or death cannot shake an individual. When we start compromising our morals then we are slaves of society and lose all qualities which define individuality.

Ony Guru's fauj, panth guru guru khalsa ji is an army which serves for all mankind and not for any power or wealth. Only this army has displayed the honor and valor which is claimed by all armies of the world.

peace.

[Deep Singh]

thanks veerjis

i likes your answars..

So you guys agree that the concept of Army under Khalsa Raaj is 'free will' and following the morals not the orders of the leaders?

[AK-47]

Well one would hope that the generals and leaders of the khalsa fauj would be guys with some serious skills in the battlefield but also with SOME SERIOUS bhagti too!

in that case they shouldnt eneter a non-ethical battle, also correct me if im wrong, but the older armies used to meet at harimandir sahib/akal takhat and have a sarbat khalsa meeting, and then take hukumnama before taking any sort of planned action.

Maybe thats idealistic, but there you go!

I also think that the sikhs should have to do a minimum number of years of military service, training and actively protecting the gurdwara's around the world. At least it would stop us from getting lazy, i suppose that however can only happen once we get our freedom.

[Deep Singh]

jee AK-47 bhaji

that is the idea that EVERY Sikh should have a 3-5 years period military training (offcourse it could be also protection of Gurdwareh)...it will change the lifestyle!

[Balait_da_Sher]

Deh Shiva // mohe eh/Shubh Karman te Kabhu na taron / Na daron ari  so jab jai laron/ Niche Kar aapni jeet karon."

The above will be the core of Khalsa army. And anyone with such belief will only do what is rite.