Sikh Missionary College

[Surinderjit]

i ehard they think dasam granth is not gurbani...

is this true?

Second, if it is, can anyone give any other colleges that are pro-dasam granth?

[AvnitK]

I gonna go with u ok

yeah plz tell us! :D

[S1ngh]

Yes its true that they don't consider Dasam Granth as our historical scripture written by Guru Gobind Singh sahib ji. They are more leaned toward Scientology (Tom Cruise thingy...)

Some of their stupid arguments are:

1) Baba Deep Singh jee didn't have his head separated from his body.

2) Marriage lavaan issues (like happened in delhi - 2 lavaan boy was ahead and then rest of two.. girl came in front) like hindu marriage.

3) They don't believe in Sakhian and it won't shock me if tomorrow they come up with argument that Panja sahib is nothing but a man made tourist spot.

4) They only recite three bani in morning instead of 5. They don't recite Anand Sahib & Chaupai Sahib as they say these bani are repeated in Rehraas sahib.

Second, if it is, can anyone give any other colleges that are pro-dasam granth?

School of DamDami Taksal (Chowk Mehta)

[Surinderjit]

UIs there a fee for school at damdami taksaal?

[ghorandhar]

Veer Surinderjit jee there are 4 missionary colleges that I am aware of, these are Ludhiana, Ropar, Anandpur and Shahid missionary college Amritsar. Ludiania missionary college has published some translations of the dasam granth. They have also written a book called 'Dasam Granth Darpan'. In that book they have written the history of the dasam granth, which writers are for and against the dasam granth referencing what bania they do or do not believe in. The last page can be summarised by the following: that the Panth should get all scholars together and come to a decision, whatever the Akal Takhat and the panth decides, everyone should follow that decision and unite. They also say that until that decision is made, people will continue to mislead the sangat by saying that portions of the Dasam granth saying guru jee worshipped Moortis and Hindu avtars, but once the decision is made the arguing should stop.

Someone asked this question in the Sikh Phulwari a few years back, the response was that its for the panth to make a decision So there position seems simple to me, they have translated the dasam granth and will only follow the panths decision, not no jhata or particular individual. People like Ghagga were banned from publishing his articles way before he became known to the panth.

If you want to learn Gurbani viakaran (grammar) and the purpose of words having different spellings, for example why Nanak is spelt in different ways or how dukh can have different meanings depending on the spelling, I suggest Principle Baljeet Singh of Ropar College. The other Colleges are also good for viakaran, but personally listening to Bhai Baljeets khata and meeting him, I was really impressed. The Anandpur college is near the gurdwara where Guru Tegh Bahadur jees head was bought which is in the Anandpur city. From that gurdwara someone will direct you. I dont know much about the Shahid missionary college other than it is run by the SGPC and was the first missionary college ever. They have had principles such as Bhai Ganga Singh and Prof Sahib Singh. But like I said I dont no much about them. I have a friend from Ludhiana who studyed at the college and I no they are not against the dasam granth. The best thing to do is go there and check it out, most people have not and will just make presumptions.

If you are near Phagwara, there is a Singh there who was head granthi of Anandpur Sahib for a few months, but he did not last long because he was installing the maryada and would catch granthis asleep who should have been doing akhand path. He goes abroad alot, but spends alot of time doing camps and getting people into Sikhi. His name is Ranjoadh Singh and is really chardi kala, he was born into a Hindu family but became a Sikh and was beaten badly by his family, he tied to a tree and left for dead. He was also badly beaten in 84 and remains active in the sangat. He was on panthic.org last year when he and the sangat was protesting against Ashutosh coming to Phagwara, all the Singhs were beaten by the government. Ranjoadh Singh studied in the same year as pinderpal Singh. He wears a round dastar and because of this, people dont realise he studyed at the missionary school, so alot of people think he is taksali. It quite funny how people look at the persons appearance and make conclusions.

Regarding the lavan, the missionary college books teach the panthic rehit maryada and do not teach that the bibi does 2 lavan in front. Some person called Veer Bupinder Singh who has nothing to do with the missionary college and has his own organisation (http://www.thelivingtreasure.com/) was involved in that. There is a guy called Surjit Singh missionary who lives in Delhi, he writes all kinds of stuff which neither the missionary college nor me personally accept. you can find his articles online, he writes all kinds of things which I feel are wrong. He was also present at this lavan programme in Delhi and I would not be suprised after reading his articles that he had something to do with this.

Regarding Baba Deep Singh jee, there is nothing in the Ludhiana Sikh missioanry college book on Baba Deep Singh jee to suggest his head did not come of. Every person puts particular emphasis on the sources they like the most. What we have to do is try to look at which source is most correct. For example, D.r Ganda Singh jees book on Banda Singh Bahadur proves from eye witness accounts that Banda Singh jee had his eyes ripped out, feet and arms cut, he had his skin pierced with hot metal rods and was cut limb by limb. Rantan Singh Banghu says he died by being dragged by an elephant. giani gian Singh says he did not even become shahid, rather he escaped and fled to Kashmir. So the only way to find the right answer is to do research. I personally believe baba Deep Sngh jees head was separated from his body.

The Colleges only follow the Panthic Sikh rehit mayada which is passed by the Akal Takhat and not an individual. It clearly says that 3 bani should be recited in the morning. However, if you want to read more, Im sure no one is putting a gun to your head. Well I hope not.

I have not studied at the missionary college, but I know people that have. I like the colleges because they believe in the Khalsa Panth, the rest of us follow what we like at the expense of the very notion of 'Panth'. If you live in the US, there is a person called giani Amarjit Singh jee, he has lived in New York for the past few years, he also studyed in the same year as pinderpal Singh. He is a good person to learn of and when I met him a few years ago he frequently qouted from the Dasam Granth. He did Khata on Vaisakhi that Guru Gobind Singh jee took the panj piyaras heads off on the gurdwara stage and proved from various sources that guru jee did not cut goats heads off and strongly believes in Baba Deep Singh jee fighting with his head separated from his body.

Hope this helps.

[Surinderjit]

thank ghoranadar.. anyone else with more info, feel free to post.

BTW, i was going to go Ludhianaa, but i like Ropar right now... thank you ji

[guptveer1469]

go ropar bro

i heard its one of best

many neglected sikh tribes do get training there

BOLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY SOOOOO NIHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

[V]

1) Baba Deep Singh jee didn't have his head separated from his body.

2) Marriage lavaan issues (like happened in delhi - 2 lavaan boy was ahead and then rest of two.. girl came in front) like hindu marriage.

3) They don't believe in Sakhian and it won't shock me if tomorrow they come up with argument that Panja sahib is nothing but a man made tourist spot.

4) They only recite three bani in morning instead of 5. They don't recite Anand Sahib & Chaupai Sahib as they say these bani are repeated in Rehraas sahib.

S1ngh; I'm shocked over your comments about an organisation which is STRICTLY following the Akal Thakhats panthic maryada - isn't that, what you were advocating a few posts ago (regarding a Hukamnama issued by the Akal Thakhat on homosexuality.)

1 - Without getting into too much discussion. I'm neither accepting, nor rejecting what happened to Baba Deep Singh Ji; but is there any historic reference that tells us that this happened to Baba Deep Singh Ji at all. My respect to Baba Deep Singh Ji isn't limited to the fact that he (might have) fought headless - I look at the amount of seva he did. Yes Sikh chronicals do put much emphasis on it - but is there any historic reference? (I'm asking this since I haven't come across any as such; and I'm not questioning there is - but as far as I'm aware, there is none.) I'm not rejecting this happened; I'm simply asking out of curiosity if there is any such.

2- As Ghorandhar Ver ji cleared out - this isn’t anything the missionary collages are advocating, since they are strict followers of the Akal Thakhats Rehit maryada - and respond to every question in their Sikh phulwari based on the Panthic Maryada.

3- No, as I see it, it's not that they don't believe in the life stories of the Gurus- it's just that they (rightly) demand historic reference that points towards something. There are many made up sakhis (many by the such as Chaman lal). Just read the "puaratan Janamsakhis" of the Gurus, written not more than 100 years after the Guru- you'll be disgusted. Everything needs to be taken with a pinch (karchi?) of salt. The only thing that can be trusted blindly is Gurbani. Since they know that Gurbani is the ultimate litmus test - they use GURBANI as their scale to see if something is according to Gurmat or not. It's not about rejecting Sakhis; it's about putting authentic sources like Bhai Gurdas Ji, and Gurbani - which weight a much more than sakhis.

4- Again this is an issue that the Akal Thakhat has ordered - they're simply following akal thakhat. if Akal Thakhats changes its maryada they will BLINDLY follow - because they are the ONLY ones who TRULY believe in the superiority of the orders of the Akal Thakhat. Most other organisations CLAIM to follow it. They use Akal Thakhats hukamnamas when it suits them; but don't care less when theres other issues that they don't agree with. Double standard.

Also, out of curiosity - do you know of any historic reference that mentions the last two banis at all? As far as I'm aware the closest we get to the concept of nitnem is Bhai Nand Lal Ji's "prashan uttar"; where he mentions Jap and Jaap (i.e Jap Ji Sahib and Jaap Sahib.) I have yet to find any sources mentioning Anand Sahib and Chaupie Sahib as a MANDATORY nitnem. I'm not saying there aren't ANY such references; I'm just saying I haven't found them - if you know of any, please correct me.

Am I saying you shouldn't read the banis? No; All I'm saying is that - read as much as you want - but don't increase the mandatory ones - for others. It's not an issue of "shortening the nitnem to make it take less time" as some people absurdly claim. It's about historic reference. There is, as far as I'm aware, none to support anything else being mandatory. Also; read as much bani as you can - but don't force others to read more than the basic mandatory.

Let's not have double standards- either we believe in the superiority of the Akal Thakhat or we don't. We can't eat the laddo and still keep it. We all know that the Akal Thakhat and SGPC of yore are completely different from the one of today; how those of the past made many sacrifices for a maryada to be drafted at all.

Sorry for diverting the topic completely.

Yes Sunny, you are right, the missionaries are doing a LOT in terms of increasing the knowledge about these forgotten tribes; and are doing a lot to support them and get them back into Sikhi :D

[S1ngh]

Veerjee,

Akal Takht/SGPC till today never gave any recommendation to Sikh Missionary College (LDH). Since SMC is pretty big institution and they have manpower and so many courses but how come they never got the recommendation from SGPC. As speaking of SGPC, they are corrupt and it makes the task of recommendation much easier..right? Not very long time, someone did tried to do work under the table, thru safarish and tried to get the recognition status given by SGPC.. but once the issue got out in public, mostly panthic circle went against and it never happened. (I can give full details on that).

I am against the preachings of Sikh Missionary college BUT not against the students of that college as I have many local friends who went thru that school and they are came out good. We also have great personalities like Bhai Pinderpal Singh and so on who are making differences around the world but however majority of them gets twisted and spread wrong prachar.

Regarding the Baba Deep Singh jee issue, I met with the descendant of Baba deep Singh jee in India few years ago and that’s when it was mentioned to me that there are some who are making big issue out of this for the past few years. I will change my word and will praise SMC if and ONLY if they ever publicly support the claim that baba deep singh jee fought bravely headless to keep the promise he made before the fight. I am 100% sure that they will never agree on this and like always they will say.. “It was just a small cut and scientifically its not possible to fight without head.” This is one issue and there are many like this going on back and forth.

Regarding the respecting the authority of Akal Takh Hukamnamay, they are not very good in respecting it. When Akal Takht order came out to outcast Kala Afghana, gurtej (IAS), SMC and they were in the same bed. When Akal Takht order came to boycott Spokesman editor… SMC still is huge fan of that newspaper and blindly support such stooges. Now the case of Darshan Singh.. they are with him. Did they ever come out in public and staged protest against kala Afghana, spokesman and others?

I am not saying anything without any reasons or someone told me on internet or read it on some tabloid newspaper. I had endless arguments with such ppl both in India and in California.

Once a good friend of mine visited me in amritsar and we went to Darbar Sahib.. While sitting in parkarma, he started talking about many stuff.. He told me why ppl are doing parkarma clock-wise.. why not counter clock wise, why they do this or that.. He was asking so many silly questions and was answering them as well.. I just sat there and was thinking.. when im gonna go home…

[V]

So by the same logic, Am I a Muslim because I went to an Interfaith meeting held at a mosque and talked about Sikhism?? I was also presented with a set of books including the Quran translations...???

Just because some Sikhs were present at an event where there's pictures of Krishna or Shiv, doesn't make them RSS!!

Fair point raised. But should these Panthic leaders not have shown their concern of i.e. having chairs in the Darbar? No them just attending an event with a picture of Krishna of Shiv; but this is definitely an issue of disrespect to Mahraj, who seems to be parkash on the event - as panthic leader they must first and foremost express their concern over the disrespect, because as far as I'm aware; they're Sikhs FIRST and FOREMOST - and then guests.

As far as I'm concerned this wasn't an interfaith meeting held at a mosque; but a meeting held by and organization which is KNOWN to be distorting Sikhs history, misrepresenting the Sikh faith in India. In this context you cannot compare this organization to an interfaith meeting held at a mosque.

Would Baba Jarnail Singh Ji attend such an event?