New Forum Rule

[Jaspaul Singh]

Vaaheguruuu ji ka khalsa, Vaheguruu ji ki fatehh

(Admin - please keep this up for discussion)

So i happen to come across a new rule on the forum about bumping threads/posting links to new updates on sites !

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=33532

Yes this is a discussion board and by bumping new updates on other SIKHI sites is not "advertising". It is Sevaa. Sangat want to know where the NEW keertan links going up on sites. They want to know where the videos/pics are up. Any new articles that are up on other sites. Once a month !? Are you kidding?? Theres keertans happening every week. I think its the sangats right to know updates on an external website, whenever the updates come. This is a forum to access such information. A forum is neutral base for access to ALL other sikhi links/sites. Implacing this rule is bringing in much unneccessary bias.

There is nothing wrong with 'bumping' a thread. Not everyone reads the thread at a specific time. Im sure EVERYONE on this forum has been guilty of putting the words 'bump' in a thread. Its only to get the word out, again, on a SIKHI matter let it be updates or an event coming up.

This 'rule' is not a solution to the problems that you guys are having.

If there is an overflow of threads being made, talk to that specific individual. Im sure its not everyone but probably a few who make 10 threads a day about certain updates. I would like to bring this out cuz i am one person that enjoys having updates daily of new keertan/video/article updates on sites. There are many individuals on this forum that are committed to seva of posting up updates on sikhi audio/video etx.. do not take this away.

Just my personal views... sangat needs to know about this and able to discuss... please share your views :s

[Balait_da_Sher]

The rules are made by admins, they are not set in stone and are open for discussions such as this. Here is my point of view.

A week or two week is not a long period of time, even a month is not. As you said that events happen weekly, then how bad is it to collate two week or month of event material and post as a single update on the forum. Half of the time we end up with people, just bumping up sites and blogs and the topics that are on top are just event updates to external sites, which just had one article posted or few files uploaded.

The rule doesnt and shouldnt prevent other sikh webmasters to post updates to their sites, all we ask for is that people respect this forum and not continously keep posting about their site if they just added one item or two.

As for the sangat needs to know, most of the sangat probably has already visited your site after you update it, the rest can find out about these in the monthly updates.

Monthly updates to me make more sense as people can simply get all info about what the updates to the site were for that month. Anything else, is yes simply advertising.

[Matheen]

How is providing a link to newly posted Kirtan/Katha advertising? Especially since it's free. Secondly, bumping a post/thread about upcoming events serves to remind Sangat to attend if they can. This is especially useful to people like myself who don't have many other sources of information regarding Kirtan or events at Gurudware.

[Akaali]

Agree with Balait, there are many who come on SS to take traffic to their new message board or website, but they don't have a base, whereas SS has over 7 years of experience behind it as you can see by the amount of topics/posts, so the decision was made to bring traffic to the site instead of take it to other sites, also I'll regurgitate myself, this is a discussion board not an advertising board and monthly updates are more than enough.

[Balait_da_Sher]

How is providing a link to newly posted Kirtan/Katha advertising?

Guys the rule isnt talking about bumping events. The rule is talking about posting every single update to other sites as they happen. All we suggested is that, to put those updates on sikhsangat.com forum once and all together. This way users will know exactly what new content has come on the site in question for that month.

Events you can bump all you like within reason.

Think of it this way

2 blogs, each site admin posts an article every week.

Then after they post each article they bump their site update thread with the link to the article. Thats 8 bumps / month from both sites.

Instead they can just post all 4 links to new articles at the end of the month in one post.

[Jaspaul Singh]

Thanks for your points everyone.

I will stick with my reasoning to believe that this rule will not help the 'problems'.

Ok what about kirtan audio updates? Usually when a kirtan/raensbayee/smaagam happens, sangat are looking for recordings a few days after the program...

For example, lets take a site, akj.org ...

If they put a smaagam/raensbayee recordings and a sevadaars posts the update here, and a week later another smaagam is available up online their, and they would like to post the update here for sangat to know... what is wrong here ?? Its not advertising, its clearly notifying sangat of keertan recordings. Maybe this will limit the amount of posts labelled "when is so and so keertan recording going to be up online" ...

I agree with the event points. That shud be limited.

"so the decision was made to bring traffic to the site instead of take it to other sites" ......... i dun know what to say to this... question arrises why !? this is no business that we are doing... this is seva as long its in accordance to sikhi.

[Balait_da_Sher]

If they put a smaagam/raensbayee recordings and a sevadaars posts the update here, and a week later another smaagam is available up online their, and they would like to post the update here for sangat to know... what is wrong here ??

I think you are missing the point again. Usually when there is an event topic ( typically a new topic is posted per event), logically the audio/pictures should be posted in that topic after the event has happned. No one is asking you to stop doing that. Even then, i would prefere if it was all done as one single update per smaagam.

The rule is about normal site updates where people have sites which are regularly updated but the frequency of updates is less than a week and the type of updates are minor.

Thats my reasoning for the support for the rule. I do not support it for traffic or any other reasons, i support it because this is a discussion forum and these kind of topics can not be discussed, so they should serve as an information only topics.

[Akaali]

......... i dun know what to say to this... question arrises why !? this is no business that we are doing... this is seva as long its in accordance to sikhi.

Thats not the only reason, its just one among many. I shouldn't of even posted that because it really won't take anyone away from SS in the first place because of the amount of vichaar and frequency of discussion on the board guru kirpaa naal. The main issue is that too many topics are springing up and too many people are posting updates to their sites frequently, and gursikhee, gurbaaNee, and history topics are nowhere to be seen, old members remember on SS there was pure inspiration that helped bring so many into Sikhi including myself, that's the real sikhi we should be advertising not MY website, or MY updates, if guru sahib does kirpaa like he did on SS their websites will also flourish, just keep up your sikhi.

Alot of us don't understand the true meaning of sevaa, I'm not pointing fingures but as a general outlook, we feel like everything we do sikhi related is sevaa, its not. Guru Saaheb says, aap gavaae sevaa kare taa kich paae maan| True sevaa is the example of gursikhs who goto the gurdwara everyday, they wash dishes, clean the shoes of the sangat, collect garbage, sweep/mop the floors, prepare/serve langar, do gursevaa, from the sweat of their brows, thats real sevaa. If we look at praatan singhs/singhnia their dedication/commitment to guru sahib, we are nothing compared to the amount of seva they did on a daily basis.

We do small things like web design or record keertan and upload it and tell ourselves we're doing sevaa, guru saaheb says, satgur kee sevaa gaakhree sir deejai aap gavaae| The best form of seva of sangat is doing the above, not online, because then it becomes like "I" have to advertise MY SITE.

Bottom line, there isn't a need to advertise all will happen with the kirpaa of akaal purkh.

A bit off topic, but I felt I had to share that. Bhul chuk muaaf.

[Jaspaul Singh]

We do small things like web design or record keertan and upload it and tell ourselves we're doing sevaa, guru saaheb says, satgur kee sevaa gaakhree sir deejai aap gavaae| The best form of seva of sangat is doing the above, not online, because then it becomes like "I" have to advertise MY SITE.

Theres also another thing known as 'gupt' seva. One does not know nothing about another person and the amount of 'seva' that person does. Who knows what state that person is at. They can be doing recording seva and other in the FOREFRONT and in the background doing all that seva you have listed in the background, in gupt. Im not talking about myself.. I am a paapi, vud gunayghaar... forever at the feet at those gursikhs who live a life of gursikhi daily ....

I think you are missing the point again. Usually when there is an event topic ( typically a new topic is posted per event), logically the audio/pictures should be posted in that topic after the event has happned. No one is asking you to stop doing that. Even then, i would prefere if it was all done as one single update per smaagam.

The rule is about normal site updates where people have sites which are regularly updated but the frequency of updates is less than a week and the type of updates are minor.

Thats my reasoning for the support for the rule. I do not support it for traffic or any other reasons, i support it because this is a discussion forum and these kind of topics can not be discussed, so they should serve as an information only topics.

I still think the rules kinda harsh. Its all good.

[japmans]

While i agree with the rule, I disagree with the way this discussion has gone. I'm in no position to be critical, but I do think it's unfair to suggest that recording/uploading is NOT seva.

someone suggested that the true seva are the ones that noone knows about... i'll agree... but that doesn't mean that other seva isn't true... that's quite the blanket statement... i mean, everyone knows (or knew at the time) the name of the man who arranged for 150 saroops to be brought from india to toronto, and he chartered a plane and all to make sure proper respect was given.... does that mean his seva is any less? I don't think so... I'm just saying, i would HOPE that recorders/uploaders aren't doing that just so their name is out there... i think that's a massive accusation, accusing someone of only doing seva so that their name's out there so people say "oh look, xyz singh updated their site"... At the extreme, and in no way am i trying to say that recording is the same thing as sacrificing your life haha... but just pointing out the danger in blanket statements...... everyone knows shaheeds.. it's said that bhai fauja singh did a seva to the panth by taking care of the nirankari guru.... but everyone knows who he is... you can't say that since people know his name, therefore it's not seva... blanket statements are dangerous.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't it seems... if you do all the gupt seva and don't say anything about it...then when you do recording seva, you get slammed for not doing enough of the gupt seva.

if you tell the world about your gupt seva, then you get accused of being full of haumai/ego/ahankaar...

I agree though...once a month is plenty in my opinion as well... or at the very least, do the weekly update, but keep it in the multimedia section and not in general section... and then if there's repeat offenders of update threads being updated or started in general, give a warning system and then quality-control the account if they refuse to post in multimedia....

I think it's safe to say that only people who care about updates will click the topic link.... so those people will be willing to take an extra couple seconds to go into the multimedia section to check for updates.

I agree with the fundamental rule and the original motivations regarding discussion being limited in an update topic.

But I have a critical question,somewhat unrelated and it'll probably sound offensive.... but it's not meant to be...

On the issue of "all will happen with Guru Kirpa".... i agree fully... so why is it guru kirpa, or why is the solution "concentrate on your own sikhi and people will come to the site"?

Couldn't it be said "concentrate on your own sikhi and the number of threads about updates will decrease"?

Just throwing it out there... since i'm sure intention (as opposed to longevity) has a lot more to do with Guru bestowing kirpa on someone/something.